Stewards

[Dan]

buried within masses of stuff on facebook, there are a couple of comments by PC John Albanese (successor to Carl Gabbitas):

John Albanese
firstly I’m not the safety officer, nor am I employed by the club or have any responsibility for the stewards or warriors as you address. Secondly I wasn’t at the game today so can’t comment on any decisions made or if any profanities were captured. I was merely trying to clear up the devices used belong to the club and that the individuals have no retention on anything captured. As part of the ground regulations by entering you are agreeing to being filmed, so the argument about is it legal is answered they can film whoever they like.
With regards to Dempster’s press conference, in which he commented about being abused and told to die, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be faced with that when your just trying to do your job, so if the club utilise cameras to prevent such abuse and none is reported then I’d say the tactic was successful. Not sure what being a Burnley fan has to do with anything, other than we got beat to today!

I can smell bull. Why film people if it's not being 'captured'. That's like me saying 'yes I took your photo but "I have no retention on anything captured". Would you believe me having just seen me take your photo?! They really do think we're thick don't they. So if they capture someone shouting to Dempster to die are you telling me they wouldn't keep it as evidence?!

you've misread it Dan. He says the individuals have no retention (ie the stewards filming have no retention). He does not say the club have no retention.

So my original point stands then?!

[Dan]

How else can they stop the abuse at the tunnel?

Pretty easy. Stop people heading there near the end of the game. If you leave your seat you leave the stadium, you don’t head down to moaners corner ready to hurl abuse at the people you’re meant to there to support. The stewards can tell people that & stop them congregating in that area. It’s not hard really.

[bobbystagsfan]

How else can they stop the abuse at the tunnel?

Pretty easy. Stop people heading there near the end of the game. If you leave your seat you leave the stadium, you don’t head down to moaners corner ready to hurl abuse at the people you’re meant to there to support. The stewards can tell people that & stop them congregating in that area. It’s not hard really.

Gabbitas gate V2

[tibby]

Dempster has been told to die?

How ridiculous and about sums up out fan base. He has inherited a poor team that somehow failed last season.

Its 4th tier football being played in Mansfield, folk need to get a grip of reality and reassess personal priorities

[Random Hero]

Just because it’s technically legal to film people in the ground for no apparent reason by a steward on their mobile phone, that doesn’t mean it’s ethically or morally correct.

[Random Hero]

Dempster has been told to die?

Allegedly. We sit near the tunnel in the QLE and have never heard that sort of abuse - doesn’t mean it didn’t happen of course.

However, I know for a fact it wasn’t my Mrs. So why film her?! Stewards with mobile phones filming innocent people really is not the way to flush out the village idiot.

[Foresttownstag]

Dempster has been told to die?

How ridiculous and about sums up out fan base. He has inherited a poor team that somehow failed last season.

Its 4th tier football being played in Mansfield, folk need to get a grip of reality and reassess personal priorities

Dempster has inherited a poor team? You mean the same team who finished 4th last season and should have gone up.

Don’t know if you missed it but Dempster also had the whole summer to recruit and I think we’d all agree he did a good job on the whole with the signings of Cook & Maynard.

Absolute rubbish that he’s inherited a poor team. He just can’t manage them.

[I am Spartacus]

The fact that we are having this debate, to me, is the start of the education to eradicate this behaviour. Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut by filming and ejecting individuals, which alienates other fans is a step too far. Speak to the fan, write to the fan explains why is behaviour is unacceptable, take them to one side at half time effectively educating them. Warn them that their behaviour needs to improve or they will be ‘allowed to participate in a cooling off period’ by not attending. Don’t be heavy handed Mr Broughton if it is you, apologies if not, work smarter not harder and benefit everyone.

After all it has worked with Front Row Hero!

[EdwinstoweStag]

Dempster has been told to die?

How ridiculous and about sums up out fan base. He has inherited a poor team that somehow failed last season.

Its 4th tier football being played in Mansfield, folk need to get a grip of reality and reassess personal priorities

Dempster has inherited a poor team? You mean the same team who finished 4th last season and should have gone up.

Don’t know if you missed it but Dempster also had the whole summer to recruit and I think we’d all agree he did a good job on the whole with the signings of Cook & Maynard.

Absolute rubbish that he’s inherited a poor team. He just can’t manage them.

True enough. But it still doesn’t excuse the alleged actions of some of our “supporters”.
Every club has its morons. I don't suppose the Stags are unique in this respect. However, until we ALL do something to eliminate the extreme abuse that is vocalised on a regular basis, then we are ALL guilty of condoning it.

[Random Hero]

However, until we ALL do something to eliminate the extreme abuse that is vocalised on a regular basis, then we are ALL guilty of condoning it.

This is complete and utter rubbish. No one in their right mind would condone such abuse... innocent , passive people shouldn't be treated like they are guilty.

[I am Spartacus]

To what extent is this the legacy of Steve Evans? Although I will admit idiots will be idiots but did his repulsive, anti-social, aggressive, nasty and vicious behaviour give the green light to others to behave the same?

[Sneag]

The fact that we are having this debate, to me, is the start of the education to eradicate this behaviour. Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut by filming and ejecting individuals, which alienates other fans is a step too far. Speak to the fan, write to the fan explains why is behaviour is unacceptable, take them to one side at half time effectively educating them. Warn them that their behaviour needs to improve or they will be ‘allowed to participate in a cooling off period’ by not attending. Don’t be heavy handed Mr Broughton if it is you, apologies if not, work smarter not harder and benefit everyone.

After all it has worked with Front Row Hero!

Well put

[EdwinstoweStag]

To what extent is this the legacy of Steve Evans? Although I will admit idiots will be idiots but did his repulsive, anti-social, aggressive, nasty and vicious behaviour give the green light to others to behave the same?

When I hear/witness the activities of SOME of our fans and don’t have the courage to address it, then I, for one, feel guilty by association. It’s for others to determine their own thresholds of acceptability.

[Beano]

Dempster has been told to die?

How ridiculous and about sums up out fan base. He has inherited a poor team that somehow failed last season.

Its 4th tier football being played in Mansfield, folk need to get a grip of reality and reassess personal priorities

Wow, you think the odd moron sums up our entire fan base?

[Martin Shaw]

Just because it’s technically legal to film people in the ground for no apparent reason by a steward on their mobile phone, that doesn’t mean it’s ethically or morally correct.

indeed. That is an entirely separate point. I was just clarifying that it was legal, because some seemed to think it wasn't.

[Martin Shaw]

buried within masses of stuff on facebook, there are a couple of comments by PC John Albanese (successor to Carl Gabbitas):

John Albanese
firstly I’m not the safety officer, nor am I employed by the club or have any responsibility for the stewards or warriors as you address. Secondly I wasn’t at the game today so can’t comment on any decisions made or if any profanities were captured. I was merely trying to clear up the devices used belong to the club and that the individuals have no retention on anything captured. As part of the ground regulations by entering you are agreeing to being filmed, so the argument about is it legal is answered they can film whoever they like.
With regards to Dempster’s press conference, in which he commented about being abused and told to die, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be faced with that when your just trying to do your job, so if the club utilise cameras to prevent such abuse and none is reported then I’d say the tactic was successful. Not sure what being a Burnley fan has to do with anything, other than we got beat to today!

I can smell bull. Why film people if it's not being 'captured'. That's like me saying 'yes I took your photo but "I have no retention on anything captured". Would you believe me having just seen me take your photo?! They really do think we're thick don't they. So if they capture someone shouting to Dempster to die are you telling me they wouldn't keep it as evidence?!

you've misread it Dan. He says the individuals have no retention (ie the stewards filming have no retention). He does not say the club have no retention.

So my original point stands then?!

no.
You said: "Why film people if it's not being 'captured'."
It is being captured, and would presumably be used if someone did indeed shout vile abuse.

[Sneag]

Just because it’s technically legal to film people in the ground for no apparent reason by a steward on their mobile phone, that doesn’t mean it’s ethically or morally correct.

indeed. That is an entirely separate point. I was just clarifying that it was legal, because some seemed to think it wasn't.

The 'legality' of the filming is entirely dependant on how it's being retained, who is retaining and why it's being retained.

Whatever Gabitas II is saying the law is pretty clear on it.

[Sneag]

Just to add from a civil point of view.

Under DPA you can request copies of any CCTV a company may have of you. Submit in writing & the have 1 month to comply.

They can decline to provide copies is 3rd parties are in the background (which they obviously would be in a football crowd), however under these circumstances they should provide facilities for you to come in and view the footage even though you can't have a copy.

Like I said at the outset of this, I have no objection to the club using CCTV for the safety & security of its paying customers & staff. But this targetted stuff appears to be being used as a tool for intimidation & as customers why should we tollerate that?

I also accept the as customers we also have a duty of care and respect for the employees of the club. This needs to be a 2 way street.

[Martin Shaw]

Like I said at the outset of this, I have no objection to the club using CCTV for the safety & security of its paying customers & staff. But this targetted stuff appears to be being used as a tool for intimidation & as customers why should we tollerate that?

If John Albanese is correct, then it is indeed to protect staff.

John Albanese
I would imagine they were asked to switch on the cameras as a precaution should any abusive comments be directed towards the players and manager, which was an issue at a previous match in which Dempster highlighted in his post match interview.

Whether it is morally reasonable to film all supporters in this way remains another matter. It is a balancing act. And I don't know the answer.

[PRL13]

My friend had tp produce his season ticket to get back into the ground because he wasn`t stamped, when he went out for some food.

[Chrisuknottm]

John Albanese
As part of the ground regulations by entering you are agreeing to being filmed, so the argument about is it legal is answered they can film whoever they like.

[/quote]

And this sort of all encompassing statement just beggars belief. We don't buy a season ticket and then look at all the by laws attached to it....why not add...

And you have to buy a bovril and pastie at half term
You can only use the toilets twice
You must not shout too loud because you might wake someone up
You agree to give any club official any amount of cash they may ask you for

And so on.....when I renewed my season ticket no knew specifically said "Oh by the way you do realise...."

Jeez

[Dan]

buried within masses of stuff on facebook, there are a couple of comments by PC John Albanese (successor to Carl Gabbitas):

John Albanese
firstly I’m not the safety officer, nor am I employed by the club or have any responsibility for the stewards or warriors as you address. Secondly I wasn’t at the game today so can’t comment on any decisions made or if any profanities were captured. I was merely trying to clear up the devices used belong to the club and that the individuals have no retention on anything captured. As part of the ground regulations by entering you are agreeing to being filmed, so the argument about is it legal is answered they can film whoever they like.
With regards to Dempster’s press conference, in which he commented about being abused and told to die, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be faced with that when your just trying to do your job, so if the club utilise cameras to prevent such abuse and none is reported then I’d say the tactic was successful. Not sure what being a Burnley fan has to do with anything, other than we got beat to today!

I can smell bull. Why film people if it's not being 'captured'. That's like me saying 'yes I took your photo but "I have no retention on anything captured". Would you believe me having just seen me take your photo?! They really do think we're thick don't they. So if they capture someone shouting to Dempster to die are you telling me they wouldn't keep it as evidence?!

you've misread it Dan. He says the individuals have no retention (ie the stewards filming have no retention). He does not say the club have no retention.

So my original point stands then?!

no.
You said: "Why film people if it's not being 'captured'."
It is being captured, and would presumably be used if someone did indeed shout vile abuse.

You're not reading my point right Martin. I was disputing what the police had said about it not being retained/saved & you've just agreed with me with your last sentence!

[Martin Shaw]

I can smell bull. Why film people if it's not being 'captured'. That's like me saying 'yes I took your photo but "I have no retention on anything captured". Would you believe me having just seen me take your photo?! They really do think we're thick don't they. So if they capture someone shouting to Dempster to die are you telling me they wouldn't keep it as evidence?!

you've misread it Dan. He says the individuals have no retention (ie the stewards filming have no retention). He does not say the club have no retention.

So my original point stands then?!

no.
You said: "Why film people if it's not being 'captured'."
It is being captured, and would presumably be used if someone did indeed shout vile abuse.

You're not reading my point right Martin. I was disputing what the police had said about it not being retained/saved & you've just agreed with me with your last sentence!

The individual stewards who film on the mobile devices do not retain the footage. That was the point the police officer was making.
He did not say the footage was not retained by the club. Clearly the footage is potentially to be used by the club.

[Dan]

The individual stewards who film on the mobile devices do not retain the footage. That was the point the police officer was making.
He did not say the footage was not retained by the club. Clearly the footage is potentially to be used by the club.

So where does the footage go then? If they are pointing it at an individual then clearly it is 'recording' thus being 'retained' on the mobile phone/in the security box. Whether it's being retained for 5 minutes or 5 days, it's still being retained. As I said, someone is telling porkies.

[PEAR CIDER]

spot on