Rob wrote:I'm gonna glue myself to the North Stand bogs 'til they get it done.
Rob wrote:I'm gonna glue myself to the North Stand bogs 'til they get it done.
Scothie the Stag wrote:Marky Mark wrote:Rob wrote:Marky Mark wrote:Stag95 wrote:I think we’d get more of an increase than that. Looking at League 1, Burton, Derby, Ipswich, Lincoln, MK, Port Vale, Pompy and Wednesday could all be close to selllouts.
The average attendance of our last season in League One (4,800) was lower than our average attendance last year - that season had QPR, Bristol City, Cardiff, Chesterfield, Notts County, Huddersfield, Barnsley, Peterborough in it. The following season average was 5,200 - so we get a higher attendance when we are doing well in League Two than we do when we dont do well in League One. The following season the average was 4,100.
There are patterns to our attendances (averages):
Doing well in League 2: 4,900 (DF play off season), early 5,000's (03/04 and 21/22)
Doing poorly in League One: 4,800 (2002/3)
Treading water in League 2: 3,000 - 4,000 (2013-2018)
Poor in League 2: 2,800 (relegation season)
Theoretical - middle of the road in League One: 5,800 (doing well +15% like Wycombe)
I can definitely see why we're not adding 2,000+ capacity to an 8,000 capacity stadium at the moment when our average gates have never been more than 60% of it's existing capacity.
Firstly using previous attendance figures is clearly flawed given the unprecedented season ticket sales this summer. Secondly the increase in capacity isn't just for home fans. Thirdly this isn't just about economics, it's about having a 3 sided ground which is an embarrassment to the club. Fourth a new stand will ease congestion in other areas, leading to higher sales in the kiosks. Fifth, grants will help the finances of building a simple safe standing stand, had we done this ten years ago it would probably have paid for itself by now.. Finally, if we have a good season not having done the stand will cost the club hundreds of thousands in lost revenue.
We will be locking home fans out next season if we challenge and must future proof now, sadly it's too late for the coming season.
Rob, these have all been dubunked.
Previous attendance figures are fairly robust, they point to attendance ceilings at almost all levels of where we've been for the last 20+ years. Definitely more robust than hoping and guessing.
Firstly: More season tickets doesn't naturally equate to higher attendances, the only thing it certainly means is more up front cash for the club. How many of the 4,000 season ticket holders didn't attend a match last season? We've never averaged over 5,500 whichever league we've been in in the last 40 years, whether we've sold 0 season tickets or 4,000 season tickets so the additional season tickets are most likely coming from within the existing supporter base. The 1,200 additional season ticket holders wont translate to 1,200 additional supporters, 100 at the most. I'm giving the club less money than I did last season, I'd imagine most are. Some are already talking about sharing season tickets.
Secondly: It doesn't matter who the increased capacity is for if we've never averaged over 5,500 in an 8,000 capacity stadium. Yes we might sell out once or twice, but we might also get 84 away fans. It balances itself out.
Thirdly: Economics doesn't matter if it's someone else's money.
Fourthly: Will spreading existing fans out into more space generate enough additional kiosk income to pay for the extra overheads to run the extra space, not including the £1m+ to build. The current challenges are about crowd management, not capacity.
Fifth: Putting money into developing the Bish 10 years ago would likely have come at the expense of funding promotion out of the conference. Given that our attendances are still in line with what we'd expect them to be v's our league ladder position it is likely that it would still be a liability on our balance sheet, with little incremental benefit, meaning that Clough has less leeway in the transfer market today.
Finally: Having a Bishop St stand would not make hundreds of thousands of additional revenue per season. In League Two it would make no additional revenue as our attendances dont historically increase over above what can already be handled. A good season in League One would increase attendances by around 15%, which would mean additional gate revenue between £100k (worst case) and £400k (best case) - not accounting for what it costs to run it.
I'm not against developing the Bish, I would like it done if only for aesthetic purposes only but it'd be a drain on the finances right now, and I'd rather have a team fighting for success than a mid-table one with a shiny new stand so fans can buy a sausage roll 4 minutes quicker.
Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say, what you're not taking into account is that our season ticket sales have already surpassed around 8 of our home matches from last season. Albeit all season ticket holders, won't attend all matches, I do suspect that alone will bump up our average.
"We've never averaged over 5,500 whichever league we've been in in the last 40 years, whether we've sold 0 season tickets or 4,000 season tickets..."- We don't have that information to go on as we've never sold 4,000 season tickets in modern times - it's an unknown.
I appreciate what you're saying about ceilings, but ceilings are sometimes broken - maybe selling 4,000 season tickets is our equivalent to a house on the street breaking the ceiling price. Look at Lincoln, regularly averaging 2s, 3s and 4s, with the odd 5s, but something just clicked with the cup run and Cowleys and now they're averaging highs 8s and 9s. Maybe Wembley, the atmosphere and Clough can do that for us. It wouldn't surprise me to see us average 6,000 - 6,500 next season (I could well be wrong).
I don't have a strong opinion either way regarding Bishop Street, although I am leaning towards doing it - aesthetically it'd look better and it would make it more accessible and give us ample room to grow. We don't want to ever get to the stage where we are turning away fans on a regular basis. That said, it's not my money!
arsene wengers coat wrote:It's going to be a safe standing terrace. Jr said as much. So waiting to do something better when it's.more justified isn't really a reason. That part of the ground is so constrained anyway.
Do a nice smart terrace, with an integrated TV gantry a and score board. Improve capacity by circa 2500 and improve the atmosphere and the look of the ground. Maybe even integrate the lawn mower garage by the side of the QLE.
Final point - we don't.lnow what the CapEx is so all the talk about what is and isn't VfM is guesswork. Point that no one can argue is we're growing and progressing. So we need the room to expand into. You don't wait to reach capacity then respond, you anticipate, predict and prepare.
Rob wrote:The stand will probably be there for around 50 years plus, I think it will more than pay for itself! Fans often point an accusatory finger at Haslam for not building the stand yet now when we have owners who can easily afford it, some don't want it done. I can't get my head around it!
Anyway, changed my mind on the glue, wouldn't want to give Mark the pleasure and I bet it still stinks over there
Big yella wrote:Rob wrote:The stand will probably be there for around 50 years plus, I think it will more than pay for itself! Fans often point an accusatory finger at Haslam for not building the stand yet now when we have owners who can easily afford it, some don't want it done. I can't get my head around it!
Anyway, changed my mind on the glue, wouldn't want to give Mark the pleasure and I bet it still stinks over there
And fans who love to spend other peoples money.
StagInHucknall wrote:It could be worse you could be stuck with this!
Field Mill is a great little stadium. Some clubs have a lot less. Some don’t even have a club and/or stadium.
Johnny H wrote:If planning permission for Bishop Street Stand doesn't officially go in this season I truly believe it probably never will under JR's reign.
Bare in mind if it was submitted tomorrow it probably will not be built before the start of the 2024-25 season.
These applications take years because the amount of objections from the local residents would be high I imagine.
IMO we will never have a better fan base and paying support than now.....start the ball rolling MTFC !
halifaxstag wrote:StagInHucknall wrote:It could be worse you could be stuck with this!
Field Mill is a great little stadium. Some clubs have a lot less. Some don’t even have a club and/or stadium.
Or this.
https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-aeria ... 81293.html
Nearly a FL ground. Withdean was only ever a stopgap for Brighton due to more dodgy owners, although they did play there for 11 seasons
Grimsby fan1984 wrote:I can safely say as a neutral you will beat your average attendance from last season no doubt with those numbers. What's the away allocation these days? We should bring a fair few
Grimsby fan1984 wrote:I can safely say as a neutral you will beat your average attendance from last season no doubt with those numbers. What's the away allocation these days? We should bring a fair few
adamstag wrote:Grimsby fan1984 wrote:I can safely say as a neutral you will beat your average attendance from last season no doubt with those numbers. What's the away allocation these days? We should bring a fair few
If you bring over 1000 just before christmas notts police will have about 200 on duty, horses helicopters and probably several tanks in reserve.
Sneag wrote:Johnny H wrote:If planning permission for Bishop Street Stand doesn't officially go in this season I truly believe it probably never will under JR's reign.
Bare in mind if it was submitted tomorrow it probably will not be built before the start of the 2024-25 season.
These applications take years because the amount of objections from the local residents would be high I imagine.
IMO we will never have a better fan base and paying support than now.....start the ball rolling MTFC !
As long as the roof line isn't higher than the existing roof line, would planning be that slow? It's been in use as a football stand since 1732 so there is no change of use. The only material change would be any new construction between the end of the existing structure & QLE, and that is the blank side (no windows) of the gym. So no grounds for objection there. .
arsene wengers coat wrote:It's going to be a safe standing terrace. Jr said as much. So waiting to do something better when it's.more justified isn't really a reason. That part of the ground is so constrained anyway.
Do a nice smart terrace, with an integrated TV gantry a and score board. Improve capacity by circa 2500 and improve the atmosphere and the look of the ground. Maybe even integrate the lawn mower garage by the side of the QLE.
Final point - we don't.lnow what the CapEx is so all the talk about what is and isn't VfM is guesswork. Point that no one can argue is we're growing and progressing. So we need the room to expand into. You don't wait to reach capacity then respond, you anticipate, predict and prepare.
The One wrote:adamstag wrote:Grimsby fan1984 wrote:I can safely say as a neutral you will beat your average attendance from last season no doubt with those numbers. What's the away allocation these days? We should bring a fair few
If you bring over 1000 just before christmas notts police will have about 200 on duty, horses helicopters and probably several tanks in reserve.
You forgot the gate, no booze, 9am kick off and the dogs
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