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It's starting already

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Re: It's starting already

Postby oldweststander » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:52 am

GC can't be held responsible for a great deal this season

The rot was well set in by the time he was appointed, if there is blame to be laid anywhere it is with the board of directors with the outrageously unambitious appointment of John Dempster.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:59 am

Sedgwick wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
Conker wrote:Under absolutely no circumstances should GC not get a chance at next season.


He will get a chance, but if were not top 3 come the end of his first full season he will be replaced with Richard Cooper or Mez! And fans will say he failed twice :lol:



we can't be sacking managers if they fail to get promoted with one chance, even if we do miss out next year we actually need to build a squad under him for a couple of seasons I think.


We did exactly that with Flitcroft.



And I don't think we should do that again with Coughlan, if it happens. He'll build a team next year, miss out on promotion and then a new manager will want a clear out and his own players in. We'll be stuck in a vicious circle
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Re: It's starting already

Postby cassellswasmagic » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:01 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
Conker wrote:Under absolutely no circumstances should GC not get a chance at next season.


He will get a chance, but if were not top 3 come the end of his first full season he will be replaced with Richard Cooper or Mez! And fans will say he failed twice :lol:



we can't be sacking managers if they fail to get promoted with one chance, even if we do miss out next year we actually need to build a squad under him for a couple of seasons I think.


We did exactly that with Flitcroft.



And I don't think we should do that again with Coughlan, if it happens. He'll build a team next year, miss out on promotion and then a new manager will want a clear out and his own players in. We'll be stuck in a vicious circle

We must stick with a manager for the long term gain. We can’t keep binning managers because they just miss out on promotion or play offs. Look at Wycombe as an example of a team nearly going into the conference a few years back!!!
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Re: It's starting already

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:04 pm

Agreed cassells, maybe it's time to back off the 'big budget, promotion chasing' headlines. Of course we still want promotion, every team in league two does but we need to not go around flaunting that were spending big bucks and trying to walk the league.

We've been paying big wages for a while now, and achieved sod all.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Sweden Stag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:14 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:

we can't be sacking managers if they fail to get promoted with one chance, even if we do miss out next year we actually need to build a squad under him for a couple of seasons I think.


We did exactly that with Flitcroft.




We must stick with a manager for the long term gain. We can’t keep binning managers because they just miss out on promotion or play offs. Look at Wycombe as an example of a team nearly going into the conference a few years back!!!


Definitely. Also look at Burnley higher up the pyramid. They kept faith in Sean Dyche after relegation from the PL in 2014-15. And look at where they are now. And for League Two: look at Morecambe for years as well. They have had just THREE permament managers since they gained league status in 2007. Also look at Exeter, where Paul Tisdale was boss for more than a decade.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Dave Wayne » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:33 pm

Watching EMT last night and it was all about how Forest could go 2nd if they won.
But the thing that stood out most is that this is looking like being the first season since 2009/10 that they end the season with the same manager they started it with.
What have they achieved in those 10 years ? Nothing.
Let's not be like Forest. Let's get behind our manager and give him time to build a squad. Last time we did this we got promoted !!
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Berryhillstagno1 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:05 pm

I see a manager who inside is absolutely seething at the performances. If you go on e Bay you'll see a book which a Plymouth fan wrote with our manager highlighting his early playing promotions. This is a man who is a winner in every club he has played for. I see his pain and frustration who like his predecessors is trying all he has learnt to change the mindset within this club. If he could be candid about the set up it wouldn't be pleasant reading.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby bigalstag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:11 pm

The responsibility for the present shambles begins and ends with the board, and that includes the owners. How anybody can get onto a manager that has been left such a mess, is beyond me. If this team succeeds in getting itself relegated, those at the top have nobody to blame, other than themselves.
As far as players bought in, during the transfer window, he was hardly going to bring costly signings, rather stop gaps, that he can unload in June, if they are not up to the mark.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby gazza1988 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:12 pm

Spiritater wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Some of them only gave Flitcroft 12 games with no transfer window before they wanted him sacked. Then some thought our highest position for over 15 years was "failure" so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

We haven't prepared for this season adequately, hence why we aren't doing too well.

You keep on thrashing this pre season blabber. It's much more than that as to why we've been aso utterly garbage this year. Doing simple things at the right time isn't difficult. Take the O's 2nd, chances to smash it out t'ground... not taken, chance to stop the final cross coming in by CJ... instead just wafts his foot at it aimlessly, chance for Bob to command his six yard box... oh dear :oops:
GC's thrust post match was 'mistakes', basic simple Sunday league stuff. I think he's done away with the fitness excuse now as it's wearing thin. He realises now the problem is far worse .


Lack of adequate preparation leads to tiredness during games. Tiredness during games leads to a lack of concentration. A lack of concentration leads to mistakes. Mistakes leads to chances for the opposition.

Put it this way. If someone gets behind the wheel of a car and is tired then they could make a mistake that is costly. We're doing the same. This season is akin to a car crash.

Look at the side that started last night. Bar 2 players, it's the same side that got us 4th last season, now we're 4th bottom. The 2 players are Riley and Maynard. Not exactly poor signings ability wise. We get White back and its the same side except Maynard instead of Walker. The fact we are now on the 2nd manager since last season and nothing has changed then its clear the problem lies with the fitness and poor pre season.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Jimstag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:28 pm

We said at the very start that we can’t fully judge Coughlan until next Christmas when he’s had a decent run of games with his own squad. We all know this group isn’t up to it and he’s not had the opportunity to change it.

As for his experience he’s turned around a poor Bristol Rovers side and shown potential while there, let him have a fair chance to do it again.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby yorkshire stag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:29 pm

i just want to not finish bottom then we can start the blame culture, let’s try sticking together until then ehhhh?
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:43 pm

bigalstag wrote:The responsibility for the present shambles begins and ends with the board, and that includes the owners. How anybody can get onto a manager that has been left such a mess, is beyond me. If this team succeeds in getting itself relegated, those at the top have nobody to blame, other than themselves.
As far as players bought in, during the transfer window, he was hardly going to bring costly signings, rather stop gaps, that he can unload in June, if they are not up to the mark.

I understand that and January is the most difficult window of the two.

I'm not sure that the "stop gaps" he has brought in are good enough.

I'm sure GC is giving everything he's got and it's not his fault he was headhunted.

My concern is whether the board have "messed up" again by appointing a manager, who hasn't got the experience to handled the difficult situation left by the sacking of DF and subsequent appointment of JD.

Hopefully the situation will resolve itself by Stevenage being worse than us.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:48 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:The coughlan out gang are slowly starting to form on Facebook. Here we go again :lol:


I feel sorry for GC.

He’s expected to make silk purse out of a sow’s ear
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Re: It's starting already

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:07 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:The coughlan out gang are slowly starting to form on Facebook. Here we go again :lol:


I feel sorry for GC.

He’s expected to make silk purse out of a sow’s ear



By some fans he is, I would imagine he's been told by the board to just stop up this season and go again in the summer
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:10 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
EdwinstoweStag wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:The coughlan out gang are slowly starting to form on Facebook. Here we go again :lol:


I feel sorry for GC.

He’s expected to make silk purse out of a sow’s ear



By some fans he is, I would imagine he's been told by the board to just stop up this season and go again in the summer

Notts County kept faith with their manager despite relegation and now they are on the up.

We should do the same, even if the unthinkable happens.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby gazza1988 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:26 pm

Jimstag wrote:We said at the very start that we can’t fully judge Coughlan until next Christmas when he’s had a decent run of games with his own squad. We all know this group isn’t up to it and he’s not had the opportunity to change it.

As for his experience he’s turned around a poor Bristol Rovers side and shown potential while there, let him have a fair chance to do it again.

Further to this, GC has experience in the backroom staff.

At Shrewsbury he did some coaching and managed the reserves between 2008-2010, whilst also playing.

He joined Southend in 2010 and was player/reserve manager until 2011 when he signed a 2 year deal making him player/assistant manager. Once that deal ran out he was made first team coach and quit playing.

In 2018 he moved to Bristol as a first team coach. He was made caretaker manager in December that year, he was given the job permanently. Got Bristol to a surprise 4th spot halfway through the season and then came here.

That is plenty of experience in dealing with professional footballers on the other side of the white line. We fast tracked Dempster past alot of that.

That's nearly 12 years experience in some kind of coaching role.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Captain Cunno » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:29 pm

Berryhillstagno1 wrote:I see a manager who inside is absolutely seething at the performances. If you go on e Bay you'll see a book which a Plymouth fan wrote with our manager highlighting his early playing promotions. This is a man who is a winner in every club he has played for. I see his pain and frustration who like his predecessors is trying all he has learnt to change the mindset within this club. If he could be candid about the set up it wouldn't be pleasant reading.


I fully agree... I'd love to know what he really thinks.
I bet he never imagined it would be so bad when he agreed to come.

There wont be many survive come June..
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Parkinsons Perm » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:34 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Jimstag wrote:We said at the very start that we can’t fully judge Coughlan until next Christmas when he’s had a decent run of games with his own squad. We all know this group isn’t up to it and he’s not had the opportunity to change it.

As for his experience he’s turned around a poor Bristol Rovers side and shown potential while there, let him have a fair chance to do it again.

Further to this, GC has experience in the backroom staff.

At Shrewsbury he did some coaching and managed the reserves between 2008-2010, whilst also playing.

He joined Southend in 2010 and was player/reserve manager until 2011 when he signed a 2 year deal making him player/assistant manager. Once that deal ran out he was made first team coach and quit playing.

In 2018 he moved to Bristol as a first team coach. He was made caretaker manager in December that year, he was given the job permanently. Got Bristol to a surprise 4th spot halfway through the season and then came here.

That is plenty of experience in dealing with professional footballers on the other side of the white line. We fast tracked Dempster past alot of that.

That's nearly 12 years experience in some kind of coaching role.


Unfortunately for many his 'coaching' doesn't seem to be in 'football' but more akin to 'hoofball' and it ain't pretty to watch, especially when it's not remotely near working.

If I remember correctly The Gas fans said he did a great job but attendances still dropped off under him, it's not hard to see why.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:39 pm

Woodclanger 1 wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Jimstag wrote:We said at the very start that we can’t fully judge Coughlan until next Christmas when he’s had a decent run of games with his own squad. We all know this group isn’t up to it and he’s not had the opportunity to change it.

As for his experience he’s turned around a poor Bristol Rovers side and shown potential while there, let him have a fair chance to do it again.

Further to this, GC has experience in the backroom staff.

At Shrewsbury he did some coaching and managed the reserves between 2008-2010, whilst also playing.

He joined Southend in 2010 and was player/reserve manager until 2011 when he signed a 2 year deal making him player/assistant manager. Once that deal ran out he was made first team coach and quit playing.

In 2018 he moved to Bristol as a first team coach. He was made caretaker manager in December that year, he was given the job permanently. Got Bristol to a surprise 4th spot halfway through the season and then came here.

That is plenty of experience in dealing with professional footballers on the other side of the white line. We fast tracked Dempster past alot of that.

That's nearly 12 years experience in some kind of coaching role.


Unfortunately for many his 'coaching' doesn't seem to be in 'football' but more akin to 'hoofball' and it ain't pretty to watch, especially when it's not remotely near working.

If I remember correctly The Gas fans said he did a great job but attendances still dropped off under him, it's not hard to see why.



I bet the attendances didn't drop whilst he was getting them up to 4th in league one. If he gets us promoted next season playing raspberries ugly football I honestly couldn't care less, I just want us to get rid of this losing mentality and turn it into a winning one.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby part time pete » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:57 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Some of them only gave Flitcroft 12 games with no transfer window before they wanted him sacked. Then some thought our highest position for over 15 years was "failure" so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

We haven't prepared for this season adequately, hence why we aren't doing too well.

You keep on thrashing this pre season blabber. It's much more than that as to why we've been aso utterly garbage this year. Doing simple things at the right time isn't difficult. Take the O's 2nd, chances to smash it out t'ground... not taken, chance to stop the final cross coming in by CJ... instead just wafts his foot at it aimlessly, chance for Bob to command his six yard box... oh dear :oops:
GC's thrust post match was 'mistakes', basic simple Sunday league stuff. I think he's done away with the fitness excuse now as it's wearing thin. He realises now the problem is far worse .


Lack of adequate preparation leads to tiredness during games. Tiredness during games leads to a lack of concentration. A lack of concentration leads to mistakes. Mistakes leads to chances for the opposition.

Put it this way. If someone gets behind the wheel of a car and is tired then they could make a mistake that is costly. We're doing the same. This season is akin to a car crash.

Look at the side that started last night. Bar 2 players, it's the same side that got us 4th last season, now we're 4th bottom. The 2 players are Riley and Maynard. Not exactly poor signings ability wise. We get White back and its the same side except Maynard instead of Walker. The fact we are now on the 2nd manager since last season and nothing has changed then its clear the problem lies with the fitness and poor pre season.


I cant remember Watts playing for us last season ;)
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Jamie » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:19 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Jamie wrote:Hardly a myth. He been a manager how long? 14 months? He kept up a failing side, rode that wave this season and left to join us.

Of course he needs a full pre season and the chance to build his own side. But so far hes not delivered and has failed his first objective of turning round a capable but failing side.

Fingers crossed for next year but losing faith rapidly. Especially when we know it's going to be more hoof ball.


So if he keeps up this failing side (which you say is capable but has arguably been failing for 9 months, possibly more) and 'rides the wave' as you put it next season, will that be alright for you or will that just be lucky? You don't 'ride the wave' to 4th in League One without some capability. Rovers have done terribly since he left, much worse than us, so he must have been having some impact.


I didn't say he was lucky. He created the wave and we all know how powerful momentum and squad moral is at this level.

I didnt say he wasnt capable either. I'm saying hes inexperienced. Which oddly you think is a myth. Hes been a manager 14 months, you call that experienced???

First job he did well, created the 'wave' and rode it this season nicely. Sadly, so far hes failed to do the same here. There will be no wave to ride next season... It will have to be a mass clear out and a start again with crossed fingers they gel and it works.

He cant really lose at the moment. No one is expecting much and most are happy to blame the players. The real time to judge is firstly what he does over the summer, then how we start next season.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby tillydog123 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:37 pm

One view is that many of us on here wanted rid of JD including me towards the end period where it was clear he was out of his depth.

We did think that a new manager would be able to at the very least organize them and play them in their proper roles etc and get them playing half decent football and a move up the table at least towards the play offs.
This if we are honest has NOT happened under CG and they must be fit by now as he has had the training and clear weeks etc so not sure what is going on.
Maybe these players are all Duds now!!
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Re: It's starting already

Postby ST4GS » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:38 pm

part time pete wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Some of them only gave Flitcroft 12 games with no transfer window before they wanted him sacked. Then some thought our highest position for over 15 years was "failure" so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

We haven't prepared for this season adequately, hence why we aren't doing too well.

You keep on thrashing this pre season blabber. It's much more than that as to why we've been aso utterly garbage this year. Doing simple things at the right time isn't difficult. Take the O's 2nd, chances to smash it out t'ground... not taken, chance to stop the final cross coming in by CJ... instead just wafts his foot at it aimlessly, chance for Bob to command his six yard box... oh dear :oops:
GC's thrust post match was 'mistakes', basic simple Sunday league stuff. I think he's done away with the fitness excuse now as it's wearing thin. He realises now the problem is far worse .


Lack of adequate preparation leads to tiredness during games. Tiredness during games leads to a lack of concentration. A lack of concentration leads to mistakes. Mistakes leads to chances for the opposition.

Put it this way. If someone gets behind the wheel of a car and is tired then they could make a mistake that is costly. We're doing the same. This season is akin to a car crash.

Look at the side that started last night. Bar 2 players, it's the same side that got us 4th last season, now we're 4th bottom. The 2 players are Riley and Maynard. Not exactly poor signings ability wise. We get White back and its the same side except Maynard instead of Walker. The fact we are now on the 2nd manager since last season and nothing has changed then its clear the problem lies with the fitness and poor pre season.


I cant remember Watts playing for us last season ;)
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Re: It's starting already

Postby gazza1988 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:41 pm

part time pete wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Some of them only gave Flitcroft 12 games with no transfer window before they wanted him sacked. Then some thought our highest position for over 15 years was "failure" so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

We haven't prepared for this season adequately, hence why we aren't doing too well.

You keep on thrashing this pre season blabber. It's much more than that as to why we've been aso utterly garbage this year. Doing simple things at the right time isn't difficult. Take the O's 2nd, chances to smash it out t'ground... not taken, chance to stop the final cross coming in by CJ... instead just wafts his foot at it aimlessly, chance for Bob to command his six yard box... oh dear :oops:
GC's thrust post match was 'mistakes', basic simple Sunday league stuff. I think he's done away with the fitness excuse now as it's wearing thin. He realises now the problem is far worse .


Lack of adequate preparation leads to tiredness during games. Tiredness during games leads to a lack of concentration. A lack of concentration leads to mistakes. Mistakes leads to chances for the opposition.

Put it this way. If someone gets behind the wheel of a car and is tired then they could make a mistake that is costly. We're doing the same. This season is akin to a car crash.

Look at the side that started last night. Bar 2 players, it's the same side that got us 4th last season, now we're 4th bottom. The 2 players are Riley and Maynard. Not exactly poor signings ability wise. We get White back and its the same side except Maynard instead of Walker. The fact we are now on the 2nd manager since last season and nothing has changed then its clear the problem lies with the fitness and poor pre season.


I cant remember Watts playing for us last season ;)

An excellent point, well made :lol: :oops:
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Re: It's starting already

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:49 pm

I don't think it's fair to say this is the same side as last season.

Olejnik - first choice for a few months in which he was good, not the same player since injury

Riley - not here, small sample but looks an average L2 player. Not as good as an injury free White IMO, probably about the same level, maybe a bit better than Gethin Jones
Sweeney - yes
Pearce - yes
Watts - not here, again looks an average L2 player on current evidence. I would say Preston on top form is better, but was all know he's been terrible this season.
Benning - yes

Bishop - Yes, but not the same player, legs have gone.
Tomlinson - Yes, but barely played and when he did was mostly poor

CJ - Yes, but has always been hit and miss. Flitcroft got more out of him than any other manager has, I think he'll be at Bolton next season.
Maynard - not here, not had the service Walker had but not as good IMO. Still very capable though and not much of a downgrade
Rose - yes, but didn't really contribute last season.
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