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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby daddycool » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:23 pm

Reading the Salford forum ,it’s seems Gary Neville rules , he tells Wellens where to play players etc . Worth a read
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby yorkshire stag » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:24 pm

Spiritater wrote:Thankfully Non Stech's mistake didn't cost us. Had City levelled at the end which thry nearly did I wonder if folk would've been so quick to defend his lack of command of his six yard box.


if Logan had been in nets we would have lost :D
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Spiritater » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:27 pm

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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:59 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:For example, they don’t take into account defensive errors or goalkeeping errors.


If a player makes a clear error that results in a goal Sam then they normally put an "E" by the player's name.

They do not this for all errors though. Ryan Sweeney had a very good game but I had to mark him down for being caught in possession in the first half that could have resulted in a Salford goal. I also thought that Farrend Rawson won more headers than Ryan Sweeney but it was 14-8 in favour of Sweeney for aerial battles won according to whoscored.


So these are your opinions. Isn’t that what these stats are too? You might think Stech made a mistake for the goal yet Sam might not so who is right? Whose stats would be the “correct” ones?

Also who is it who compiles all these stats. One person in the ground can’t possibly cover each players every touch, move & heat map etc.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:05 pm

Dan wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:For example, they don’t take into account defensive errors or goalkeeping errors.


If a player makes a clear error that results in a goal Sam then they normally put an "E" by the player's name.

They do not this for all errors though. Ryan Sweeney had a very good game but I had to mark him down for being caught in possession in the first half that could have resulted in a Salford goal. I also thought that Farrend Rawson won more headers than Ryan Sweeney but it was 14-8 in favour of Sweeney for aerial battles won according to whoscored.


So these are your opinions. Isn’t that what these stats are too? You might think Stech made a mistake for the goal yet Sam might not so who is right? Whose stats would be the “correct” ones?

Also who is it who compiles all these stats. One person in the ground can’t possibly cover each players every touch, move & heat map etc.


The stats don’t measure errors Dan, they don’t provide a list of those, whereas they do for headers won etc at they’re obviously easy to measure.

They had two of three people watching every game doing the stats live. They then go through the game again the next day, which is why the stats are adjusted sometimes 24 hours later.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:58 pm

There’s no way 2 or 3 people can measure properly how many touches 22 players have and where on a pitch which is why a lot of the stats are flawed. The only ones that count/matter are the shots on/off target, goals, bookings, sending offs and corners because they can all be done properly. And even then human error can get in the way.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby part time pete » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:22 pm

So did we beat Salford on xG then.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby The One » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:24 pm

Fed up with
stats, xg yawwwwwwn. We won. 3 points end of. Its every other thread now. Boring

I ask again can I have xg stats from Dave Smiths tenure?
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:32 pm

The One wrote:Fed up with
stats, xg yawwwwwwn. We won. 3 points end of. Its every other thread now. Boring

I ask again can I have xg stats from Dave Smiths tenure?



Can't we just turn every thread into a slanging match again?

Come to think of it, we've not had an argument about Flicker Vs Evans for a while so maybe we could talk about that instead?
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:42 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:Who controls the replays over live play

It's done by one person working for IMG at Stockley Park where they control the video, audio, graphics, adverts, replays etc. And produce the 2 minute and 10 minute highlights afterwards as well. They are in the same building as the VAR referees, just along the corridor! One person controls each game in League One and League Two. They have more than one person controlling each Championship game where they have multiple cameras.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby The One » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:00 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
The One wrote:Fed up with
stats, xg yawwwwwwn. We won. 3 points end of. Its every other thread now. Boring

I ask again can I have xg stats from Dave Smiths tenure?



Can't we just turn every thread into a slanging match again?

Come to think of it, we've not had an argument about Flicker Vs Evans for a while so maybe we could talk about that instead?


Bobby its getting to be on every thread. Can understand a football Manager needing this. We are not Managers and never will be. For the record Evans was fat and Flitcroft blew it
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:40 am

Dan wrote:There’s no way 2 or 3 people can measure properly how many touches 22 players have and where on a pitch which is why a lot of the stats are flawed. The only ones that count/matter are the shots on/off target, goals, bookings, sending offs and corners because they can all be done properly. And even then human error can get in the way.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-people-tracking-every-touch-pass-and-tackle-in-the-world-cup/amp/

Here’s an article on how it’s done Dan if you’re interested.

It’s from 2014 so I assume things may have advanced since then, but they were easily capable even back then.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Stoney » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:29 am

Martin Shaw wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Who controls the replays over live play

It's done by one person working for IMG at Stockley Park where they control the video, audio, graphics, adverts, replays etc. And produce the 2 minute and 10 minute highlights afterwards as well. They are in the same building as the VAR referees, just along the corridor! One person controls each game in League One and League Two. They have more than one person controlling each Championship game where they have multiple cameras.

Martin, have we totally scrapped the pitchside camera or will it be back eventually? Our replays were even better to watch when we got that angle too.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:54 am

The One wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
The One wrote:Fed up with
stats, xg yawwwwwwn. We won. 3 points end of. Its every other thread now. Boring

I ask again can I have xg stats from Dave Smiths tenure?



Can't we just turn every thread into a slanging match again?

Come to think of it, we've not had an argument about Flicker Vs Evans for a while so maybe we could talk about that instead?


Bobby its getting to be on every thread. Can understand a football Manager needing this. We are not Managers and never will be. For the record Evans was fat and Flitcroft blew it



It's like stats are a part of the game. I know id much rather see people discuss stats on our games than every turning to a name calling competition like it was
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby bellwhiff » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:14 am

Spiritater wrote:Thankfully Non Stech's mistake didn't cost us. Had City levelled at the end which thry nearly did I wonder if folk would've been so quick to defend his lack of command of his six yard box.

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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:23 am

Stoney wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Who controls the replays over live play

It's done by one person working for IMG at Stockley Park where they control the video, audio, graphics, adverts, replays etc. And produce the 2 minute and 10 minute highlights afterwards as well. They are in the same building as the VAR referees, just along the corridor! One person controls each game in League One and League Two. They have more than one person controlling each Championship game where they have multiple cameras.

Martin, have we totally scrapped the pitchside camera or will it be back eventually? Our replays were even better to watch when we got that angle too.

Our pitchside cameraman is furloughed. He will be back. The rest of the media team is half furloughed too, which inevitably reduces the output.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:49 am

Martin Shaw wrote:
PEAR CIDER wrote:Who controls the replays over live play

It's done by one person working for IMG at Stockley Park where they control the video, audio, graphics, adverts, replays etc. And produce the 2 minute and 10 minute highlights afterwards as well. They are in the same building as the VAR referees, just along the corridor! One person controls each game in League One and League Two. They have more than one person controlling each Championship game where they have multiple cameras.


I think they've been hit with the virus also, two freelancers we use have been covering the highlight edits the last couple of weeks and having to do more games each, so highlights going out onto Sky after the games might be slower over the next few weeks.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:05 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:There’s no way 2 or 3 people can measure properly how many touches 22 players have and where on a pitch which is why a lot of the stats are flawed. The only ones that count/matter are the shots on/off target, goals, bookings, sending offs and corners because they can all be done properly. And even then human error can get in the way.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-people-tracking-every-touch-pass-and-tackle-in-the-world-cup/amp/

Here’s an article on how it’s done Dan if you’re interested.

It’s from 2014 so I assume things may have advanced since then, but they were easily capable even back then.


Interesting that cheers. It backs up what I’ve always thought (& said) that they’re not ‘proper’ stats like shots because of the human error, even with the ‘checkers’ they’ve got.

This bit: Sometimes the analysts conferred over calls — “Is it a tackle?” was a question in the fourth minute of the Liverpool match. (It wasn’t.) Who decides if it was a tackle or not? The analyst? What if a former player now a pundit, a current player who did the tackle and his manager all said it WAS a tackle? Who is right? It’s down to interpretation which to me don’t give stats credence.

They have to type quickly with their left hands, without looking at the keyboard. Again if they’re not looking at what they’re doing there’s room for error. The stats that are put on screen directly after a game will be different to those 24 hours later due to human error. So what’s the point putting them on screen like iFollow do? I noticed after the Salford game it says goalkeeper saves were 100% for both keepers. We know that’s not true because Stech fumbled for the goal. It even says in the article “Its live analysts get 99 percent of player identifications correct” So again the stats aren’t reliable. Some games could be 99% others 95%, either way they’re wrong stats yet people take them as gospel.

And don’t even get me started on this xG crap :lol:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:17 pm

They may not be 100% reliable in real time, but the game is then gone through again after and any mistakes corrected.

The workload for xG is minuscule in comparison, all they need to know is the position a shot was taken from.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:26 pm

That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:29 pm

Dan wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?


They give a rough idea I suppose? Don’t know, I can’t answer that.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:46 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?


They give a rough idea I suppose? Don’t know, I can’t answer that.


They’re given as proper facts/stats at the end of a game and people just take them as accurate. Well most people ;)
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby The One » Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:51 pm

Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?


They give a rough idea I suppose? Don’t know, I can’t answer that.


They’re given as proper facts/stats at the end of a game and people just take them as accurate. Well most people ;)


Exactly. Just bought a saddle for the horse I shot.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby kevin kents tasce » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:22 pm

Has anyone got the LMA contacts list? Dan from Mansfield reckons stats are a load of rubbish so I want to alert all the managers that their whole recruitment process is flawed.

Whilst I’m at it, if anyone has the CEO contact list for every bookie on the planet, I’ll let them know too.

What’s that you ask? How have clubs like Leicester and Brentford massively overachieved in both the league and their transfer business?

Clearly by pure fluke and nothing to do with data driven activity
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby The One » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:47 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:Has anyone got the LMA contacts list? Dan from Mansfield reckons stats are a load of rubbish so I want to alert all the managers that their whole recruitment process is flawed.

Whilst I’m at it, if anyone has the CEO contact list for every bookie on the planet, I’ll let them know too.

What’s that you ask? How have clubs like Leicester and Brentford massively overachieved in both the league and their transfer business?

Clearly by pure fluke and nothing to do with data driven activity


Bet Dave Smith used it daily to sail through the leagues
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