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Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby oldweststander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:30 am

Such a morbid lot on here at times.

The Mansfield fans don't get on any players backs who give 100%, all footballers make mistakes, lower leagues more than most but it's a shame when supporters have digs at their own teams supporters.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby oldweststander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:30 am

Such a morbid lot on here at times.

The Mansfield fans don't get on any players backs who give 100%, all footballers make mistakes, lower leagues more than most but it's a shame when supporters have digs at their own teams supporters.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:54 pm

oldweststander wrote:Such a morbid lot on here at times.

The Mansfield fans don't get on any players backs who give 100%, all footballers make mistakes, lower leagues more than most but it's a shame when supporters have digs at their own teams supporters.


Aren't you having a dig at your own teams supporters then?

As for not getting on the backs of players giving 100% I don't think you could accuse Ollie Palmer of not trying or Conrad Logan for that matter. Most football supporters are a fickle lot with short memories but we do seem to have a talent for really alienating some of our ex players although I admit not without just cause in some cases.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby STAGS FOR LIFE » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:20 pm

;) Chesterfield Borough Council with the purse strings :lol:

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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:50 pm

A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby ParisStag » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:25 pm

Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby stagmanrob » Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:32 pm

I live in the Chesterfield Borough Council area and if this loan goes ahead, I can forsee more folk being unhappy about it than folk who think it justifiable. Many folk couldn't give a toss about Chesterfield FC, and the ones that do aren't attending the matches there under the current regime. It's very similar to our situation when we went down, the town doesn't really care.

There's an awful lot of things that council funding should be prioritised to be spent on rather than a clearly failing Non-League football club, especially during these recent events.

I know they can try and dress it up as a loan from the council, but any lender needs to assess the likelihood of that loan being paid back.... and unless they are completely off their heads, it looks far more likely that it's going to be a struggle to pay back the said loan even if COVID-19 was totally out of the equation.

This Community Trust clearly do not have a pot to pee in if they are going cap in hand to two seperate local authorities for funding, so how would they plan on paying the loan repayments when the club in it's current state is losing stacks of money monthly.... yet they would still want to remain competitive in the league as well?

Laughably for all of us, it's clear that their best bet is to stick with Dave Allen and Ashley Carson :lol:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby ParisStag » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:52 am

Fair enough. I hope apathy in the town means they lose the majority of their fanbase.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:05 am

ParisStag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D

Surely that can't be a priority in times like these.

Folks using food banks, empty units on the high streets due to retailers not being able to afford the rates, vital services likely to be cut. The money is needed elsewhere.

And as Stagmanrob points out, how on earth will the loan be paid back, especially when gate money will be reduced due to necessary safety measures.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:30 am

Amber Andy wrote:
ParisStag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D

Surely that can't be a priority in times like these.

Folks using food banks, empty units on the high streets due to retailers not being able to afford the rates, vital services likely to be cut. The money is needed elsewhere.

And as Stagmanrob points out, how on earth will the loan be paid back, especially when gate money will be reduced due to necessary safety measures.


We have, in Mansfield, a parallel with the actions of our Mansfield DC. Mansfield DC own, in varying locations, various commercial properties such as hotels etc which were bought as a commercial investment with a fixed / guaranteed rate of return for the benefit of the people of Mansfield. When this became public there was uproar from various quarters regarding public money being invested out of the district when the district is in need of investment. Despite the investments being for long term benefit.

When the loan agreement is made public, which it will have to be for transparency purposes (The old chestnut of the loan being ‘commercially sensitive information’ will not sit well with the public in this case), the residents of ‘Church Bending Land’ will not be happy especially if they default on repayments or repayments cause the club financial hardship.
The loans may bring Chesterfield Borough Council more problems long term than it solves short term.

The alternative is, of course, a tax on sheep dip. Farmers get clean sheep, Spirietes get disease free women and the club gets a financial injection. A win win situation.
Last edited by I am Spartacus on Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby stagmanrob » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:41 am

Apparently the loan request is to cover the income shortfall from no gate receipts and season ticket sales.

Have I been living on another planet and not heard a concrete announcement on the resumption of the next season and when fans will be allowed back in or something?

Already you can pick holes in their business plan without even having seen it :lol:
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby HitchcocksShins » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am

stagmanrob wrote:Apparently the loan request is to cover the income shortfall from no gate receipts and season ticket sales


Giving a loan to a company that ran a fraud raffle and announces season ticket holders in their attadance regardless of if they're there or not, what could possibly go wrong haha
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:55 am

If this loan is agreed, they'll need to pay a c4.5% annual interest rate.

I take it that the loan would then be transferred against the.club rather than the trust, if they successfully acquired the club.

What happens in the event of multiple defaults? Will the council liquidate the club to get its money back? This would very be ironic.

I can't help but think this might be fun if it happened.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:01 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
ParisStag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D

Surely that can't be a priority in times like these.

Folks using food banks, empty units on the high streets due to retailers not being able to afford the rates, vital services likely to be cut. The money is needed elsewhere.

And as Stagmanrob points out, how on earth will the loan be paid back, especially when gate money will be reduced due to necessary safety measures.


We have, in Mansfield, a parallel with the actions of our Mansfield DC. Mansfield DC own, in varying locations, various commercial properties such as hotels etc which were bought as a commercial investment with a fixed / guaranteed rate of return for the benefit of the people of Mansfield. When this became public there was uproar from various quarters regarding public money being invested out of the district when the district is in need of investment. Despite the investments being for long term benefit.

When the loan agreement is made public, which it will have to be for transparency purposes (The old chestnut of the loan being ‘commercially sensitive information’ will not sit well with the public in this case), the residents of ‘Church Bending Land’ will not be happy especially if they default on repayments or repayments cause the club financial hardship.
The loans may bring Chesterfield Borough Council more problems long term than it solves short term.

The alternative is, of course, a tax on sheep dip. Farmers get clean sheep, Spirietes get disease free women and the club gets a financial injection. A win win situation.

Two very different scenaris there when comparing the MDC investments to this loan.

All local authorities invest cash balances in order to generate income. Traditionally this was done with fixed term bank deposits but the financial crash of 2008 saw the investment rates plummet and income dropped to a tenth of what it was before the crash.
MDC invested in existing properties with a guaranteed rental return from major established businesses to generate income which could be spent on delivering local services. If suitable properties were available within the district they would have been purchased. People said MDC should have spent the money locally, but if you don't get the desired return on the investment the money is lost and you can only spend it once. A good annual return pays for services year after year.

If CBC choose to lend money to the Cheats it is a massive gamble with public money as although it is an established business, it has been losing money every year for quite some time. If they aren't making profit then they won't be able to service the loan debt and the council are short of cash in their balanced budget. Yes they could secure the loan against the ground, but imagine the local uproar if the council evicted the football club !!
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby I am Spartacus » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:17 am

Dave Wayne wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
ParisStag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D

Surely that can't be a priority in times like these.

Folks using food banks, empty units on the high streets due to retailers not being able to afford the rates, vital services likely to be cut. The money is needed elsewhere.

And as Stagmanrob points out, how on earth will the loan be paid back, especially when gate money will be reduced due to necessary safety measures.


We have, in Mansfield, a parallel with the actions of our Mansfield DC. Mansfield DC own, in varying locations, various commercial properties such as hotels etc which were bought as a commercial investment with a fixed / guaranteed rate of return for the benefit of the people of Mansfield. When this became public there was uproar from various quarters regarding public money being invested out of the district when the district is in need of investment. Despite the investments being for long term benefit.

When the loan agreement is made public, which it will have to be for transparency purposes (The old chestnut of the loan being ‘commercially sensitive information’ will not sit well with the public in this case), the residents of ‘Church Bending Land’ will not be happy especially if they default on repayments or repayments cause the club financial hardship.
The loans may bring Chesterfield Borough Council more problems long term than it solves short term.

The alternative is, of course, a tax on sheep dip. Farmers get clean sheep, Spirietes get disease free women and the club gets a financial injection. A win win situation.

Two very different scenaris there when comparing the MDC investments to this loan.

All local authorities invest cash balances in order to generate income. Traditionally this was done with fixed term bank deposits but the financial crash of 2008 saw the investment rates plummet and income dropped to a tenth of what it was before the crash.
MDC invested in existing properties with a guaranteed rental return from major established businesses to generate income which could be spent on delivering local services. If suitable properties were available within the district they would have been purchased. People said MDC should have spent the money locally, but if you don't get the desired return on the investment the money is lost and you can only spend it once. A good annual return pays for services year after year.

If CBC choose to lend money to the Cheats it is a massive gamble with public money as although it is an established business, it has been losing money every year for quite some time. If they aren't making profit then they won't be able to service the loan debt and the council are short of cash in their balanced budget. Yes they could secure the loan against the ground, but imagine the local uproar if the council evicted the football club !!


Two different scenarios I agree. Though the parallel is that the lending of money, (for it cannot be called an investment as no one wanting a rate of return invests in a football club). MDC have investments that initially garnered a lot of negative publicity, though MDC could ride out the initial negative publicity as long term all could see how it benefits the authority whereas loaning the Church Benders money is not a long term definite financial benefit to the authority. It is a short term fix, where even if they do well and Councillors get their face in the paper for re-election, will not benefit the town long term, unless someone buys the club and repays the loan. But no-one wants to buy the club now.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:09 am

There is no parallel.
Irrespective of public perception, MDC made investments with a guaranteed annual return which could then be used to deliver local services.
CBC are considering loaning money to an organisation planning to purchase a business that has been haemorrhaging cash for years. There is a high risk of default.
CIPFA Codes of Practice specify the priorities of investments to be security, liquidity, and yield, in that order. They would find it difficult to justify this loan to any scrutiny panel or auditor.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby oldweststander » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:57 am

Take it from Dave Wayne, he is a rarity on here in financial terms, he knows what he's writing about.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby yorkshire stag » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:48 am

oh how absolutely sad would it be if it all went wrong ?

Mwahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:25 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:There is no parallel.
Irrespective of public perception, MDC made investments with a guaranteed annual return which could then be used to deliver local services.
CBC are considering loaning money to an organisation planning to purchase a business that has been haemorrhaging cash for years. There is a high risk of default.
CIPFA Codes of Practice specify the priorities of investments to be security, liquidity, and yield, in that order. They would find it difficult to justify this loan to any scrutiny panel or auditor.


Yeah, and the irony would be if the council did support such a loan to endure the running of the club, only to liquidate it after it defaulted.

Football isn't a business. No legitimate business runs on such losses. The repayment can't be forecast. I'd be surprised if they lend, but I sort of hope they do.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amberheart » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:02 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:oh how absolutely sad would it be if it all went wrong ?

Mwahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

It would be a travesty :D
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby bex » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:44 pm

Oh No What a shame...Ne'er mind eh
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:31 am

Dave Wayne wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
ParisStag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:A council should not be loaning money to an organisation trying to purchase a football club.
The money should be used to rebuild the local economy following the pandemic.


To be fair, it is a part of the local economy and a community hub, so it is exactly the kind of thing the council should be looking at. That said, I hope they don't succeed. :D

Surely that can't be a priority in times like these.

Folks using food banks, empty units on the high streets due to retailers not being able to afford the rates, vital services likely to be cut. The money is needed elsewhere.

And as Stagmanrob points out, how on earth will the loan be paid back, especially when gate money will be reduced due to necessary safety measures.


We have, in Mansfield, a parallel with the actions of our Mansfield DC. Mansfield DC own, in varying locations, various commercial properties such as hotels etc which were bought as a commercial investment with a fixed / guaranteed rate of return for the benefit of the people of Mansfield. When this became public there was uproar from various quarters regarding public money being invested out of the district when the district is in need of investment. Despite the investments being for long term benefit.

When the loan agreement is made public, which it will have to be for transparency purposes (The old chestnut of the loan being ‘commercially sensitive information’ will not sit well with the public in this case), the residents of ‘Church Bending Land’ will not be happy especially if they default on repayments or repayments cause the club financial hardship.
The loans may bring Chesterfield Borough Council more problems long term than it solves short term.

The alternative is, of course, a tax on sheep dip. Farmers get clean sheep, Spirietes get disease free women and the club gets a financial injection. A win win situation.

Two very different scenaris there when comparing the MDC investments to this loan.

All local authorities invest cash balances in order to generate income. Traditionally this was done with fixed term bank deposits but the financial crash of 2008 saw the investment rates plummet and income dropped to a tenth of what it was before the crash.
MDC invested in existing properties with a guaranteed rental return from major established businesses to generate income which could be spent on delivering local services. If suitable properties were available within the district they would have been purchased. People said MDC should have spent the money locally, but if you don't get the desired return on the investment the money is lost and you can only spend it once. A good annual return pays for services year after year.

If CBC choose to lend money to the Cheats it is a massive gamble with public money as although it is an established business, it has been losing money every year for quite some time. If they aren't making profit then they won't be able to service the loan debt and the council are short of cash in their balanced budget. Yes they could secure the loan against the ground, but imagine the local uproar if the council evicted the football club !!
Due to covid 19 the income from such properties are likely to be lower. A report in the National Press indicates it could lead to cuts in services.
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Re: Let's Have A Thread About non-league Chesterfield

Postby I am Spartacus » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:31 am

oldweststander wrote:Take it from Dave Wayne, he is a rarity on here in financial terms, he knows what he's writing about.


Glad to be educated, so unusual to happen on this site :lol: :lol:

Seriously, to have facts presented that shoot massive holes in the ‘spin’ regarding the rescue package of the Church Benders is welcome.
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