Youngsters released?

[yorkshire stag]

i guess when one is good enough, they will be used maybe?

[PEAR CIDER]

I’ve spoken to a couple of the lads up at the RH academy and they know nothing about it .
With the lads frozen out by the manager it’s very difficult for the lads confidence .i spoke to Zayn and he has had an ankle problem for a little while but says he is fine now .We have a striker shortage and to me he ticks all the boxes .Big strong and fast.If he were languishing in the reserves at a championship club he would stand a chance .But hey ho is one of ours so not deemed good enough.

For someone with such an important role in a professional club, I don't find it right you post on a fans message board spouting such tripe. It's not at all professional and can't imagine a director at any other club doing so. I know how passionate you are but leave it off here and focus on the club.


As for being frozen out... They're kids. Are you suggesting the manager risks promotion for the sake of giving minutes to kids over players the chairman has invested heavily in??!

And for being good enough, that's the managers decision and I back him. I've been around the set up at Derby and it's streets ahead of ours and the recruitment is top notch. I'll use Timi as an example, he's played in premier League 2 quite comfortably and got Derby in and around the top 3 of a very good league with the likes of Chelsea, city and united. Can you honestly say any of our kids are even close to his quality? Timi at present is only good enough for League two, so where does that leave our kids standard at?

I've seen most of our youth lads and they look and play like boys, not men. The manager is clearly trying to bring the youth through, gibbens, Smith, Graham, law and all the others he played in the cup game. Just because he's not picking the few players you think will do well DOES NOT mean they are being frozen out, in fact that's such a ludicrous statement and nasty dig at a manager who's doing really well.

If you're bitter the training ground isn't up to scratch yet and those professional footballers would rather play on actuall grass than wow who ever is responsible for the players having to train on 4G needs sacking. When I was at Derby the first team was strictly banned from going near it and could only do incredibly light work on the indoor like stretching and jogging/ bit of passing when the weather was bad. We used to play staff matches after work at moor farm and was always told, "an ambulance will takes 25 minutes".

As no hunger in paradise proves, most youth setups are failing kids and it's not the managers fault.

The arrogance of people in and around some of these cat1 academies is shocking, hence your reaction Sedgwick. Pride, passion and commitment count as much as talent. I would sooner see a law over Elsnik and hakeem over sterling James, they grow up with a desire to play for MTFC and you know you will get 100%. Have to say some of these mercenaries and young lads you see like Anderson, elsnik don’t give a damn about our club and as a result you don’t get the same commitment, passion as a youth teamer of your own. Also it’s the way a club like ours will make money in the future, we need to develop the talent we have. We ain’t going to make no money out of elsnik and Anderson

I can see both sides of this debate.

However, what IS the point in investing in a youth development structure that isn’t likely to bring talent to the first team?

It seems to me that, if the management see no value in development, then why all the involvement with Brooksby and, recently, the money invested by JR and SH in creating the RH facility?

I think we ALL want to see kids coming through, but they HAVE to be good enough. I guess we just have to trust DF and his team to make the judgement calls.

There is a time and place to bringing kids into the team...

NOT playing county away or not when we are riding a rough patch and trying to cement our places in the automatics.

DF would have been watching the lads during reserve fixtures. He'll know who can make the grade or not.

But as people have said... not one of the current match day squad would be replaced by a youth teamer if everyone was fit.

[Dan]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

[stagmanrob]

They should all be playing in the Chickenfeed Trophy and all clubs should show unity in doing the same with their own youngsters. They claim the competition is for the development of English youngsters by including all the Premier League academies, yet most of them are foreigners who end up playing.

The majority of the England team has players developed lower down the leagues anyway when you look at their history.

[Chris M]

Steve is a "heart on the sleeve" type of guy who cares deeply about the club and the youth set up.

Occasionally with that type of personality you will get outbursts of passion. (I should know!).

Whilst unconventional in these politically correct times it is refreshing to read his thoughts on the gradation of young lads to the first team.

If Steve was only here for the seat in the boardroom and prawn sandwiches he would keep quiet.

[PEAR CIDER]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

That's the point dan. You wouldn't know. It's a HUGE risk to DF and to Radfords. What's the point of having a youth teamer on the bench if they are not going to get picked above someone else who we KNOW is good enough. Stick to what you know and have your matchday squad - in the league

The main aim for Radfords is promotion and having the best match day squad available is essential.

People would moan if we dropped youth teamers in and lost.

Cup games... crack on. get them in.

[gazza1988]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

Like you say, a reserve fixture isn't the same as a league fixture. Why would a kid get in ahead of a seasoned Pro, probably on 5-10x the wage. Jordan Graham would probably get a start on Saturday alongside Ajose, but he's injured. We may very well go with a youth striker on the bench.

Imagine if DF started a youth teamers and he was like a fish out of water and we drop out of the autos, there'd be hell to pay.

[Dan]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

Like you say, a reserve fixture isn't the same as a league fixture. Why would a kid get in ahead of a seasoned Pro, probably on 5-10x the wage. Jordan Graham would probably get a start on Saturday alongside Ajose, but he's injured. We may very well go with a youth striker on the bench.

Imagine if DF started a youth teamers and he was like a fish out of water and we drop out of the autos, there'd be hell to pay.

Because he might just be good enough? But how will we know if we don't try it?

[MTFCMusings]

Steve's opinion shouldn't be on here when it's a clear dig at the manager and could provoke disharmony whilst we're pushing for promotion. His opinion is that Zayn Hakeem should be playing in the first team because he's 'big, strong and fast'. So is Matt Preston, lets stick him up front. It's also in direct contradiction to the opinion of the youth players, according to other posters on here. Are you telling me than young lads are openly dissenting to not getting in the first team of the third best team in the league, especially a striker when we have one of the leagues top scorers, and another big name striker on the bench?

So let's just get this right, you are telling us what Steve Hymas opinion is ???

If you read his post, that is exactly what he said yes.

[PEAR CIDER]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

Like you say, a reserve fixture isn't the same as a league fixture. Why would a kid get in ahead of a seasoned Pro, probably on 5-10x the wage. Jordan Graham would probably get a start on Saturday alongside Ajose, but he's injured. We may very well go with a youth striker on the bench.

Imagine if DF started a youth teamers and he was like a fish out of water and we drop out of the autos, there'd be hell to pay.

Because he might just be good enough? But how will we know if we don't try it?

And if he isnt and we drop points?

[Dan]

We drop points anyway so your point is invalid.

[PEAR CIDER]

We drop points anyway so your point is invalid.

Where does the buck stop if DF fields a youth teamer, we lose and he is then called out for not fielding his strongest team?

every team drops points, but not whilst purposely fielding unknowns at crucial stages of the season when we have season pros available.

Then tell me my point is invalid.

[Dan]

What's his strongest team though? No one knows that either, probably not even DF. You put a team out there HOPING it's your best/strongest & then end up getting beat.

There are so many examples over the years where kids have been thrown in & been brilliant. Look at Ryan Yates at Forest for the most recent success.

And of course I'll leave you with a famous quote from Alan Hansen which bit him on the arse: "You don't win anything with kids!".

[Amber Andy]

We drop points anyway so your point is invalid.

Where does the buck stop if DF fields a youth teamer, we lose and he is then called out for not fielding his strongest team?

every team drops points, but not whilst purposely fielding unknowns at crucial stages of the season when we have season pros available.

Then tell me my point is invalid.

The club has a striker crisis. Only Ajose available ( CJ is not a striker ). Surely putting a youngster on the bench in case Ajose is injured or ( lord forbid ) he gets sent off is common sense.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

And of course I'll leave you with a famous quote from Alan Hansen which bit him on the arse: "You don't win anything with kids!".

....... and those kids were Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Gary Neville, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and Phil Neville.

I think that was the exception which proves the rule!!

[gazza1988]

How will we know they're good enough for the first team if they don't get a chance? Reserve games are nowhere near the same as a first team fixture (most aren't even played on the same surface!). There's a young lad at Notts who has scored in 8 consecutive reserve games & is the best player on the pitch in most games but can't get in the 16 of a team 92nd in the league, it's madness.

Like you say, a reserve fixture isn't the same as a league fixture. Why would a kid get in ahead of a seasoned Pro, probably on 5-10x the wage. Jordan Graham would probably get a start on Saturday alongside Ajose, but he's injured. We may very well go with a youth striker on the bench.

Imagine if DF started a youth teamers and he was like a fish out of water and we drop out of the autos, there'd be hell to pay.

Because he might just be good enough? But how will we know if we don't try it?

I agree, there should be a striker on the bench Saturday, a young lad.

Steve alluded to using a youth instead of signing Ajose. Right now it would have been a massive gamble. We would have a YTS lad operating as a lone striker.

Many youth lads are thrown in out of necessity. Jason White anyone?

It's a big difference between playing infront of a handful of people to 5000+.

Is Jason Law still a striker, or has he been converted to left wing back?

[Dan]

And of course I'll leave you with a famous quote from Alan Hansen which bit him on the arse: "You don't win anything with kids!".

....... and those kids were Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Gary Neville, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and Phil Neville.

I think that was the exception which proves the rule!!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. At the time people were quizzing Fergie's sanity playing all these kids. A bit like people did with Dearden/Watkiss when they played Lawrence, Disley, Williamson etc

[cassellswasmagic]

Putting a youngster on the bench as back up for two games is one thing, but I dare say every one of them would struggle if put on the pitch. DF can’t risk it.

[gazza1988]

There's a pecking order and kids are always at the back. Our 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th choice strikers are unavailable for a minimum of 2 games, 1 is ~6 weeks off and 2 are out for the season.

I strongly suspect that whoever gets picked will get a golden chance to force their way into the managers thoughts. If Ajose picks up a yellow and we are winning I would expect DF to not risk a 2nd yellow or even a slight knock.

Having said that though I would expect Khan to start. maybe Smith to get a run out as well from the bench.

[PEAR CIDER]

Putting a youngster on the bench as back up for two games is one thing, but I dare say every one of them would struggle if put on the pitch. DF can’t risk it.

Exactly

[Kenwood]

Sweeney will come back at left CH and rightfully so as he’s been excellent. That would mean Mel will go to wing back and I would guess CJ will start up front instead of Tyler.

Other than that same squad

[steve-hymas]

I find it a little worrying that many wouldn’t back one of our youth/under 21 strikers being given a chance given our mini striker crisis .If they don’t get a chance in this situation it’s never going to happen.
Any striker out of contract will not be match fit and our lads are chomping at the bit .
Fergie took that decision on youth and the rest is history.They weren’t household names at the time.
Craig disley ,Liam Lawrence etc anyone ??

[garlic]

I find it a little worrying that many wouldn’t back one of our youth/under 21 strikers being given a chance given our mini striker crisis .If they don’t get a chance in this situation it’s never going to happen.
Any striker out of contract will not be match fit and our lads are chomping at the bit .
Fergie took that decision on youth and the rest is history.They weren’t household names at the time.
Craig disley ,Liam Lawrence etc anyone ??

I fully agree with your sentiments and have argued many times that the only chance of becoming anywhere near sustainable as a football club is to build the backbone of the team from the youth set-up. As for this concern that they`ll blow our promotion, well they might just secure it, with youngsters you never can predict.
However, the point raised by many on here Steve is whether you, as a club director, should be raising such issues on this forum. Many feel you should reserve your opinions for the boardroom, how would you respond to that as I am in two minds on this issue.

[I am Spartacus]

Oh how I bet Steve wishes he had phrased his post so much more differently.

Still, it has to be said, this has taken the good people’s minds off of Brexit.

[MTFCMusings]

I find it a little worrying that many wouldn’t back one of our youth/under 21 strikers being given a chance given our mini striker crisis .If they don’t get a chance in this situation it’s never going to happen.
Any striker out of contract will not be match fit and our lads are chomping at the bit .
Fergie took that decision on youth and the rest is history.They weren’t household names at the time.
Craig disley ,Liam Lawrence etc anyone ??

We have two that are fit though, and only played with one on Saturday.