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Bury FC Courtcase

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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Johnny Rotten » Thu May 30, 2019 5:47 pm

gazza1988 wrote:Here's a hypothetical (but still possible) question/scenario.

Last game of the season. After claims of "walking the league" after beating an u8s girls team 1-0 Notts county find themselves threatened with relegation. So do the spirites. Final game is Chesterfield vs County. One will be saved and one will be relegated, there are no other permutations that can save both or relegate both.

Who do we want to get relegated?


Hands down, Counteh. The fact they think they are so entitled is enough for me
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby marker_mtfc95 » Thu May 30, 2019 7:15 pm

Looks like Lowe off to manage Plymouth.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Thu May 30, 2019 9:10 pm

marker_mtfc95 wrote:Looks like Lowe off to manage Plymouth.


If true wouldn't bet against him coming back for their decent players seeing as they aren't being paid.
We should be looking at the likes of Mayor, O'Shea and Maynard if we want to improve.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby stagsfan6493 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:26 am

Woodclanger 1 wrote:
marker_mtfc95 wrote:Looks like Lowe off to manage Plymouth.


If true wouldn't bet against him coming back for their decent players seeing as they aren't being paid.
We should be looking at the likes of Mayor, O'Shea and Maynard if we want to improve.

Doubt they would come here, especially as we have moneybags Salford down the road from Bury and Lowe potentially at Plymouth.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri May 31, 2019 10:27 am

It would not surprise me if Danny Mayor, Jay O'Shea, Nicky Maynard, Nicky Adams and most of the Bury team sign for Billionaire & 6 Millionaires (Salford) City.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri May 31, 2019 10:40 am

Just read David Conn's article on Bury. The Shakers look well and truly stuffed

- Total debts over £8 million
- £4.5 million owed to Mederco Ltd (Former Chairman, Stewart Day's (SD1) company which is now in administration)
- £3.7 million owed to Capital Bridging Finance Solutions taken out during SD1's tenure which new owner and Chairman, Steve Dale (SD2) says carry interest of almost £1,500 a day. Loans are secured on Gigg Lane.
- £800,000 owed to HMRC

"Dale said he was aiming to agree a settlement of the loan on Gigg Lane, then he may transfer the stadium to a company he has formed, Bury Leisure Ltd, and the club could pay rent to play there until he is paid off. Some of the club’s trophies and memorabilia have been transferred to another new Dale company, Bury Heritage; Dale has denied that this is asset stripping and said it was for safeguarding, because bailiffs had been seeking to repossess them on behalf of creditors.

He has said publicly that he is looking to lay off staff, who have also had to wait for their wages. His aim, he said, was to reach a settlement with the other creditors too, which would enable Bury to survive the winding-up petition. “I didn’t create the mess,” he said, “although yes, it has accrued and got worse while I’ve been there. It’s like being stuck in the dam; you’ve only got so many fingers to put in the holes.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ition-debt
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby bobbystagsfan » Fri May 31, 2019 11:12 am

the buckets won't save you this time
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Captain Cunno » Fri May 31, 2019 11:41 am

The HMRC bill will be the end of them.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby stagtastic1 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:35 am

How ironic though that if they go under that we will be staying in this division whilst the sixth placed team gets promoted and our neighbours gain a reprieve and are reinstated as the worlds oldest professional league club .
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:25 am

stagtastic1 wrote:How ironic though that if they go under that we will be staying in this division whilst the sixth placed team gets promoted and our neighbours gain a reprieve and are reinstated as the worlds oldest professional league club .

Everything that’s wrong with football.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:47 am

Notts county wouldn't stay up. Bury are now in league one. There would be one less team in league one next season.

"Under the admission and retirements of clubs rules, it states: "During the period between the conclusion of the last play-off match and the start of the following season, its playing record (club retiring) shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the division in which a club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of clubs ceasing to be members and, during that season, the relevant division shall operate with a reduced number of clubs.”

Bye bye county. They are gone.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby SINA STAG » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:59 am

stagtastic1 wrote:How ironic though that if they go under that we will be staying in this division whilst the sixth placed team gets promoted and our neighbours gain a reprieve and are reinstated as the worlds oldest professional league club .




I thought Newport finished 6th n Tramere 5th

But I know what you mean regarding County but I can't see that happening because if Bolton go under as well Yeovil will ask the same question of being reinstated.

Easier for the EFL to run with 1 short in each league n sort it out with promotions next season bringing 1 extra team from Division 1 Division 2 n the Conference to rebalance the leagues or relegate 1 less from the Championship n league 1
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Jamie » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:01 am

Newport finished 7th, hence playing us in 4th...
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby I am Spartacus » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:19 am

Where we finished, who finished where, what debt Bury and County are in, how close to being consigned to history Bolton are or indeed what Leagues 1 and 2 are doing is of no interest to the fans of ‘media brands’ in the Premier League. The Premier League and similar leagues and teams throughout Europe is a horrible, greedy, all powerful, voracious, self centred, self absorbed, brand obsessed and morally bankrupt completion that is not interested in the likes of the teams that you and I love.

The FA, PFA, Football League, UEFA and to some extent the police (kick off times etc) have sleep walked into handing the Premier League the control of football. If they can sell another subscription, another sponsorship package and ignore what is happening to Bury, Bolton and the County’s of this world in doing so they will.

The only way to derail this juggernaut is to cancel your subscriptions, don’t buy the weak as urine lagers, don’t watch match of the day, don’t log onto their websites, don’t gamble with their sponsors and don’t take an interest in it. The end of it and possibly the rebirth of English football needs it.

Before anyone says that, ‘I am just one man’, remember it took one man to boo Nicolae Ceaușescu at his Christmas address before the whole square did the same and his regime came crashing down.

Kill your Television!!
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:43 am

I am Spartacus wrote:Where we finished, who finished where, what debt Bury and County are in, how close to being consigned to history Bolton are or indeed what Leagues 1 and 2 are doing is of no interest to the fans of ‘media brands’ in the Premier League. The Premier League and similar leagues and teams throughout Europe is a horrible, greedy, all powerful, voracious, self centred, self absorbed, brand obsessed and morally bankrupt completion that is not interested in the likes of the teams that you and I love.

The FA, PFA, Football League, UEFA and to some extent the police (kick off times etc) have sleep walked into handing the Premier League the control of football. If they can sell another subscription, another sponsorship package and ignore what is happening to Bury, Bolton and the County’s of this world in doing so they will.

The only way to derail this juggernaut is to cancel your subscriptions, don’t buy the weak as urine lagers, don’t watch match of the day, don’t log onto their websites, don’t gamble with their sponsors and don’t take an interest in it. The end of it and possibly the rebirth of English football needs it.

Before anyone says that, ‘I am just one man’, remember it took one man to boo Nicolae Ceaușescu at his Christmas address before the whole square did the same and his regime came crashing down.

Kill your Television!!
I agree with a lot of that.

Will I be watching the game tonight? No. Even if it's on normal tv (I don't know if it is or not because I havn't bothered to look) I wouldn't watch it.

The media started going overboard about since Thursday, and I'm fed up hearing about it already. :?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:30 pm

Sedgwick wrote:Notts county wouldn't stay up. Bury are now in league one. There would be one less team in league one next season.

"Under the admission and retirements of clubs rules, it states: "During the period between the conclusion of the last play-off match and the start of the following season, its playing record (club retiring) shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the division in which a club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of clubs ceasing to be members and, during that season, the relevant division shall operate with a reduced number of clubs.”

Bye bye county. They are gone.


I still think the wording of that rule is far from clear and I think Plymouth Argyle could argue to stay in League 1 and League 2 operate with 23 clubs. It depends upon the meaning of the "the relevant division?"

You also have to remember that League 1 clubs could complain about losing the income from a home match and the impact on their season ticket holders and therefore put pressure on the EFL to hold the AGM Cup which would then give County a good chance of surviving. That in turn would have a knock on effect on the rest of the football pyramid.

It's not over until the Chairman of the EFL brings the AGM in Portugal to an end which should take place in the next few weeks.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:34 pm

The fixtures come out in 2.5 weeks Tippy, which means they must be working on them now.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby tinman » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:17 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:Where we finished, who finished where, what debt Bury and County are in, how close to being consigned to history Bolton are or indeed what Leagues 1 and 2 are doing is of no interest to the fans of ‘media brands’ in the Premier League. The Premier League and similar leagues and teams throughout Europe is a horrible, greedy, all powerful, voracious, self centred, self absorbed, brand obsessed and morally bankrupt completion that is not interested in the likes of the teams that you and I love.

The FA, PFA, Football League, UEFA and to some extent the police (kick off times etc) have sleep walked into handing the Premier League the control of football. If they can sell another subscription, another sponsorship package and ignore what is happening to Bury, Bolton and the County’s of this world in doing so they will.

The only way to derail this juggernaut is to cancel your subscriptions, don’t buy the weak as urine lagers, don’t watch match of the day, don’t log onto their websites, don’t gamble with their sponsors and don’t take an interest in it. The end of it and possibly the rebirth of English football needs it.

Before anyone says that, ‘I am just one man’, remember it took one man to boo Nicolae Ceaușescu at his Christmas address before the whole square did the same and his regime came crashing down.

Kill your Television!!


Nothing to do with football at all but if you ever get to see the behind the scenes footage of Ceausescu in his palace while the crowd were after his blood in the square below is worth a watch. Does get a bit gory and shows how quick things can happen
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby robeyre » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:26 pm

All this uncertainty is no bad thing in my opinion.
It reminds me of way back when when Stags finished third in old 3rd division tand lost out on promotion. Just after final whistle a rumour started that Carlisle (the division champions) had applied to join Scottish league and that if successful Stags were up! That thought sustained me all through the summer hols, but really ruined my August. Just think how all the county fans will feel when this happens to them, will feel like they've been relegated twice. :-)
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:42 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Notts county wouldn't stay up. Bury are now in league one. There would be one less team in league one next season.

"Under the admission and retirements of clubs rules, it states: "During the period between the conclusion of the last play-off match and the start of the following season, its playing record (club retiring) shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the division in which a club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of clubs ceasing to be members and, during that season, the relevant division shall operate with a reduced number of clubs.”

Bye bye county. They are gone.


I still think the wording of that rule is far from clear and I think Plymouth Argyle could argue to stay in League 1 and League 2 operate with 23 clubs. It depends upon the meaning of the "the relevant division?"

You also have to remember that League 1 clubs could complain about losing the income from a home match and the impact on their season ticket holders and therefore put pressure on the EFL to hold the AGM Cup which would then give County a good chance of surviving. That in turn would have a knock on effect on the rest of the football pyramid.

It's not over until the Chairman of the EFL brings the AGM in Portugal to an end which should take place in the next few weeks.


It's pretty clear to be honest, literally what it says on the tin. Bury are league one now, league one is the relevant division. League one would simply have to operate with one less team. There's not really a way around it.doesnt matter if league one clubs complain, they are the rules. The fixtures will be out in two weeks and league two will not be any different team wise. The rule is there so a team like county for example or Plymouth know what league they will be in with plenty of time to prepare, it's not going to change. County are gone, end of discussion.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:01 pm

The main problem for County is that Bury are not likely to go bust until after the AGM but if I were Plymouth and County then I would still be trying to get it discussed at the AGM. There will be some lobbying going on behind the scenes and leagues can always agree to waive or change their rules if there is support from the member clubs. It's not all over for County until the EFL AGM.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:37 pm

Will County be at the AGM if they aren't a league club?

If not someone else would have to raise their case and who would do that?
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Jun 01, 2019 4:52 pm

I think the relegated clubs still get invited to the EGM as they are still members of the EFL until that date. I'm pretty sure from memory that Hasloan was invited to the EFL AGM in 2008.

If Bury go bust then this is a situation that the EFL have not had to deal with since 1992 when the old Maidstone United went bust. If I were Alan Hardy and Notts County (or even the owners of Plymouth Argyle) then I would have my lawyers crawling all over the EFL rules. I would be asking for the EFL to obtain financial guarantees from Bury FC that they will able to fulfill their fixtures next season and that if these are not provided within a month then Bury FC should be expelled from the League with County retaining their status. I would also be running a big PR campaign and lobbying the other owners in the Football League to try and get them on side.

The problem for County and Alan Hardy is that they probably cannot afford to pay the legal fees at the moment and there is no guarantee they could fulfill their league fixtures next season due to their financial problems. Alan Hardy may also have alienated some of the other owners so they may not be supportive.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby garlic » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:32 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:Where we finished, who finished where, what debt Bury and County are in, how close to being consigned to history Bolton are or indeed what Leagues 1 and 2 are doing is of no interest to the fans of ‘media brands’ in the Premier League. The Premier League and similar leagues and teams throughout Europe is a horrible, greedy, all powerful, voracious, self centred, self absorbed, brand obsessed and morally bankrupt completion that is not interested in the likes of the teams that you and I love.

The FA, PFA, Football League, UEFA and to some extent the police (kick off times etc) have sleep walked into handing the Premier League the control of football. If they can sell another subscription, another sponsorship package and ignore what is happening to Bury, Bolton and the County’s of this world in doing so they will.

The only way to derail this juggernaut is to cancel your subscriptions, don’t buy the weak as urine lagers, don’t watch match of the day, don’t log onto their websites, don’t gamble with their sponsors and don’t take an interest in it. The end of it and possibly the rebirth of English football needs it.

Before anyone says that, ‘I am just one man’, remember it took one man to boo Nicolae Ceaușescu at his Christmas address before the whole square did the same and his regime came crashing down.

Kill your Television!!

Excellent piece of writing. Fortunately I live in an area which still gets a lot of soccer ` free to air` but I would never, ever pay to watch a soccer match on tv, nor would i drink their cold, gassy,piss coloured lager that they call beer.
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Re: Bury FC Courtcase

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:33 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I think the relegated clubs still get invited to the EGM as they are still members of the EFL until that date. I'm pretty sure from memory that Hasloan was invited to the EFL AGM in 2008.

If Bury go bust then this is a situation that the EFL have not had to deal with since 1992 when the old Maidstone United went bust. If I were Alan Hardy and Notts County (or even the owners of Plymouth Argyle) then I would have my lawyers crawling all over the EFL rules. I would be asking for the EFL to obtain financial guarantees from Bury FC that they will able to fulfill their fixtures next season and that if these are not provided within a month then Bury FC should be expelled from the League with County retaining their status. I would also be running a big PR campaign and lobbying the other owners in the Football League to try and get them on side.

The problem for County and Alan Hardy is that they probably cannot afford to pay the legal fees at the moment and there is no guarantee they could fulfill their league fixtures next season due to their financial problems. Alan Hardy may also have alienated some of the other owners so they may not be supportive.


The problem for Notts County is, and will be, that winkle-flasher Hardy. Who would want to throw him a lifeline?
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