Stags v Doncaster - your ratings

[eggy]

In here please

https://forms.gle/JyWNUsrNhELxDPWq7

[PostmanPat]

Swan - 0.1

[Rob]

Swan - 0.1

Bore off.

[Dan]

Swan - 0.1

Bore off.

I think he's one of those who sits behind the dugouts mate...

[Rob]

Swan - 0.1

Bore off.

I think he's one of those who sits behind the dugouts mate...

You should add their pictures to your gallery Dan, the guy with less hair and glasses made a right tit of himself. Imagine being a "fan" like that, abusing your manager who has us 2nd in the league having lost one in 23 games! It's note even as if we were losing the game fgs!

[PostmanPat]

Swan - 0.1

Bore off.

I think he's one of those who sits behind the dugouts mate...

Incorrect. Upper tier.

[PostmanPat]

Swan - 0.1

Bore off.

Cabbage

[pemill]

Swan - 0.1

If Swan got the amount of time others get in the team he'd be flying, we know he's a quality player but getting 10 mins here and there with no service is hardly enough for him to get established.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Swan - 0.1

If Swan got the amount of time others get in the team he'd be flying, we know he's a quality player but getting 10 mins here and there with no service is hardly enough for him to get established.

Sorry but I simply can’t agree with that. Yes he scored some important goals last season but I never saw him as outstanding or ‘quality’ but just a young man with potential. To me he hasn’t improved and has actually gone backwards at a great rate of knots. He is making basic mistakes particularly around getting constantly caught offside and clumsily and blatantly fouling opponents when the team are in promising positions. The foul on the keeper last night was typical of his contributions this season coming at a time we were desperate to keep the game flowing and just deflated any pressure we were building. It also isn’t correct that he is getting no service. If he didn’t keep running offside maybe his team mates would pass to him a bit more. They aren’t daft and know when defenders are moving up.

Swan may still come good but before he does, he has to get the basics right and concentrate on his positioning and fouling. Until he does that his contribution to the team won’t improve.

[The Hoffmeister]

Swan - 0.1

If Swan got the amount of time others get in the team he'd be flying, we know he's a quality player but getting 10 mins here and there with no service is hardly enough for him to get established.

Sorry but I simply can’t agree with that. Yes he scored some important goals last season but I never saw him as outstanding or ‘quality’ but just a young man with potential. To me he hasn’t improved and has actually gone backwards at a great rate of knots. He is making basic mistakes particularly around getting constantly caught offside and clumsily and blatantly fouling opponents when the team are in promising positions. The foul on the keeper last night was typical of his contributions this season coming at a time we were desperate to keep the game flowing and just deflated any pressure we were building. It also isn’t correct that he is getting no service. If he didn’t keep running offside maybe his team mates would pass to him a bit more. They aren’t daft and know when defenders are moving up.

Swan may still come good but before he does, he has to get the basics right and concentrate on his positioning and fouling. Until he does that his contribution to the team won’t improve.

Very well put Sandy, the one that got me was even later when we had them penned in near the touchline and he just barged into the back of the guy with the ball.
My Donny supporting mates said "Owulu at CH is abysmal, play on him and you'll score for fun", we made him look like Beckenbaur, one up front that his partner took care of then Oates wide right with lightweight Swan against his partner late on, our managers in game tactics last night weren't good either.

[gazza1988]

Swan - 0.1

If Swan got the amount of time others get in the team he'd be flying, we know he's a quality player but getting 10 mins here and there with no service is hardly enough for him to get established.

Sorry but I simply can’t agree with that. Yes he scored some important goals last season but I never saw him as outstanding or ‘quality’ but just a young man with potential. To me he hasn’t improved and has actually gone backwards at a great rate of knots. He is making basic mistakes particularly around getting constantly caught offside and clumsily and blatantly fouling opponents when the team are in promising positions. The foul on the keeper last night was typical of his contributions this season coming at a time we were desperate to keep the game flowing and just deflated any pressure we were building. It also isn’t correct that he is getting no service. If he didn’t keep running offside maybe his team mates would pass to him a bit more. They aren’t daft and know when defenders are moving up.

Swan may still come good but before he does, he has to get the basics right and concentrate on his positioning and fouling. Until he does that his contribution to the team won’t improve.

How can he get the basics right, if he isn't getting the game time to do so?

If you want to be technical he scored in the 79th min vs Tranmere, since then he's come on in the 88th min, 85th minute and last night the 79th minute. BAsed on a 90 minute game he last scored 28 minutes of football ago.

That Tranmere game he came of after 69 mins. Came on in injury time vs newport and the game before that he came on after 63 minutes and assisted the winning goal on 71 minutes.

so in his last 70 minutes of football he's scored 1 and assisted 1. The issue is that 70 minutes of football is spread over 6 games since the end of October (2 months basically)

So there is an argument that more game time would be beneficial.

Oates was unavailable for the Walsall game that I went back to on 28th October. Swan had flu for a game so both have featured in 8 games since the end of Oct.

Since then though Oates has scored 1 and assisted 1 in 489 minutes of football. So there's a clear argument that we should try Swan instead of Oates first.

Oates scored the first goal vs Tranmere Swan the second so technically Swan has scored sooner than Oates has

[The Hoffmeister]

Swan - 0.1

If Swan got the amount of time others get in the team he'd be flying, we know he's a quality player but getting 10 mins here and there with no service is hardly enough for him to get established.

Sorry but I simply can’t agree with that. Yes he scored some important goals last season but I never saw him as outstanding or ‘quality’ but just a young man with potential. To me he hasn’t improved and has actually gone backwards at a great rate of knots. He is making basic mistakes particularly around getting constantly caught offside and clumsily and blatantly fouling opponents when the team are in promising positions. The foul on the keeper last night was typical of his contributions this season coming at a time we were desperate to keep the game flowing and just deflated any pressure we were building. It also isn’t correct that he is getting no service. If he didn’t keep running offside maybe his team mates would pass to him a bit more. They aren’t daft and know when defenders are moving up.

Swan may still come good but before he does, he has to get the basics right and concentrate on his positioning and fouling. Until he does that his contribution to the team won’t improve.

How can he get the basics right, if he isn't getting the game time to do so?

If you want to be technical he scored in the 79th min vs Tranmere, since then he's come on in the 88th min, 85th minute and last night the 79th minute. BAsed on a 90 minute game he last scored 28 minutes of football ago.

That Tranmere game he came of after 69 mins. Came on in injury time vs newport and the game before that he came on after 63 minutes and assisted the winning goal on 71 minutes.

so in his last 70 minutes of football he's scored 1 and assisted 1. The issue is that 70 minutes of football is spread over 6 games since the end of October (2 months basically)

So there is an argument that more game time would be beneficial.

Oates was unavailable for the Walsall game that I went back to on 28th October. Swan had flu for a game so both have featured in 8 games since the end of Oct.

Since then though Oates has scored 1 and assisted 1 in 489 minutes of football. So there's a clear argument that we should try Swan instead of Oates first.

Oates scored the first goal vs Tranmere Swan the second so technically Swan has scored sooner than Oates has

By god, more over analytical waffle.
We can see with our own eyes when he does play or get minutes he doesn't make a case to cement a place, he's been God damn awful and that's being polite

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Gazza

It would be very interesting to see how many fouls he’s committed and how many times he’s been offside during those minutes. Also how many minutes he’s played per booking. He offers very little defensively and simply isn’t effective.

I’m not expecting a world beater and take the point about more minutes but even Flint has contributed more when he was thrown up front. Abdullah has looked far more effective in the small amount of game time he’s been given and for me is a better prospect for the future.

Nigel Clough isn’t stupid and probably knows his players better than anyone. If Swan was worth more minutes, he’d be getting them. He didn’t bring him to the club as a backup and the amount he is using him reflects the decline in his value to the club and the contribution he makes to the team whilst on the pitch.

[gazza1988]

Not expecting a world beater? but expecting him to score in his 5 minute cameos?

My point was he's mostly getting cameos when we are 2 goals ahead, when we aren't quite . His last 8 appearances. when he got 20+ minutes he either scored or assisted.

I never said Clough was stupid. Does beg the question though that if he knows his players better than anyone why did he get JR to pay a fee for him and give him a 3 year deal with the option of a further year?

Had a look into the offsides and fouls and he's actually 2nd in the team for offside with 8. Akins leads that stat with 8. Then DKD with 5. Flint with. Oates and Gale have 3. Clarke and Cargill have 2 a piece and finally Johnson, MacDonald, O'Toole and Lewis are on 1.

fouls committed is also 8 but not the mostin the side, That is Akins with 25 which is also the amount of times he's been fouled.

Data taken from https://fbref.com/en/squads/13cb8449/Ma ... stats_misc There is other stats in that list but that links to the ones you wanted.

had a little poke around. https://fbref.com/en/players/623d58b5/m ... Match-Logs that shows his per game stats.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Not expecting a world beater? but expecting him to score in his 5 minute cameos?

My point was he's mostly getting cameos when we are 2 goals ahead, when we aren't quite . His last 8 appearances. when he got 20+ minutes he either scored or assisted.

I never said Clough was stupid. Does beg the question though that if he knows his players better than anyone why did he get JR to pay a fee for him and give him a 3 year deal with the option of a further year?

Had a look into the offsides and fouls and he's actually 2nd in the team for offside with 8. Akins leads that stat with 8. Then DKD with 5. Flint with. Oates and Gale have 3. Clarke and Cargill have 2 a piece and finally Johnson, MacDonald, O'Toole and Lewis are on 1.

fouls committed is also 8 but not the mostin the side, That is Akins with 25 which is also the amount of times he's been fouled.

Data taken from https://fbref.com/en/squads/13cb8449/Ma ... stats_misc There is other stats in that list but that links to the ones you wanted.

had a little poke around. https://fbref.com/en/players/623d58b5/m ... Match-Logs that shows his per game stats.

Thank you for that Gazza. I don’t think they do your standpoint much good though if you compare the number of minutes played as opposed to the other players you mention. If you look at games from the start of the season , he was getting plenty of minutes but having very little of influence on games in the number of shots etc. His game time diminishes as the season goes on (probably because he isn’t producing the goods) which is what you would expect a manager to do if a player isn’t performing to expected levels. To be on the same number of offsides as a player who has been an almost ever present reflects that something isn’t going well in my opinion. The fact he is also on a third of the number of fouls as Akins also doesn’t reflect well compared with the number of minutes played. That fact is also compounded when you consider that most think Akins is not given a fair rub by some refs so his figures are artificially inflated.

In respect of Clough wanting to pay a fee and also giving a three year contract, do you honestly think he would have done that based on this year’s performances alone? Will was bought with an eye to the future following a successful loan spell at our club but unfortunately he hasn’t continued to develop as well as may have been initially expected. That doesn’t mean he won’t kick on again but it also doesn’t mean he should gain a place in an ambitious side whilst we wait for him to improve. I do believe there could still be a good player in there but it’s simply not working for him at the moment and a second move may be in the player’s best interest as he’s not going to get the minutes on the pitch here.

[bear 73]

Swan and Oates after chomping at the bit to play did very little to change the direction of the game, throwing two strikers on you would expect a impact.
Swan he is full of promise and had a spell were he did not think football was his future,
He is now at a crossroads and in the right place, he steps up or steps out, in Clough he has the right mentor.
Oates has pace and upsets defenders but is still a rough diamond, playing him in the middle is risky with physical defenders he can easily get injured.
With more room and time on the wings he can use his pace, and still have a impact chasing a through ball, with hopefully less physical contact.
But both strikers need to make their presence felt

[eggy]

Pym 7.38

Johnson 7.91
Flint 7.08
Cargill 7.01
Bowery 6.67

Brunt 6.22
Reed 5.78
Quinn 6.85
Maris 6.66

Keillor-Dunn 6.18
Akins 5.87

-

Oates 5.87
Clarke 6.67
McLaughlin 6.59
Swan 5.20
Lewis 6.12