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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sneag » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:05 am

Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:
Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.


:lol: :lol: Same squad?! What about the 20+ goals of Tyler Walker?! I’ve not said anywhere that we’re guaranteed to go up. I’m just pointing out that the previous manager bottled it TWICE yet people seem to ignore the facts. Bizarre really. Yet had it been Steve Evans who had bottled it twice we know what yours & others opinions would be wouldn’t we?! ;)


Maynard and Cook (who he?) will be on a fair whack, they are not loan players. Out budget this season will be pretty much what it was last season, less than 4th then the decision to remove DF was wrong. I am completely behind JD and think he should be given time, but it is typical of some football fans that 5 games in the world has come to an end. If anyone thought by removing DF and installing JD we would be top 3 then they are not living in the real world. It will be a fantastic feat if JD gets us top 7 - under DF I believe we would have been top 3.

Evans is just an odious person and someone I never wanted involved in my club. He's a fraud and his failure at Posh just showed him for what he is. Expectations are high at MTFC these days, many fans think they know what our wage budget is so have unrealistic expectations. I suspect again our budget, like last season, is top 7 but not top 3 but fans will want the manager gone if we do not over perform. You have a choice Dan, you give a manager 3 years (King, Parkin, Dearden, Greaves, Cox) or you fire him for not over-achieving. You have known me long enough to know that I have always believed managers need at least 2 years but preferably 3 seasons. It's not a personal thing, I have never met DF, but anyone who says that some of the games last season were not some of the best seen at the Mill for a long time are just telling lies.



So if JD finishes 7th, but wins at Wembley would the decision to sack DF be a mistake or a bold stroke of genius? ;)
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:30 am

Dan wrote:
Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.


:lol: :lol: Same squad?! What about the 20+ goals of Tyler Walker?! I’ve not said anywhere that we’re guaranteed to go up. I’m just pointing out that the previous manager bottled it TWICE yet people seem to ignore the facts. Bizarre really. Yet had it been Steve Evans who had bottled it twice we know what yours & others opinions would be wouldn’t we?! ;)

It won't be the lack of goals that will prevent us going up Dan. It will be a once solid defence that has suddenly turned into colander.

Cook and Maynard should make up for the loss of Walker. Both scored a lot , one in the league above. But wait a minute they are both currently injured. Bad luck or bad judgement ?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:14 am

Dan wrote:
Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:Absolute rubbish about us being under pressure trying to match Bury's results. Our form was worse than Notts County (who got relegated) from January/February onwards. Nothing to do with Bury & all to do with having a negative manager who bottled it exactly like he did 12 months previous. And I'll keep repeating this until it gets through to some people who clearly can't/won't see that's what caused us to throw promotion away & why he ended up getting the sack from a Chairman who doesn't sack his managers normally!


So we're going up this season then Dan, guaranteed by you? Same budget, pretty much same squad, just must be top 3.


:lol: :lol: Same squad?! What about the 20+ goals of Tyler Walker?! I’ve not said anywhere that we’re guaranteed to go up. I’m just pointing out that the previous manager bottled it TWICE yet people seem to ignore the facts. Bizarre really. Yet had it been Steve Evans who had bottled it twice we know what yours & others opinions would be wouldn’t we?! ;)


If Evans had bottled it twice then yes he would have to go, it would have been his own players. DF took over with no chance to change anything personnel wise and had some difficult games coming up, our run in wasn't the easiest. But let's not ignore the facts.

We replaced Tyler walker with Maynard who score 20 league goals in 37 games. Walker bagged 22 league goals in 44 games. Maynard has the better goals to game ratio. Rose has already scored more goals than last season and we've got cook who had a decent scoring season. But let's not ignore facts.

What contributed to our bottling it was the injuries to Olejnik and White, also the failure to get rid of mirfin, diamond and Anderson. That's a decent chunk of budget which could have got us 3 or 4 more players. Mirfin retired die to injures, diamon retired due to injury and Paul Anderson doesn't have a club because no-one wants him or wants to pay as much as he thinks he's worth. All 3 are Evans signings. All 3 probably cost us a pretty penny.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Conker » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:19 am

To be fair the point he's making that he will be overly positive towards Flitcroft because he likes him, and overly negative towards Evans because he dislikes him is clear for all to see.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby steiner » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:40 am

Anyway back to memories of past clashes between stags and bury and one that still stings is when stanty signed for them and came back to the Mill and smashed us into the middle of next week..cant remember how many he bagged but maybe someone with more memory cells than me can remember that awful day.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:57 am

5 1 to Bury. Stant scored 4.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:11 pm

Conker wrote:To be fair the point he's making that he will be overly positive towards Flitcroft because he likes him, and overly negative towards Evans because he dislikes him is clear for all to see.


You could argue the same about Logan as well. But yeah, I get your point. Unfortunately though Evans is a deplorable character, which is plain to see, some were happy with his performance (don't see why, he never had a bottle to lose at the end of the season) what Evans did was Paul Cox football with more flair in the final third on a bigger budget.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby steiner » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:41 pm

NorthLondonStag wrote:5 1 to Bury. Stant scored 4.

Cheers mucker
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby jeevesthestag » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:16 pm

steiner wrote:Anyway back to memories of past clashes between stags and bury and one that still stings is when stanty signed for them and came back to the Mill and smashed us into the middle of next week..cant remember how many he bagged but maybe someone with more memory cells than me can remember that awful day.


The only time I can ever remember the whole crowd (home and away fans) giving a player a standing ovation! What a legend!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Dan » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:04 pm

jeevesthestag wrote:
steiner wrote:Anyway back to memories of past clashes between stags and bury and one that still stings is when stanty signed for them and came back to the Mill and smashed us into the middle of next week..cant remember how many he bagged but maybe someone with more memory cells than me can remember that awful day.


The only time I can ever remember the whole crowd (home and away fans) giving a player a standing ovation! What a legend!


I remember being stood in the North Stand whilst Stanty was doing forward rolls celebrating his goals & all of us clapping him! :lol:
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby The One » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:00 pm

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:40 pm

If the EFL reinstated Bury then that would still mean relegating a League 2 club this season who actually paid their players and staff in full last season and this season. How would that be fair? Bury should have been relegated to the National League last season. No pay no play!

Looking at the latest tweets, it seems that Andy Burnham is now suggesting that a National League club should not be promoted this season which again would be completely unfair.

I cannot see the EFL clubs agreeing to this or the FA which oversees most of the football pyramid.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:58 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:If the EFL reinstated Bury then that would still mean relegating a League 2 club this season who actually paid their players and staff in full last season and this season. How would that be fair? Bury should have been relegated to the National League last season. No pay no play!

Looking at the latest tweets, it seems that Andy Burnham is now suggesting that a National League club should not be promoted this season which again would be completely unfair.

I cannot see the EFL clubs agreeing to this or the FA which oversees most of the football pyramid.
I totally agree with you.

I know he is mayor of Manchester and needs votes, but Andy Burnham has gone down in my estimation.

Still feel sorry for the fans and those who have lost jobs. The club should start five leagues lower. Other wise clubs won't be deterred from doing the same thing.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:06 pm

There is also no new ownership or a football club to reinstate at the moment. Bury fans need to put all their efforts into setting up their own phoenix club. If Bury FC is liquidated then Gigg Lane will be sold and the new club can then try and do a deal with whoever buys it. There is supposed to be a covenant on the ground saying it can only be used for football purposes.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:43 am

In practice covenants mean nothing as I understand only the person placing the covenant can enforce it. As an example of their ineffectiveness there is a covenant on the land on which Asda at Forest Town stands. It states that the land cannot be used for the sale of goods or alcohol.

Point made
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby adamstag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:50 am

The folk don’t seem to understand that if you lose your licence it’s not just to that particular league it’s to the whole EFL, if bury were a championship side they’d still have been thrown out.

Given how harsh the conference board is (one of the few things they do which actually make sense) there would be no chance that they’d be allowed to compete in either the conference or conference north either.

Whyever would you then keep the same club/model with all the debts, it would be far more logical to start again.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby part time pete » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:53 am

It will be interesting how long the HMRC wait for their 25% of the £1m that they are owed before they put in a winding up order.

Everyone knows SD will not cough up the cash.

So is there a time limit for the CVA to be paid before the company/club is wounded up/liquidated.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:13 am

Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby adamstag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:38 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.


I was on the understanding that if you're not paid your wages you can "serve notice" on the club - that's the type of thing the Bolton players did in the summer - so I'm sure the same would apply to them
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:00 am

adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.


I was on the understanding that if you're not paid your wages you can "serve notice" on the club - that's the type of thing the Bolton players did in the summer - so I'm sure the same would apply to them


Yes I understand that but it's the rules around the transfer window that I am questioning. By all accounts, as I understand it, the players had been paid and had not served notice so on the day the window closed, they were still contracted to a club. I don't suppose they will get anymore money and will leave their contracts very soon. BUT can they still sign for another club between Windows or will they have to wait until January?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby adamstag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:07 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.


I was on the understanding that if you're not paid your wages you can "serve notice" on the club - that's the type of thing the Bolton players did in the summer - so I'm sure the same would apply to them


Yes I understand that but it's the rules around the transfer window that I am questioning. By all accounts, as I understand it, the players had been paid and had not served notice so on the day the window closed, they were still contracted to a club. I don't suppose they will get anymore money and will leave their contracts very soon. BUT can they still sign for another club between Windows or will they have to wait until January?


Well they'd become a free agent on that basis, so I assume so
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:11 am

adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.


I was on the understanding that if you're not paid your wages you can "serve notice" on the club - that's the type of thing the Bolton players did in the summer - so I'm sure the same would apply to them


Yes I understand that but it's the rules around the transfer window that I am questioning. By all accounts, as I understand it, the players had been paid and had not served notice so on the day the window closed, they were still contracted to a club. I don't suppose they will get anymore money and will leave their contracts very soon. BUT can they still sign for another club between Windows or will they have to wait until January?


Well they'd become a free agent on that basis, so I assume so



As I understand it, they have to be a free agent before the window closes or clubs would just release players they wanted to transfer.

It's a unique situation and I wondered if there is anything in the rules to cover it.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby NorthLondonStag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:30 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
adamstag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Does anyone know if the players can still sign for other clubs now the transfer window has shut?

If they were still on the books and being paid at the time of closure, is there a clause in the rules to allow for these circumstances ?.

I know Bury were no longer a league club at closure time but probably still retained the registrations and had possibly paid them.


I was on the understanding that if you're not paid your wages you can "serve notice" on the club - that's the type of thing the Bolton players did in the summer - so I'm sure the same would apply to them


Yes I understand that but it's the rules around the transfer window that I am questioning. By all accounts, as I understand it, the players had been paid and had not served notice so on the day the window closed, they were still contracted to a club. I don't suppose they will get anymore money and will leave their contracts very soon. BUT can they still sign for another club between Windows or will they have to wait until January?


Well they'd become a free agent on that basis, so I assume so



As I understand it, they have to be a free agent before the window closes or clubs would just release players they wanted to transfer.

It's a unique situation and I wondered if there is anything in the rules to cover it.


Exactly. So maybe it’s no coincidence that the announcement comes just before the deadline. It gets him off our books but also frees him up to get another club outside the window so the timing suits everyone.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:13 pm

That wonderful bloke Steve Dale who has done a great job saving Bury, even though he does not like football and did not know Bury had a team, has taken 23 payments out of the football club since January amounting to more than £115,000.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bury ... -3vhvpppcm
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby NorthLondonStag » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:52 pm

It says on the bbc that they are going to consult with the other clubs about whether Bury can come back into League Two next season.
If that did happen presumably we would be back to two relegation spots from League Teo
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