{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

4-4-2

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

4-4-2

Postby Showaddywaddy » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:56 pm

What do people think of the back three? I like the football we are playing, it reminds me of some of our better years but we just aren't getting the results yet. I can't see Flitcroft changing his formation now but what system would you prefer us to play?

Overall the defence is solid but we can't help conceding late on but the one player that is not being used to the best of his ability is CJ Hamilton. Whilst being admittedly frustrating I believe he's got the ability to go on and be our best player but for that to happen he needs to be further up the pitch. When he runs at defenders he scares them to death but when on the back foot he gets caught out a position a few times.

I'd love to see us back to a flat back 4, with CJ in front of Benning.
More People Use Sankey Than For Any Other Reason
Showaddywaddy
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:31 pm
Location: A Town Called Malice

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Chander Lear » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:09 pm

I think 4 4 2 is always solid, but we won't create half as many chances imo

had we taken chances, we'd be saying it an excellent formation/tactic, unfortunately for Df, we are not scoring and holding out.

I personally thoroughly enjoy watching us run at defense is with pure pace. So in conclusion, don't change it, just find that winning mentality.
Chander Lear
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3417
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Re: 4-4-2

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:31 pm

Chander Lear wrote:I think 4 4 2 is always solid, but we won't create half as many chances imo

had we taken chances, we'd be saying it an excellent formation/tactic, unfortunately for Df, we are not scoring and holding out.

I personally thoroughly enjoy watching us run at defense is with pure pace. So in conclusion, don't change it, just find that winning mentality.



Totally dude, that's my preferred option.

We need to tweak the system to be resilient in the last 15 mins, but ruthless in front of goal. Considering how much of a fundamental change it is to our previous formations then i don't think we're a million miles off.

The next few months will prove if we're able to refine this to winning ways, or seem destined to the also-rans
If i look in pain it's because i'm thinking
User avatar
MutinyOnTheCounty
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: 4-4-2

Postby kcassellsfootygenius » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:37 pm

I don't think the late concessions are anything to do with formation its a mentality thing. Most people are moaning we have too many defenders when these things happen.

We need to just keep playing football because 90% of the time we don't look in any danger but when we sit back it's the reverse of that and I only give us a 10% chance of holding out.

I said the same last year he sends a team out with a clear plan the problem being when they have executed that plan they are often immediately asked to change the complete tempo and strategy. I'm not calling our players thick but clearly some are struggling with the concept.

I honestly believe if we kept playing the same from 1st minute to last we would see a vast improvement but DF does seem stubborn on this point.
kcassellsfootygenius
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:24 am

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:20 pm

I can see some advantages to the 352 system but don't think it is resilient enough when the pressure is on.

I would like to see a more fluid formation which gives the best of 4 4 2 and also of 3 5 2. To achieve this you would have to sacrifice either the third centre half or the defensive midfielder. Play two full backs and two wingers but get the full backs up as much as possible. When they are up the field the third centre half or defensive midfielder drops into a back 3. The full backs and wingers can then play as a pair and do the job down the wings. I feel this would create just as many chances especially when you remember that the two on the opposite wing can come inside to make extra players in attack.

You also have the advantage of a solid defence when the pressure is on.

Of course the best answer is to get forwards who can actually take the chances the current system creates and then we wouldn't be having this debate.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
Sandy Pate Best Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:37 pm

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Gruff » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:15 pm

I would have thought a sweeper system would be best, with Beckenbauer controlling the back four.....

I think that the team train for a formation (currently 3-5-2), which is why when substitutions take place (and the formation changes) we become more vulnerable. I would suggest that training needs to focus on the structure of the team once substitutions take place so that the team understand their roles and not just the individuals entering the play.

There still needs to be an outlet up front, and midfielders replacing forwards congests the centre of the park and individuals try to create space for themselves, hence creating space for others... responsibility goes missing. Defenders then are drawn forward to fill the gaps (Pearce), leaving space behind for their forwards.

It's not about the initial formation, it's about how the team adapt to changes in personnel/positions, and adapting to tactical changes of the opposition by minimising our vulnerabilities.

(I currently have a 3 month notice period, but I'm pretty sure JR would pay off my current employers to bring me in as Director of Football :lol)
User avatar
Gruff
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:42 am

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Bradders » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:42 pm

Showaddywaddy wrote:What do people think of the back three? I like the football we are playing, it reminds me of some of our better years but we just aren't getting the results yet. I can't see Flitcroft changing his formation now but what system would you prefer us to play?

Overall the defence is solid but we can't help conceding late on but the one player that is not being used to the best of his ability is CJ Hamilton. Whilst being admittedly frustrating I believe he's got the ability to go on and be our best player but for that to happen he needs to be further up the pitch. When he runs at defenders he scares them to death but when on the back foot he gets caught out a position a few times.

I'd love to see us back to a flat back 4, with CJ in front of Benning.

CJ really should avoid going too far back. He is our best player really, and it's annoying when he's not ready to attack the opposition defence. As you say, he scares them to death. Although he puts in a better cross from the left, if he has the confidence to shoot (and he should have, because he has a good shot) then it's more useful for him to be on the right. So swings and roundabouts on that one.

I'd rather have a proper full back behind him though, whatever the formation, then he can have free rein to attack without worrying about what happens if he loses the ball.
User avatar
Bradders
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:58 pm

Re: 4-4-2

Postby young vanish » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:19 pm

kcassellsfootygenius wrote:I don't think the late concessions are anything to do with formation its a mentality thing.


Spot on. Panic sets in because we've lost the lead late on before it might happen again ~ or it will happen again. Every time the feeling gets worse and compounds the problem. It affects manager, players, supporters equally. Even Martin's co-commentator on iFollow sets the scene with his constant references to ". . . I fear we'll lose this one goal lead if we don't this, that or the other . . ."

Be careful what you wish for.
Binarily speaking, 10's company, 11's a crowd
User avatar
young vanish
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:44 am
Location: Glappy

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Spiritater » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:48 am

Even last night at 2-0 one didn't feel entirely safe. When they scored you could sense the 'here we go again' aura descend upon the ground.
Wolves had plenty of possesion 2nd half but didn't create much.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 18299
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: 4-4-2

Postby bellwhiff » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:57 am

That’s the spirit
Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier...

Samuel Johnson
User avatar
bellwhiff
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 12589
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:14 pm

Re: 4-4-2

Postby Spiritater » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:07 am

Bore off :lol:
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 18299
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: 4-4-2

Postby pemill » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:03 pm

We have been exposed time and again down our flanks this season as our wing backs get caught up field attacking, there's only CJ who has the pace to get back and chase down the opposition on the counter attack. Our current style of play is good to watch when we are playing well but we have to convert the chances we create and kill the game off. If the second and third goal isn't forthcoming then switching to 4-4-2 during the game might be an option, mix it up a bit, catch the opposition by surprise, get CJ pushing on in front of Benning but keep pressing high.
pemill
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:32 am


Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Billy the fish, bob ledgers barber, Chants, daddycool, edwinscott, farndalestag65, pen, Sandy Pate Best Stag, smulls, stagtastic1 and 46 guests