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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:52 am

We won't be up against the sheep for a fair few seasons yet.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:57 am

If Bury go pop before the fixtures are announced, I don't see why clubs can't be reprieved or prompted to make up the numbers.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby SINA STAG » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:37 am

I can't see what is hard to understand it's simple written in the Queens English......

For the thickos on here......

If Bury fail to play their games next season

County will still be playing NON LEAGUE FOOTBALL

Simple......
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:53 am

Don't forget Sina that there are always exceptions to the rules :lol:

I won't be satisfied until there is a stake through the heart and the EFL 2019-2010 kicks off.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:34 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:If Bury go pop before the fixtures are announced, I don't see why clubs can't be reprieved or prompted to make up the numbers.


That would just be a nightmare of epic proportions to sort out.

If we were to be promoted then Colchester can argue they should have been in the play offs. Tranmere would have played Newport in the semis. etc etc etc
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Johnny Rotten » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:21 am

It impacts not upon the EFL however with Gateshead relegated to National League North (as a team unable to compete or complete their fixtures next season) Aldershot receive a reprieve in the National League and no longer relegated.

Scenario different to the Bury situation of course and perhaps tenuous in associating the two but in amongst the discussion of what happens to Bury/Counteh etc I thought I'd share

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:31 am

That is entirely different as Gateshead were relegated and we are talking about Bury going out of existence.

The number of conference clubs hasn't changed just the divisions they play in. The maths are simple for them where as the league would be a club short and that club would be a league one club. You can't use the same solution.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:13 am

SINA STAG wrote:I can't see what is hard to understand it's simple written in the Queens English......

For the thickos on here......

If Bury fail to play their games next season

County will still be playing NON LEAGUE FOOTBALL

Simple......


correct.... why is this so hard for people to grasp?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bellwhiff » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:15 am

Martin Shaw wrote:
NorthLondonStag wrote:Here’s the Rules:

" 12.2 Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons):

12.2.3 …. during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.”

So If Bury cease to exist before the start of next season, then the number of relegation places from League 1 (the Division in which Bury would have played but for its cessation of membership) shall be reduced by one. League Two (the relevant Division for these purposes) will operate with 23 clubs.

So the fourth bottom team in League 1 gets to stay in League 1 and League 2 has only 23 clubs.

So we get one less game for our season tickets!

No.
The rules say "the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.” Here the "relevant" Division (ie. "the Division in which a Club would have played") is League One, not League Two.
League One would therefore operate with 23 clubs, (and the number of relegation places from League One would be reduced by one).


Clearly the Conference operate under different rules as Aldershot have been reprieved from relegation after Gateshead were punished.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:01 am

bellwhiff wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
NorthLondonStag wrote:Here’s the Rules:

" 12.2 Cessation of membership. If a Club (or Clubs) ceases to be a member of The League for any reason (including, without limitation, pursuant to Article 4 of the Articles of Association or by way of relegation or expulsion for disciplinary reasons):

12.2.3 …. during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.”

So If Bury cease to exist before the start of next season, then the number of relegation places from League 1 (the Division in which Bury would have played but for its cessation of membership) shall be reduced by one. League Two (the relevant Division for these purposes) will operate with 23 clubs.

So the fourth bottom team in League 1 gets to stay in League 1 and League 2 has only 23 clubs.

So we get one less game for our season tickets!

No.
The rules say "the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs.” Here the "relevant" Division (ie. "the Division in which a Club would have played") is League One, not League Two.
League One would therefore operate with 23 clubs, (and the number of relegation places from League One would be reduced by one).


Clearly the Conference operate under different rules as Aldershot have been reprieved from relegation after Gateshead were punished.

I think it was very obvious that Aldershot were going to be reprieved at the Conference "AGM cup". It was in line with what has happened previously in the Conference.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:30 am

The Conference and English Football League are two entirely separate, but intertwined by promotion/ relegation completions. Two differing sets of criteria need to be met for participating in each relevant competition.

Why all the confusion? More importantly focus on the bigger picture i.e. the stranglehold some competitions have over and have ruined their relevant national leagues and football in general. Look at how the Premier League voted against reviewing European football competition through worrying about their tv deal.

Revolution my friends, we all need to play our part to save football as a whole.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:16 pm

Bury to make 10-12 employees redundant and staff are accused by the new owner Steve Dale (SD2) of trying to extort money from the club by insisting on being paid their wages instead of just leaving and finding jobs elsewhere!!

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/177020 ... ef=mr&lp=3

Steve Dale: "If you read my past statements I indeed made clear that staff will be let go as we are overstaffed. That’s just commercial sense. What you should be asking is, these staff who are purporting to love the club, why didn’t they just go and find other jobs? But no, they are trying to extort money from the club."
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:39 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Bury to make 10-12 employees redundant and staff are accused by the new owner Steve Dale (SD2) of trying to extort money from the club by insisting on being paid their wages instead of just leaving and finding jobs elsewhere!!

https://www.burytimes.co.uk/news/177020 ... ef=mr&lp=3

Steve Dale: "If you read my past statements I indeed made clear that staff will be let go as we are overstaffed. That’s just commercial sense. What you should be asking is, these staff who are purporting to love the club, why didn’t they just go and find other jobs? But no, they are trying to extort money from the club."



Selfish individuals, obviously! Mr Dale seems to be a “character”
true fans don’t abandon their club when things don’t go well
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Johnny Rotten » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:58 am

He has a point to be fair although maybe his frustration and stress of the situation has taken over and he should think about the words he uses. His point comes over a little pointedly and aggressive.

Knowing the clubs predicament financially if I were an employee Id perhaps look elsewhere and in their defence maybe they have been but merely not found appropriate alternative employment elsewhere hence why they still work at Bury FC?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby oldweststander » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:13 am

Come on guys, these employees are owed wages, unpaid for some time, why should they turn their backs and walk away when jobs are not that easy to find.
I know from experience, to walk away from work volunterily is considered by the DWP to be deliberately rendering yourself unemployed and therefore not eligable for any benefits for about 12 weeks.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Chander Lear » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:47 am

oldweststander wrote:Come on guys, these employees are owed wages, unpaid for some time, why should they turn their backs and walk away when jobs are not that easy to find.
I know from experience, to walk away from work volunterily is considered by the DWP to be deliberately rendering yourself unemployed and therefore not eligable for any benefits for about 12 weeks.


Agree.

Just because you have a love for a club, the bills still need to be paid. Can't blame the staff for bad staffing management.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:49 am

Chander Lear wrote:
oldweststander wrote:Come on guys, these employees are owed wages, unpaid for some time, why should they turn their backs and walk away when jobs are not that easy to find.
I know from experience, to walk away from work volunterily is considered by the DWP to be deliberately rendering yourself unemployed and therefore not eligable for any benefits for about 12 weeks.


Agree.

Just because you have a love for a club, the bills still need to be paid. Can't blame the staff for bad staffing management.


Agree entirely. They were offered a position and accepted. It is the responsibility of the employer to fulfil their contractual obligation.

I foresee another uprising!!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby BoughtonStag71 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:05 am

Adjourned for another 6 weeks
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Spiritater » Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:43 am

Gnashing of teeth on bedwetters forum now then :lol:
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Marky Mark » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:31 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48761650

Football creditors owed £950k, paid in full out of owners own pocket
Non football creditors owed £6m, including £3.6m, paid 25%

So the owner pays the football creditors off with the 25% he gets back and the club become debt free and 12 points worse off.
Last edited by Marky Mark on Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:32 pm

back down to league 2 for bury then
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby wayno cordiniho » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:11 pm

Marky Mark wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48761650

Football creditors owed £950k, paid in full out of owners own pocket
Non football creditors owed £6m, including £3.6m, paid 25%

So the owner pays the football creditors off with the 25% he gets back and the club become debt free and 12 points worse off.


Just cheating innit really, get up with money you don’t actually have. Only pay 25% of it, gamble that you might stay up. Rinse. Repeat
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:45 pm

"The proposal states that football creditors are owed £950,652 while unsecured creditors are owed £5,982,765, including £3.6m to Dale."

How is Steve Dale owed £3.6 million when he said he would not put any of his own money into the football club? If I were the creditors I would be seriously questioning that debt. Some Bury fans have said that Mr Dale does not have a receptacle in which he can relieve himself.

Bad news for the office staff who will not get their outstanding wages paid to them and the local small businesses who are owed money. I can't see the creditors going for it. They would probably argue that they would receive more money if the club was sold.

This reminds me of Ken Bates and his attempt at a corporate voluntary arrangement ("CVA") at Leeds United. He originally offered 1 pence in the pound to the creditors including HMRC if they supported his CVA which included selling Leeds to an offshore consortium including Bates. The HMRC and other creditors challenged the CVA and forced Ken Bates and the mystery overseas owners he represented to put Leeds into administration and sell the club to the highest bidder. Sealed bids had to be placed with the administrators. The highest bid was from Ken Bates and his off shore consortium and was worth around 53p in the pound to the creditors!!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:56 pm

I'm sure the EFL will be closely scrutinising this CVA. :roll: An Independent Regulator is needed for EFL clubs with a power to intervene and take over the running of football clubs if they do not comply with the rules and end up in a financial mess.

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:59 pm

CVA’s need 75% approval to be allowed. Number of votes depends on the amount of debt for each individual or organisation. HMRC now have a policy to vote against any CVA’s unless they repay 100p in the pound. So if the HMRC debt is more than 25% of the total debt then there is no chance of the CVA getting through.

However a good way around this is to inflate the debt owed to certain individuals.

A good way unless you get caught fiddling the books.

That’s why the administrators need to be totally independent but they really are.
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