Clough & Lewis press conference, Tue 27 Feb

[Martin Shaw]

now on iFollow

[broomo]

Good listen.

I particularly enjoyed the new Ozzie (Kiwi?) lad at the end. Some different ways of asking the same questions. Thought he was very good even though Nige pretty much straight batted them all back.

[mhs]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

[Martin Shaw]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

[adamstag]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

I said exactly the same during the game - should’ve took him down like they did to quinn on the halfway line, similar to the winner tranmere got the other season on the friday night.

Folk like to call it gamesmanship, which for me is a dolled up word for cheating

Everyone does it so it’s hardly like there’s one specific team benefitting from it.

[Rob]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

Isn't deliberately breaking the rules cheating?

cheat
verb
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

It's obviously part of the game and always has been, but it's still cheating. Nevertheless, I agree with Nigel that Luamba should have been taken down

[mhs]

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

What’s the reasoning that intentionally committing a foul is not cheating?

[Martin Shaw]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

Isn't deliberately breaking the rules cheating?

cheat
verb
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

It's obviously part of the game and always has been, but it's still cheating. Nevertheless, I agree with Nigel that Luamba should have been taken down

it's part of the game and you get booked or sent off for it. I've been watching the game for 54 years and I've never heard committing a foul called cheating.

To me cheating is trying to con the ref, so for example diving to get a penalty I would describe as cheating. Not committing a foul.

[Martin Shaw]

[Marky Mark]

I was advocating kicking Luamba over the Bishop Street stand after about 10 minutes, so I’m fine with it.

[arsene wengers coat]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

Oh I see Martin, so the players should have accidentally tripped him over by genuinely trying to play the ball? That's ok.

Because if they'd attempted to play the man, not the ball, that would be cheating. It's called a tactical foul where the perpetrator gains a competitive advantage through not playing to the rules of the game, same as shrit pulling or diving.

Just to be clear....

[Martin Shaw]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

Oh I see Martin, so the players should have accidentally tripped him over by genuinely trying to play the ball? That's ok.

Because if they'd attempted to play the man, not the ball, that would be cheating. It's called a tactical foul where the perpetrator gains a competitive advantage through not playing to the rules of the game, same as shrit pulling or diving.

Just to be clear....

nonsense. Fouling a player and getting booked is not the same as diving in the area to try to win a penalty. Diving is plainly cheating.

I defy anybody to find any edition of Match of the Day over the last 30 years, just for example, where any pundit calls fouling a player "cheating".

I can think of many occasions where diving in the area has been described as cheating on that programme.

[Gruff]

Surely, a foul is identified in the rules of football... so is recognised and not cheating.

[arsene wengers coat]

Nonsense to you. An unlawful competitive advantage through fouling is as much cheating as an unlawful competitive advantage being gained by any other means anywhere else on the pitch.

Why isn't stopping a goal illegally viewed the same as trying to score a goal illegally.

[bobbystagsfan]

I wonder if we miss out on promotion by a goal people have the same thoughts on 'cheating'

[arsene wengers coat]

I get it's not all black and white. We've never been any good at the dark arts like time wasting, going down easily under minimal contact to con the ref, or feigning injury.

[Costastag]

Its simple to me you see a player going to score a goal and you take him out ,then you get booked or sent off thats not cheating

[Ralphy]

Jeez we must be winning if this is stagsnet at the moment

[Elkesley Stag]

Good listen.

I particularly enjoyed the new Ozzie (Kiwi?) lad at the end. Some different ways of asking the same questions. Thought he was very good even though Nige pretty much straight batted them all back.

Who was the Ozzie / kiwi and who was he working for ?

[Rob]

I never like to hear a manager advocating cheating and I’m surprised that Nigel has done so.

He didn't.

He did say that if they couldn't tackle Luamba for the goal, then they should have fouled him. That is not cheating.

Isn't deliberately breaking the rules cheating?

cheat
verb
act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

It's obviously part of the game and always has been, but it's still cheating. Nevertheless, I agree with Nigel that Luamba should have been taken down

it's part of the game and you get booked or sent off for it. I've been watching the game for 54 years and I've never heard committing a foul called cheating.

To me cheating is trying to con the ref, so for example diving to get a penalty I would describe as cheating. Not committing a foul.

I'm sure you've been following the blue card debate, had Luamba been taken out under those rules that's what would have happened. If you look at why the blue card has been suggested it is to eliminate cheating. I'll add I am opposed to the blue card but do understand why they want to do something about it. For me the difference between a cynical foul like this and diving is very minimal - though let's be honest if we gain from either most won't bat an eyelid

[Rob]

Surely, a foul is identified in the rules of football... so is recognised and not cheating.

Diving is too, so by your definition diving isn't cheating either. It's a very subjective argument and I don't think either side is wrong, it basically depends on how you define what constitutes cheating

[part time pete]

Could it be said that it is only cheating if the ref doesn’t spot the foul or diving and therefore doesn't give a free kick.

[MTFCMusings]

What a ridiculous debate this is

I would wager every player ‘cheats’ at least once a game by some peoples definition.

[robbingdog]

How can committing a foul be cheating?

Martin has said exactly how it is. Why do people insist
On trying to be controversial. Fouling someone is not
Cheating. If most fouls are given as cheating then god help us

[yorkstag]

Is this thread really happening?

If taking him out is cheating then I would advocate cheating. There that’s clear