BH_Stag wrote:So Tranmere put forward a plan that adopts a formula that takes in to account form over the past 3 seasons? Oh, how incredibly convenient for them considering they’ve had 2 promotions. It’s not even a subtle attempt at trying to fix something up to suit themselves
I know all chairmen/clubs will try and do what they can for their club, and that’s fair enough, but I hope the proposals are dismissed by the rest of the clubs in league 1 and they adopt a PPG/WPPG, whichever they want.
I understand Tranmere’s complaints and it’s unfortunate on their part but this is not an ideal situation. If the season is to be played to a conclusion one way or another, then all relegation spots have to be honoured. That goes for League 2 as well.
NorthLondonStag wrote:BH_Stag wrote:So Tranmere put forward a plan that adopts a formula that takes in to account form over the past 3 seasons? Oh, how incredibly convenient for them considering they’ve had 2 promotions. It’s not even a subtle attempt at trying to fix something up to suit themselves
I know all chairmen/clubs will try and do what they can for their club, and that’s fair enough, but I hope the proposals are dismissed by the rest of the clubs in league 1 and they adopt a PPG/WPPG, whichever they want.
I understand Tranmere’s complaints and it’s unfortunate on their part but this is not an ideal situation. If the season is to be played to a conclusion one way or another, then all relegation spots have to be honoured. That goes for League 2 as well.
In fairness to them they have not put forward a plan that adjusts for how they themselves have performed over the last 3 seasons. They have put forward a plan that adjusts all clubs’ points by an amount calculated by how the position is at this stage in the season might vary from the end on a general basis. The result would be the same though.
NorthLondonStag wrote:Spartacus, that’s not how the proposed system works. It’s got nothing to do with the team’s own form over the last three seasons. The BBC report is misleading but the link I posted above explains how it works.
What the system is designed to do is to take all the teams that are in the promotion or relegation positions and then apply an adjustment. The ‘last three seasons’ point comes in because it looks at a statistical analysis of how much the teams position now could reasonably be expected to change by the end of the season.
It’s nothing to do with a given team’s last three seasons, whether they performed well or badly.
I am Spartacus wrote:NorthLondonStag wrote:Spartacus, that’s not how the proposed system works. It’s got nothing to do with the team’s own form over the last three seasons. The BBC report is misleading but the link I posted above explains how it works.
What the system is designed to do is to take all the teams that are in the promotion or relegation positions and then apply an adjustment. The ‘last three seasons’ point comes in because it looks at a statistical analysis of how much the teams position now could reasonably be expected to change by the end of the season.
It’s nothing to do with a given team’s last three seasons, whether they performed well or badly.
Thanks for the clarification, my apologies. Reasonable adjustment of change? Why three seasons and who defines reasonable. IMO football is a seasonal competition and your league the following season depends on your performance in the current season.
Reasonable and fairness when applied to formulas to effect end of season change are to subjective for me as they skew the statistics, albeit slightly, of the season. Clubs, and I would take the same view if we were in a relegation position or would miss out on promotion, should be judged on the current season alone.
I would like to know Jimmy Glass’s view on how to end the season? A game of headers and volleys perhaps?
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
mousemousemouse wrote:I am Spartacus wrote:NorthLondonStag wrote:Spartacus, that’s not how the proposed system works. It’s got nothing to do with the team’s own form over the last three seasons. The BBC report is misleading but the link I posted above explains how it works.
What the system is designed to do is to take all the teams that are in the promotion or relegation positions and then apply an adjustment. The ‘last three seasons’ point comes in because it looks at a statistical analysis of how much the teams position now could reasonably be expected to change by the end of the season.
It’s nothing to do with a given team’s last three seasons, whether they performed well or badly.
Thanks for the clarification, my apologies. Reasonable adjustment of change? Why three seasons and who defines reasonable. IMO football is a seasonal competition and your league the following season depends on your performance in the current season.
Reasonable and fairness when applied to formulas to effect end of season change are to subjective for me as they skew the statistics, albeit slightly, of the season. Clubs, and I would take the same view if we were in a relegation position or would miss out on promotion, should be judged on the current season alone.
I would like to know Jimmy Glass’s view on how to end the season? A game of headers and volleys perhaps?
It'll take into consideration how the teams performed in the final stages of the previous years; how many points they accumulated, goals conceded etc and the model the table using this data. They're trying to predict the outcome to this season based on 3 year averages. I presume 3 seasons because Tranmere had generally good form in 2 of those?
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
NorthLondonStag wrote:Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
This is what the proposal seeks to do. If you had a decent chance of avoiding relegation based on the margin for error then you will. If you are already outside the relegation places then you can’t go down either.
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
Big yella wrote:Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
My God mate. For someone who wanted the season ended 20 seconds after the first cancellation you haven't half whinged and moaned about every proposed way of ending it?
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:NorthLondonStag wrote:Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
This is what the proposal seeks to do. If you had a decent chance of avoiding relegation based on the margin for error then you will. If you are already outside the relegation places then you can’t go down either.
So who goes down then?
By just adrift of the pack, I meant teams in relegation places who may have survived. If teams clear of the bottom won't go down either then on your reckoning no-one will.
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Well that sounds like a right recipe for a balls up.
If I understand you correctly all promotions will take place but all relegations may not. So next year we could end up with 26 teams in league 1 but only 22 in league 2. But then league 2 could be boosted by 1 as no relegation would take place as both Stevenage and Morcambe could escape the relegation zone under the adjustment rules. So on that logic, 1,2 or 3 could come up from the conference. Parties and breweries spring to mind.
ST4GS wrote:Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:But is it individual teams or teams occupying the relevant positions in the table, that is where did the team who were fourth with 9 games to go end up and how many points did they get in the last 9 games. There is normally a team who puts in a late sprint from around 10th to 12th and some who appear relatively safe who are relegated.
That is why it isn't fair to relegate teams who are only just adrift of the pack as anything can happen in the final quarter of a season.
Anything can happen and often does.
Our one and only season in tier two provided an amazing end of the season relegation battle.
Blackpool were 7th and if play-offs had been invented would have been looking to challenge for promotion.
When Blackpool finished their last game they were "safe!!" in 16th position, four places above the drop zone.
At the end of the season the four teams directly below Blackpool in the table gained the points required from games in hand to relegate Blackpool.
Burnley who were in the bottom three in March finished top half in 11th.
League Division Two table after close of play on 11 March 1978:
1 Tottenham Hotspur 32 16 13 3 65 32 33 45
2 Bolton Wanderers 31 19 7 5 51 27 24 45
3 Southampton 31 17 8 6 49 31 18 42
4 Brighton and Hove Albion 31 15 10 6 47 31 16 40
5 Blackburn Rovers 30 14 9 7 45 39 6 37
6 Oldham Athletic 31 11 11 9 42 41 1 33
7 Blackpool 31 12 8 11 50 41 9 32
8 Fulham 29 11 8 10 39 32 7 30
9 Luton Town 32 11 8 13 42 38 4 30
10 Crystal Palace 30 10 10 10 39 37 2 30
11 Bristol Rovers 31 9 12 10 45 53 -8 30
12 Sunderland 30 8 12 10 48 47 1 28
13 Notts County 30 9 10 11 42 48 -6 28
14 Sheffield United 30 11 6 13 44 56 -12 28
15 Stoke City 29 10 7 12 29 31 -2 27
16 Charlton Athletic 30 9 9 12 44 54 -10 27
17 Orient 29 6 13 10 30 34 -4 25
18 Cardiff City 30 8 8 14 39 59 -20 24
19 Hull City 31 7 9 15 27 36 -9 23
20 Burnley 31 7 9 15 33 51 -18 23
21 Millwall 29 5 11 13 28 41 -13 21
22 Mansfield Town 30 6 8 16 35 54 -19 20
League Division Two table after close of play on 01 May 1978
1 Bolton Wanderers 42 24 10 8 63 33 30 58
2 Southampton 42 22 13 7 70 39 31 57
3 Tottenham Hotspur 42 20 16 6 83 49 34 56
4 Brighton and Hove Albion 42 22 12 8 63 38 25 56
5 Blackburn Rovers 42 16 13 13 56 60 -4 45
6 Sunderland 42 14 16 12 67 59 8 44
7 Stoke City 42 16 10 16 53 49 4 42
8 Oldham Athletic 42 13 16 13 54 58 -4 42
9 Crystal Palace 42 13 15 14 50 47 3 41
10 Fulham 42 14 13 15 49 49 0 41
11 Burnley 42 15 10 17 56 64 -8 40
12 Sheffield United 42 16 8 18 62 73 -11 40
13 Luton Town 42 14 10 18 54 52 2 38
14 Notts County 41 11 16 14 53 60 -7 38
15 Bristol Rovers 42 13 12 17 61 77 -16 38
16 Blackpool 42 12 13 17 59 60 -1 37
17 Charlton Athletic 41 13 11 17 55 68 -13 37
18 Millwall 41 11 14 16 48 57 -9 36
19 Cardiff City 40 12 12 16 49 69 -20 36
20 Orient 40 9 17 14 42 49 -7 35
21 Mansfield Town 41 10 11 20 49 68 -19 31
22 Hull City 42 8 12 22 34 52 -18 28
League Division Two end of season table for 1977-78 season
1 Bolton Wanderers 42 24 10 8 63 33 30 58
2 Southampton 42 22 13 7 70 39 31 57
3 Tottenham Hotspur 42 20 16 6 83 49 34 56
4 Brighton and Hove Albion 42 22 12 8 63 38 25 56
5 Blackburn Rovers 42 16 13 13 56 60 -4 45
6 Sunderland 42 14 16 12 67 59 8 44
7 Stoke City 42 16 10 16 53 49 4 42
8 Oldham Athletic 42 13 16 13 54 58 -4 42
9 Crystal Palace 42 13 15 14 50 47 3 41
10 Fulham 42 14 13 15 49 49 0 41
11 Burnley 42 15 10 17 56 64 -8 40
12 Sheffield United 42 16 8 18 62 73 -11 40
13 Luton Town 42 14 10 18 54 52 2 38
14 Orient 42 10 18 14 43 49 -6 38
15 Notts County 42 11 16 15 54 62 -8 38
16 Millwall 42 12 14 16 49 57 -8 38
17 Charlton Athletic 42 13 12 17 55 68 -13 38
18 Bristol Rovers 42 13 12 17 61 77 -16 38
19 Cardiff City 42 13 12 17 51 71 -20 38
20 Blackpool 42 12 13 17 59 60 -1 37
21 Mansfield Town 42 10 11 21 49 69 -20 31
22 Hull City 42 8 12 22 34 52 -18 28
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