Players refusing to be subbed

[Fitzy499]

After the debacle of the carabao cup final with Chelsea keeper Kepa refusing to be subbed. Has anyone else witnessed anything like that before I know in the 30 years of watching the stags and other football I haven’t. Or any other bizzare incidents during games

[part time pete]

I remember my elder brother in a Sunday League game refusing to be subbed.

He was the captain and most experienced player in the side though and perhaps past his best.

[julianshatnasty]

Didn't Les Sealey do something similar in the 1991 League Cup final and became a hero for it?

[Spiritater]

Premiership players are too big for their boots, the lad should be heavily fined and left to rot in the reserves for the rest of the season. How long will it be before some £450,000 p/w player does the same thinking 'I'm so important, I know best and I don't like the guy in charge'.

[stagone1959]

Can remember Russ Allen being crocked and begging to come off,we had made all our subs and manager refused him.He was left hopping around the half way line having to put up with the brick bats the crowd were aiming his way.

[Iliketrains]

First of all it stems from pathetic leadership from the owner Abramovich. A more vacant a face you will never see on another man so long as you live. Even more vacant is his running of his football club. Yes they win things which obviously takes priority over any morals or discipline it seems, but they have contributed greatly to this swing in power from manager over player to player over manager. The Premier League and Chelsea actually deserve one another.

We all know that football moves on and certain management styles become archaic but isn't it tragic to say that if one of English football's greatest ever managers (Brian Clough) were managing today, he wouldn't last 5 minutes. The respect from players has all but disappeared and been replaced by entitlement, selfishness and ego.

Chelsea are part of the cause of this shift in power along with the big clubs. A manager who comes into Stamford Bridge has to firstly win over the players and that's even before any tactics or training can take effect. Managing today's top footballers is half managing their ego's and man management and half managing the football side of things. Today's top footballers are like babies and they need constant care, praise and attention. They don't have fully developed minds of their own anymore and need to be coerced by platitudes and money.

If the players don't like the new manager then they 'down tools' A phrase so often banded about when actually what it should be replaced by is 'throw a strop' or 'become unprofessional'. If i was having a triple heart bypass operation then i could be sure that the surgeon was equally as focussed whether he'd fallen out with his boss that morning or not but footballers are sensitive souls and need to get what they want.

They get what they want because of clubs like Chelsea who pay them about a million times what the manager earns when in most normal organizations there is a management hierarchy and that usually means those at the top get paid more than those at the bottom. Only in football the manager is at the bottom and the players at the top. This isn't really a problem at Chelsea however as even though you are at the bottom as a manager you still walk away with millions of pounds if you aren't liked by the players after 6 months.

Players are worth money now too in terms of transfer value which is the main reason why they have so much power. Take Eden Hazard for example. He could refuse to do anything the manager tells him to and yet the manager will still pick him. He has to. Because the owner doesn't want a player worth multiple millions wasting away on the bench and affecting his market value.

Take Kepa for example. He will be guaranteed to play next time out because he's the world's most expensive goalkeeper. By rights he shouldn't play for Chelsea again after his shenanigans but he will even if Sarri wanted to make an example out of him and exercise some discipline. He will continue to play because he's worth a lot of money. Kepa knows it and Sarri knows it.

This is modern football at the very top level ladies and gentlemen and i for one detest it all.

Money and stupid, rich owners have destroyed it all.

Anyway, on that bombshell....Partridge is back tonight! Love to see him given a crack at Chelsea lol

You give the ball to him and you score a goal.

[victor A block]

If the board goes up with a players number on, surely the ref was also at fault. he could have booked him for time wasting, and then given a second yellow if he still didn't get off the pitch?????
Glad the baby faced brat lost and dives over Agueros slow motion daisy cutter. . And where was captain "Az im a quitter" who reckoned he never saw it.

[ST4GS]

If the board goes up with a players number on, surely the ref was also at fault. he could have booked him for time wasting, and then given a second yellow if he still didn't get off the pitch?????
Glad the baby faced brat lost and dives over Agueros slow motion daisy cutter. . And where was captain "Az im a quitter" who reckoned he never saw it.

Exactly. This point has been lost/totally overlooked.
Next time the Stags make a tactical substitution to run down the clock and one of our players ambles off at snail pace you can guarantee the ref will book him for time wasting. How did Chelsea get away with it?, one rule for the rich? or again poor / inconsistent refereeing?

[Foresttownstag]

Was at Wembley yesterday for the game. Easily one of the strangest things I’ve ever seen, Kepa should be ashamed of himself.

[Jamie]

They've said it was a misunderstanding and thst they were only doing the sub because the keeper had cramp. He was then signalling that he was ok to continue. They didn't want to sub him...

[Rob]

If the board goes up with a players number on, surely the ref was also at fault. he could have booked him for time wasting, and then given a second yellow if he still didn't get off the pitch?????
Glad the baby faced brat lost and dives over Agueros slow motion daisy cutter. . And where was captain "Az im a quitter" who reckoned he never saw it.

Exactly. This point has been lost/totally overlooked.
Next time the Stags make a tactical substitution to run down the clock and one of our players ambles off at snail pace you can guarantee the ref will book him for time wasting. How did Chelsea get away with it?, one rule for the rich? or again poor / inconsistent refereeing?

The ref had stopped his watch and went over to the benches to check if they intended to make a sub, he did the right thing and frankly it is absurd that you seek to blame him - can you imagine if he had started chucking cards about? He did well, diffused a bizarre incident for which only one person is to blame.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

The right thing for Sarri to do was to bring Willy Cabellero on for the penalty shoot out. He had saved three penalties in 2015-2016 and City's players would have felt uncomfortable facing their former keeper. Horses for courses.

Kepa was like a spoilt kid threatening to take his ball home. It was disrespectful to Sarri and Cabellero.

[ST4GS]

If the board goes up with a players number on, surely the ref was also at fault. he could have booked him for time wasting, and then given a second yellow if he still didn't get off the pitch?????
Glad the baby faced brat lost and dives over Agueros slow motion daisy cutter. . And where was captain "Az im a quitter" who reckoned he never saw it.

Exactly. This point has been lost/totally overlooked.
Next time the Stags make a tactical substitution to run down the clock and one of our players ambles off at snail pace you can guarantee the ref will book him for time wasting. How did Chelsea get away with it?, one rule for the rich? or again poor / inconsistent refereeing?

The ref had stopped his watch and went over to the benches to check if they intended to make a sub, he did the right thing and frankly it is absurd that you seek to blame him - can you imagine if he had started chucking cards about? He did well, diffused a bizarre incident for which only one person is to blame.

Ok. Blame is probably the wrong statement but do the laws of the game allow a team up to two minutes to make a substitution? (exception being injuries)
This was not a misunderstanding in my opinion despite the retrospective spin put on it by Chelsea as the substitution was still requested all the way up until the ref waved play on. It was a blatant act of petulance from the keeper that leaves a bad taste and probably brings the game into disrepute. If the ref had flashed a yellow (he would have easily been able to justified this action) I doubt anyone could or would have complained. It is a pity the referee did not brandish the yellow for the good of the game and to check any future conduct issues.
What I could not understand is that when the play was stopped the fourth official did not show the substitution board (unless I missed this?) - any idea why not , is this protocol. I thought the ref is normally notified by the fourth official that a substitution is requested with the fourth official already aware of the details of the change, the game is then stopped when there is a break in play and the board immediately raised? Why the delay?

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Three possible reasons to give Kepa Arrizabalaga a yellow card?

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

[Spiritater]

First of all it stems from pathetic leadership from the owner Abramovich. A more vacant a face you will never see on another man so long as you live. Even more vacant is his running of his football club. Yes they win things which obviously takes priority over any morals or discipline it seems, but they have contributed greatly to this swing in power from manager over player to player over manager. The Premier League and Chelsea actually deserve one another.

We all know that football moves on and certain management styles become archaic but isn't it tragic to say that if one of English football's greatest ever managers (Brian Clough) were managing today, he wouldn't last 5 minutes. The respect from players has all but disappeared and been replaced by entitlement, selfishness and ego.

Chelsea are part of the cause of this shift in power along with the big clubs. A manager who comes into Stamford Bridge has to firstly win over the players and that's even before any tactics or training can take effect. Managing today's top footballers is half managing their ego's and man management and half managing the football side of things. Today's top footballers are like babies and they need constant care, praise and attention. They don't have fully developed minds of their own anymore and need to be coerced by platitudes and money.

If the players don't like the new manager then they 'down tools' A phrase so often banded about when actually what it should be replaced by is 'throw a strop' or 'become unprofessional'. If i was having a triple heart bypass operation then i could be sure that the surgeon was equally as focussed whether he'd fallen out with his boss that morning or not but footballers are sensitive souls and need to get what they want.

They get what they want because of clubs like Chelsea who pay them about a million times what the manager earns when in most normal organizations there is a management hierarchy and that usually means those at the top get paid more than those at the bottom. Only in football the manager is at the bottom and the players at the top. This isn't really a problem at Chelsea however as even though you are at the bottom as a manager you still walk away with millions of pounds if you aren't liked by the players after 6 months.

Players are worth money now too in terms of transfer value which is the main reason why they have so much power. Take Eden Hazard for example. He could refuse to do anything the manager tells him to and yet the manager will still pick him. He has to. Because the owner doesn't want a player worth multiple millions wasting away on the bench and affecting his market value.

Take Kepa for example. He will be guaranteed to play next time out because he's the world's most expensive goalkeeper. By rights he shouldn't play for Chelsea again after his shenanigans but he will even if Sarri wanted to make an example out of him and exercise some discipline. He will continue to play because he's worth a lot of money. Kepa knows it and Sarri knows it.

This is modern football at the very top level ladies and gentlemen and i for one detest it all.

Money and stupid, rich owners have destroyed it all.

Anyway, on that bombshell....Partridge is back tonight! Love to see him given a crack at Chelsea lol

You give the ball to him and you score a goal.

Good to see Partridge back, very underrated presenter. Knowing Me Knowing You was a classic. Tony Hayers didn't know a good thing when he had it.

[sunray]

I think Clough subbed a player but did not put on another player. Said the player coming off was useless so didn't need a replacement.

[Rob]

Three possible reasons to give Kepa Arrizabalaga a yellow card?

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

I am not saying he couldn't have booked him, I'm saying he was right not to - he retained full control of the match even if the bench didn't! Clearly this was a very unusual situation and had the referee cautioned the keeper things could have escalated pretty quickly. Mike Dean would have had the keeper, Sarri and a few spectators off in a flash, he'd have then celebrated his decision with Aguero.

[MOTG]

And not so long ago and on our doorstep didn't Paul Anderson allegedly refuse to play a certain position and was therefore left out repeatedly by DF ?

[Big yella]

Three possible reasons to give Kepa Arrizabalaga a yellow card?

Cautionable offences
A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences:
• unsporting behaviour
• dissent by word or action
• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game
• delaying the restart of play
• failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner
kick, free kick or throw-in
• entering or re-entering the field of play without the referee’s permission
• deliberately leaving the field of play without the referee’s permission

I am not saying he couldn't have booked him, I'm saying he was right not to - he retained full control of the match even if the bench didn't! Clearly this was a very unusual situation and had the referee cautioned the keeper things could have escalated pretty quickly. Mike Dean would have had the keeper, Sarri and a few spectators off in a flash, he'd have then celebrated his decision with Aguero.

So when a referee, in the view of both sides, gets it wrong by applying the letter of the law, you say he's right. Yet when he doesn't apply the letter of the law he's still right. Gotcha.

At least your consistency in supporting their inconsistency is consistent.

[Empty FC]

What baffled me was
How the hell does a Keeper get Cramp ??

[EdwinstoweStag]

What baffled me was
How the hell does a Keeper get Cramp ??

Being over-enthusiastic when indulging in self-abuse, perhaps?