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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:28 pm

Logan could play it short or long. His problem was I’ve seen quickly bloody snails than him. He held on to the ball too long.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:38 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:Logan could play it short or long. His problem was I’ve seen quickly bloody snails than him. He held on to the ball too long.


Yes, I'm not saying he was incapable. Which I get it looks like I am. I'm talking about while under pressure. Bobby would grab the ball and look for the wingbacks and play it to their feet. Logan would get the ball and lamp it one. How many times did we see him amd Pearce arguing? Logan screaming for them to just clear in and Pearce trying to shepherd the ball for him to collect. Both valid options. Get the ball away from the area or have possession of the ball. It's the eactions to those situations where they have to make a choice. Logan's is get rid and Olejnik was get hold of it. Flitcroft preferred us to keep hold of it and Evans preferred to get rid of it. I'm not slating either manager. Just used Evans and Flitcroft beacsue both managers had a fit Olejnik, ie before his injury that he appears to have not recovered from, available for selection.

It's just the old square pegs and round holes. Flitcroft is round holes and Evans is square holes. Logan is a sqayrw peg and olejnik is a round peg. Both have their uses but are not entirely compatible.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Big yella » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:04 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Losing olejnik was a blow, but we had capable backup in logan. Granted logan wasn't used to the "sweeper keeper" role playing it out short from the back but as a shot stopper he was more than capable.

Losing white was a bigger blow, we had no true natuaral backup, except maybe for CJ who played there for the next 4 or 5 games and the form was still acceptable.

We lost Rose. That left a gap. We've got logan who prefers to play like Evans, get the ball forwards early, and rose helped keep the ball up there. After Rose's injury we went 2 months with only Ajose and Walker available (walker did get himself sent off but I think we did OK, from memory) meaning Logan's long balls and the defences pressured clearances meant Walker and Ajose had little chance of winning headers so the ball started coming back at us. The wing backs would be back defending and now need to get up and support the attack, had they won the ball.


Wow you just can’t help yourself can you?! If Logan was hoofing the ball up field then it was because Flitcroft told him to not Evans. If you are claiming he carried on doing it after Flitcroft told him not to then once again that’s weak management from Flitcroft as he carried on playing him. You can’t have it both ways. This obsession of having a go at Evans on every opportunity is embarrassing mate seriously :lol:

Not so sure that's right Dan.

Flitcroft started the season with Logan, who failed to distribute the ball the way he was asked, so he was dropped.

Olejnik came in and did as asked until he got injured, so he was replaced by Logan. When Logan wouldn't or couldn't distribute it the way asked, who could he be dropped for?
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby adamstag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:08 pm

Big yella wrote:
Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Losing olejnik was a blow, but we had capable backup in logan. Granted logan wasn't used to the "sweeper keeper" role playing it out short from the back but as a shot stopper he was more than capable.

Losing white was a bigger blow, we had no true natuaral backup, except maybe for CJ who played there for the next 4 or 5 games and the form was still acceptable.

We lost Rose. That left a gap. We've got logan who prefers to play like Evans, get the ball forwards early, and rose helped keep the ball up there. After Rose's injury we went 2 months with only Ajose and Walker available (walker did get himself sent off but I think we did OK, from memory) meaning Logan's long balls and the defences pressured clearances meant Walker and Ajose had little chance of winning headers so the ball started coming back at us. The wing backs would be back defending and now need to get up and support the attack, had they won the ball.


Wow you just can’t help yourself can you?! If Logan was hoofing the ball up field then it was because Flitcroft told him to not Evans. If you are claiming he carried on doing it after Flitcroft told him not to then once again that’s weak management from Flitcroft as he carried on playing him. You can’t have it both ways. This obsession of having a go at Evans on every opportunity is embarrassing mate seriously :lol:

Not so sure that's right Dan.

Flitcroft started the season with Logan, who failed to distribute the ball the way he was asked, so he was dropped.

Olejnik came in and did as asked until he got injured, so he was replaced by Logan. When Logan wouldn't or couldn't distribute it the way asked, who could he be dropped for?


If only flitcroft and his team not choked in such epic fashion huh!

If only they not faltered so badly after being found out by Swindon and had no plan B maybe we’d have gone up.

All ifs and buts huh.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dan » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:47 am

gazza1988 wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Logan could play it short or long. His problem was I’ve seen quickly bloody snails than him. He held on to the ball too long.


Yes, I'm not saying he was incapable. Which I get it looks like I am. I'm talking about while under pressure. Bobby would grab the ball and look for the wingbacks and play it to their feet. Logan would get the ball and lamp it one. How many times did we see him amd Pearce arguing? Logan screaming for them to just clear in and Pearce trying to shepherd the ball for him to collect. Both valid options. Get the ball away from the area or have possession of the ball. It's the eactions to those situations where they have to make a choice. Logan's is get rid and Olejnik was get hold of it. Flitcroft preferred us to keep hold of it and Evans preferred to get rid of it. I'm not slating either manager. Just used Evans and Flitcroft beacsue both managers had a fit Olejnik, ie before his injury that he appears to have not recovered from, available for selection.

It's just the old square pegs and round holes. Flitcroft is round holes and Evans is square holes. Logan is a sqayrw peg and olejnik is a round peg. Both have their uses but are not entirely compatible.


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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:38 am

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Logan could play it short or long. His problem was I’ve seen quickly bloody snails than him. He held on to the ball too long.


Yes, I'm not saying he was incapable. Which I get it looks like I am. I'm talking about while under pressure. Bobby would grab the ball and look for the wingbacks and play it to their feet. Logan would get the ball and lamp it one. How many times did we see him amd Pearce arguing? Logan screaming for them to just clear in and Pearce trying to shepherd the ball for him to collect. Both valid options. Get the ball away from the area or have possession of the ball. It's the eactions to those situations where they have to make a choice. Logan's is get rid and Olejnik was get hold of it. Flitcroft preferred us to keep hold of it and Evans preferred to get rid of it. I'm not slating either manager. Just used Evans and Flitcroft beacsue both managers had a fit Olejnik, ie before his injury that he appears to have not recovered from, available for selection.

It's just the old square pegs and round holes. Flitcroft is round holes and Evans is square holes. Logan is a sqayrw peg and olejnik is a round peg. Both have their uses but are not entirely compatible.


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It's not my fault you didn't grasp what I was talking about. You misunderstood, I clarified and you decided I must be back tracking? Still no response to what I puti see. You're just trying to make out I worship Flitcroft and I'm not appreciative of what Evans did. End of the day Evans is a good manager, for us Flitcroft was better, they both have very different styles of play that requires a different kind of player.

Simple really.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dan » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:15 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Logan could play it short or long. His problem was I’ve seen quickly bloody snails than him. He held on to the ball too long.


Yes, I'm not saying he was incapable. Which I get it looks like I am. I'm talking about while under pressure. Bobby would grab the ball and look for the wingbacks and play it to their feet. Logan would get the ball and lamp it one. How many times did we see him amd Pearce arguing? Logan screaming for them to just clear in and Pearce trying to shepherd the ball for him to collect. Both valid options. Get the ball away from the area or have possession of the ball. It's the eactions to those situations where they have to make a choice. Logan's is get rid and Olejnik was get hold of it. Flitcroft preferred us to keep hold of it and Evans preferred to get rid of it. I'm not slating either manager. Just used Evans and Flitcroft beacsue both managers had a fit Olejnik, ie before his injury that he appears to have not recovered from, available for selection.

It's just the old square pegs and round holes. Flitcroft is round holes and Evans is square holes. Logan is a sqayrw peg and olejnik is a round peg. Both have their uses but are not entirely compatible.


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It's not my fault you didn't grasp what I was talking about. You misunderstood, I clarified and you decided I must be back tracking? Still no response to what I puti see. You're just trying to make out I worship Flitcroft and I'm not appreciative of what Evans did. End of the day Evans is a good manager, for us Flitcroft was better, they both have very different styles of play that requires a different kind of player.

Simple really.


I didn’t grasp what you said because you didn’t say it. I’m not mystic meg. And there you go again saying Flitcroft was better. He wasn’t and the stats back it up. :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 12:32 am

1 stat backs you up and that's win%. That win% got him 12th and 5th place with 12 games to go. Flitcroft got us 9th and 4th. That's the stat that matters chief. Where you finish.

With him leaving in February it's like saying GC beat Orient and Newport and drew with Exeter because that's what the score was at the 75th minute. Anything could have happened ranging from automatics and falling outside the play offs. You can't act like it wasn't possible because it clearly was possible.

Your only stat of 45% doesn't even tell the whole story. If we sack GC and appoint another manager who doesn't draw a game and wins 46% of them? Would you clamour for him to stay? With his superior win%? Bringing our total for the season to 60-61 points? Then the following season carries on winning or losing but gets 50% win % for a 69 points mid table finish. Would you worship them for their awesome win%?

I suspect I won't get an answer because your too busy staring into your crystal ball using your mystic Meg powers to guess at what I meant in a post when I admitted it wasn't clear on what I meant, you decided I must be backtracking because your crystal ball already told you what I must have meant.

Any chance for the lottery numbers mate, could do with a bit of cash? ;)
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 1:24 pm

gazza1988 wrote:1 stat backs you up and that's win%. That win% got him 12th and 5th place with 12 games to go. Flitcroft got us 9th and 4th. That's the stat that matters chief. Where you finish.


The game is about winning, everything else doesn’t matter. That’s why we have a list of managers with win% not pretty football% or any other crap you want to come out with. Had Flitcroft been 5th and Evans way down the list like Flitcroft you’d be using the win% to claim Flitcroft was the better manager and you know you would. But because the most important stat shows Evans to be our 5th best manager in our history you don’t like it.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:06 pm

You are correct there is no pretty football%.

Go to the stagsnet records page, what's at the very top of the list? Honours. It's what you actually win that counts not necessarily the amount you win (although to get the honours you've got to have a decent win% over the season)

Top of the club records is honours. Top of the honours list is league championships. Then it's other promotions, then it's play off finishes. Guess who's season is on that list. Higher up than managers and their win%.

Can you help me find the play off position in February list? I can't see it. It's moot really because DF was 2nd in February the following season.

Granted, had Evans not jumped ship he would likely be on that list somewhere. All we know is he did leave and his side failed to make the play offs that year. Whether due to the drop in morale because Evans abandoned them or Flitcroft couldn't manage them (with a play off position and a knats knacker off automatics the very next season I'd say morale dropped again my opinion)

If Flitcroft had been 5th on win% then we'd have either got play off last season and been successful (no idea if the win% uses play off matches too?) or would have got the results needed for automatics in which case he would be the better manager because he would've delivered what Evans didnt. That's how it works. So if Evans was way down the list he'd either have finished lower in his season he finished 12th or be lower than 5rh when he left.

But no Evans won 45% of his games. It commendable, I've not denied that. What he did with those 45% wins amounted to naff all. Flitcroft won less but finished in 4th place which, was our highest finish for 18 years, I don't know about you but I'd rather be in the play offs or automatics at the end of a season over a 45% win rate. There's a angers on that list with a worse win% than Evans but achieved so much more. That's the difference.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:12 pm

gazza1988 wrote:You are correct there is no pretty football%.

Go to the stagsnet records page, what's at the very top of the list? Honours. It's what you actually win that counts not necessarily the amount you win (although to get the honours you've got to have a decent win% over the season)

Top of the club records is honours. Top of the honours list is league championships. Then it's other promotions, then it's play off finishes. Guess who's season is on that list. Higher up than managers and their win%.

Can you help me find the play off position in February list? I can't see it. It's moot really because DF was 2nd in February the following season.

Granted, had Evans not jumped ship he would likely be on that list somewhere. All we know is he did leave and his side failed to make the play offs that year. Whether due to the drop in morale because Evans abandoned them or Flitcroft couldn't manage them (with a play off position and a knats knacker off automatics the very next season I'd say morale dropped again my opinion)

If Flitcroft had been 5th on win% then we'd have either got play off last season and been successful (no idea if the win% uses play off matches too?) or would have got the results needed for automatics in which case he would be the better manager because he would've delivered what Evans didnt. That's how it works. So if Evans was way down the list he'd either have finished lower in his season he finished 12th or be lower than 5rh when he left.

But no Evans won 45% of his games. It commendable, I've not denied that. What he did with those 45% wins amounted to naff all. Flitcroft won less but finished in 4th place which, was our highest finish for 18 years, I don't know about you but I'd rather be in the play offs or automatics at the end of a season over a 45% win rate. There's a angers on that list with a worse win% than Evans but achieved so much more. That's the difference.


You contradict yourself more than Boris Johnson :lol:
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:16 pm

The crucial thing is though Dan. You're avoiding the debate now. I said decent win% not 45 or above. Fact of the matter is Flitcroft could have got us promoted and still retained the same win% he possesses now. All he needed was a draw vs mk dons. We wouldn't even be having this debate now. He still got us those play offs, Evans didn't. That is the crucial deciding factor between them both. The fact Flitcroft had us playing great stuff at time and 4 players in the team of the season further bolsters his claim.

You've got a win% as argument. It's your only valid argument. It's not solely enough. I'll take a lower win% and achieve something over 45% and achieve sod all.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:21 pm

gazza1988 wrote:The crucial thing is though Dan. You're avoiding the debate now. I said decent win% not 45 or above. Fact of the matter is Flitcroft could have got us promoted and still retained the same win% he possesses now. All he needed was a draw vs mk dons. We wouldn't even be having this debate now. He still got us those play offs, Evans didn't. That is the crucial deciding factor between them both. The fact Flitcroft had us playing great stuff at time and 4 players in the team of the season further bolsters his claim.

You've got a win% as argument. It's your only valid argument. It's not solely enough. I'll take a lower win% and achieve something over 45% and achieve sod all.


Who were the four and how many of them did Flitcroft actually sign? Being able to spot and attract a good player is an essential part of being a good manager.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:32 pm

Also Gaza which team of the season are you using (I know there are lots of also rans naming their team of the season) as the PFA team of the season only contains 2 Stags players for 2018/19.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Rob » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:52 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 stat backs you up and that's win%. That win% got him 12th and 5th place with 12 games to go. Flitcroft got us 9th and 4th. That's the stat that matters chief. Where you finish.


The game is about winning, everything else doesn’t matter. That’s why we have a list of managers with win% not pretty football% or any other crap you want to come out with. Had Flitcroft been 5th and Evans way down the list like Flitcroft you’d be using the win% to claim Flitcroft was the better manager and you know you would. But because the most important stat shows Evans to be our 5th best manager in our history you don’t like it.


I think you'll be the only one that thinks Evans is our 5th best manager ever Dan :lol: As shown with Coxy's stats you can massage them all you like, the stat that really, really matters is where did you finish. Coxy won the Conference, Greaves won promotion and at Wembley, Dave Smith promotion, Peter Morris promotion, George Foster (our hero) promotion, Andy King play-offs, Billy Dearden promotion, Keith Curle (not my hero!) Play-offs, David Flitcroft play-offs, Steve Evans nil. Evans is above most of those managers on those pointless win ratio stats, he spent the sort of money never given to any of his predecessors and achieved absolutely nothing. Andy King, working under Haslam with 5 bob and a pack of wurthers got us into the play-offs, I think I know who I think was the better manager for MTFC. The stats do not show what the wage budget was, who the chairman was, what injuries you had etc, etc. Look at what Billy achieved under Haslam, yet Evans, who achieved nothing, is above him by a distance on that list. I think you know where I'm coming from Dan :D
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:56 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Also Gaza which team of the season are you using (I know there are lots of also rans naming their team of the season) as the PFA team of the season only contains 2 Stags players for 2018/19.

Whichever one was stated on the official website. I didn't go out looking for all of them just remember 4 players were named along with photos for the evening they went to. Couldn't tell you which team of the season it was for, at a guess the league sponsors team of the season. The ofa would be walker and 1 other so 1 of Flitcroft signing and 1 Murray. Still no Evans. No matter which one there would likely be at least 1 of our players on it.

As for the other question. Murray signed 3 of them and Flitcroft the other. Still 0 for Evans. Flitcroft got the best out of all 4 of them (granted walker is the exception because he only played for Flitcroft.)
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:58 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Also Gaza which team of the season are you using (I know there are lots of also rans naming their team of the season) as the PFA team of the season only contains 2 Stags players for 2018/19.

Whichever one was stated on the official website. I didn't go out looking for all of them just remember 4 players were named along with photos for the evening they went to. Couldn't tell you which team of the season it was for, at a guess the league sponsors team of the season. The ofa would be walker and 1 other so 1 of Flitcroft signing and 1 Murray. Still no Evans. No matter which one there would likely be at least 1 of our players on it.

As for the other question. Murray signed 3 of them and Flitcroft the other. Still 0 for Evans. Flitcroft got the best out of all 4 of them (granted walker is the exception because he only played for Flitcroft.)



I think I can just about follow that Gaza.

As far as I am aware the players were Pearce, Benning and Hamilton (all Murray signings) together with Walker who was a loaned signed by Flitcroft. The two named in the PFA list were Pearce and Walker.

My point being that 3 out of the 4 were signed by Adam Murray who you and Dan and a few more are giving no credit to and are dismissive of his time here. Hamilton was sold for the biggest fee our club has received for at least a couple of decades and other Murray signings (eg Rose) have also brought fees into the club. This is precisely the model the club is now trying to follow and is agreed by many to be our best chance of progress.

Surely another measure of a good manager should be what he leaves behind. In Murray’s case, I would say he left some very valuable assets whereas Flitcroft’s main man was on loan so was valueless and Evan’s contributions were a financial liability.

I don’t hanker for any ex manager to return to the club as it usually doesn’t work (eg Dearden) but if it were to be anyone it would be Adam Murray who, if you take budgets into account, must be our most successful recent manager if only for his legacies.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:33 pm

Not dismissive of Murray at all. I've frequently pointed out that Murray signings shone through Evans signings. Unfortunately for Murray he had a smaller budget than either of them. I'd have have him back see what he's learnt but I wouldn't want any of them back to be honest. I'd rather have fresh impetus.

Murray comes back the second he goes defensive in a game the knives would be out. Evans the second we get to February we'd wonder if he would leave for China. Flitcroft similar to Evans wonder if we will actually stay where we are at the end of the season. Not all from one person but enough for uncertainty to set in with each scenario.

It's a cliche but generally true. Positivity breeds positivity, uncertainty breeds uncertainty and negativity breeds negativity.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dan » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:52 pm

gazza1988 wrote:The crucial thing is though Dan. You're avoiding the debate now. I said decent win% not 45 or above. Fact of the matter is Flitcroft could have got us promoted and still retained the same win% he possesses now. All he needed was a draw vs mk dons. We wouldn't even be having this debate now. He still got us those play offs, Evans didn't. That is the crucial deciding factor between them both. The fact Flitcroft had us playing great stuff at time and 4 players in the team of the season further bolsters his claim.

You've got a win% as argument. It's your only valid argument. It's not solely enough. I'll take a lower win% and achieve something over 45% and achieve sod all.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record I’ll say it again because it’s clearly not sinking in. Winning games is THE most important thing to do as a football manager. That’s W I N N I N G. Something Flitcroft kept bottling which is why he’s still unemployed. I’m not avoiding a debate, there is no debate. Steve Evans is 5th in our best managers win % ratio FACT. IDGAF how you or Rob or anyone else want to twist it to suit your argument because you don’t like Evans, that’s a fact. Flitcroft and Evans both left the club with the team sitting in a play off place FACT. Flitcroft and Evans both achieved nothing, zilch, nada, they both failed with the biggest budgets the club have ever given a manager. They both left us in League Two. I’m sure you’ll type another 500 words of absoloute rubbish to try and say otherwise but I can’t be arsed anymore. Some of the stuff you’re coming out with is just embarrassing now, like winning not being solely enough to judge a manager on :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:18 pm

It makes no difference in real terms if the sum of the season means the team will be playing in the same league the following year.

As I said earlier, what a manager leaves behind is what counts be that positive or negative equity in the players and team he has bought. Promotion and relegation are paramount but if neither happens it doesn’t matter what the win percentage is as the end result is the same.

Bury’s manager got them promoted two years ago but does that make him a good manager when the club was liquidated partly because of the money he spent to achieve it? I’m sure their fans would rather have enjoyed an average season and still be in league 2.

We all have different criteria to judge a manager and sometimes it’s just down to liking someone’s personality. There is no right or wrong and I’m sure we will never all agree so maybe we should agree to differ and not turn it into my dad is bigger than your dad.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Dave Wayne » Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:59 pm

Rob wrote:
Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:1 stat backs you up and that's win%. That win% got him 12th and 5th place with 12 games to go. Flitcroft got us 9th and 4th. That's the stat that matters chief. Where you finish.


The game is about winning, everything else doesn’t matter. That’s why we have a list of managers with win% not pretty football% or any other crap you want to come out with. Had Flitcroft been 5th and Evans way down the list like Flitcroft you’d be using the win% to claim Flitcroft was the better manager and you know you would. But because the most important stat shows Evans to be our 5th best manager in our history you don’t like it.


I think you'll be the only one that thinks Evans is our 5th best manager ever Dan :lol: As shown with Coxy's stats you can massage them all you like, the stat that really, really matters is where did you finish. Coxy won the Conference, Greaves won promotion and at Wembley, Dave Smith promotion, Peter Morris promotion, George Foster (our hero) promotion, Andy King play-offs, Billy Dearden promotion, Keith Curle (not my hero!) Play-offs, David Flitcroft play-offs, Steve Evans nil. Evans is above most of those managers on those pointless win ratio stats, he spent the sort of money never given to any of his predecessors and achieved absolutely nothing. Andy King, working under Haslam with 5 bob and a pack of wurthers got us into the play-offs, I think I know who I think was the better manager for MTFC. The stats do not show what the wage budget was, who the chairman was, what injuries you had etc, etc. Look at what Billy achieved under Haslam, yet Evans, who achieved nothing, is above him by a distance on that list. I think you know where I'm coming from Dan :D

Despite not actually achieving anything in terms of promotions or play offs, I would also add Steve Parkin to your list of managers whose win percentage doesn't show the true picture. To get so close to the play offs twice, under the difficult conditions he had to work under with transfer embargos, players not being paid, etc. was outstanding, especially as it was his first managerial role.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:25 pm

Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:The crucial thing is though Dan. You're avoiding the debate now. I said decent win% not 45 or above. Fact of the matter is Flitcroft could have got us promoted and still retained the same win% he possesses now. All he needed was a draw vs mk dons. We wouldn't even be having this debate now. He still got us those play offs, Evans didn't. That is the crucial deciding factor between them both. The fact Flitcroft had us playing great stuff at time and 4 players in the team of the season further bolsters his claim.

You've got a win% as argument. It's your only valid argument. It's not solely enough. I'll take a lower win% and achieve something over 45% and achieve sod all.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record I’ll say it again because it’s clearly not sinking in. Winning games is THE most important thing to do as a football manager. That’s W I N N I N G. Something Flitcroft kept bottling which is why he’s still unemployed. I’m not avoiding a debate, there is no debate. Steve Evans is 5th in our best managers win % ratio FACT. IDGAF how you or Rob or anyone else want to twist it to suit your argument because you don’t like Evans, that’s a fact. Flitcroft and Evans both left the club with the team sitting in a play off place FACT. Flitcroft and Evans both achieved nothing, zilch, nada, they both failed with the biggest budgets the club have ever given a manager. They both left us in League Two. I’m sure you’ll type another 500 words of absoloute rubbish to try and say otherwise but I can’t be arsed anymore. Some of the stuff you’re coming out with is just embarrassing now, like winning not being solely enough to judge a manager on :lol: :lol: :lol:


The length you go through to let people know you don't like flitcroft is mental, give it a rest you massive man child.
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby The One » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:01 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
Dan wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:The crucial thing is though Dan. You're avoiding the debate now. I said decent win% not 45 or above. Fact of the matter is Flitcroft could have got us promoted and still retained the same win% he possesses now. All he needed was a draw vs mk dons. We wouldn't even be having this debate now. He still got us those play offs, Evans didn't. That is the crucial deciding factor between them both. The fact Flitcroft had us playing great stuff at time and 4 players in the team of the season further bolsters his claim.

You've got a win% as argument. It's your only valid argument. It's not solely enough. I'll take a lower win% and achieve something over 45% and achieve sod all.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record I’ll say it again because it’s clearly not sinking in. Winning games is THE most important thing to do as a football manager. That’s W I N N I N G. Something Flitcroft kept bottling which is why he’s still unemployed. I’m not avoiding a debate, there is no debate. Steve Evans is 5th in our best managers win % ratio FACT. IDGAF how you or Rob or anyone else want to twist it to suit your argument because you don’t like Evans, that’s a fact. Flitcroft and Evans both left the club with the team sitting in a play off place FACT. Flitcroft and Evans both achieved nothing, zilch, nada, they both failed with the biggest budgets the club have ever given a manager. They both left us in League Two. I’m sure you’ll type another 500 words of absoloute rubbish to try and say otherwise but I can’t be arsed anymore. Some of the stuff you’re coming out with is just embarrassing now, like winning not being solely enough to judge a manager on :lol: :lol: :lol:


The length you go through to let people know you don't like flitcroft is mental, give it a rest you massive man child.


Agree its boring
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:58 pm

Rob wrote:I think you'll be the only one that thinks Evans is our 5th best manager ever Dan :lol: As shown with Coxy's stats you can massage them all you like, the stat that really, really matters is where did you finish. Coxy won the Conference and made play offs, Greaves won promotion and at Wembley, Dave Smith promotion, Peter Morris promotion, George Foster (our hero) promotion, Andy King play-offs, Billy Dearden and Stuart Watkiss promotion, Keith Curle (not my hero!) Play-offs, David Flitcroft play-offs, Steve Evans Chinese Fantasy League :lol: . Evans is above most of those managers on those pointless win ratio stats, he spent the sort of money never given to any of his predecessors and achieved absolutely nothing. Andy King, working under Haslam with 5 bob and a pack of wurthers got us into the play-offs, I think I know who I think was the better manager for MTFC. The stats do not show what the wage budget was, who the chairman was, what injuries you had etc, etc. Look at what Billy achieved under Haslam, yet Evans, who achieved nothing, is above him by a distance on that list. I think you know where I'm coming from Dan :D
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Re: Paul Cox??

Postby Rob » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:42 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
Rob wrote:I think you'll be the only one that thinks Evans is our 5th best manager ever Dan :lol: As shown with Coxy's stats you can massage them all you like, the stat that really, really matters is where did you finish. Coxy won the Conference and made play offs, Greaves won promotion and at Wembley, Dave Smith promotion, Peter Morris promotion, George Foster (our hero) promotion, Andy King play-offs, Billy Dearden and Stuart Watkiss promotion, Keith Curle (not my hero!) Play-offs, David Flitcroft play-offs, Steve Evans Chinese Fantasy League :lol: . Evans is above most of those managers on those pointless win ratio stats, he spent the sort of money never given to any of his predecessors and achieved absolutely nothing. Andy King, working under Haslam with 5 bob and a pack of wurthers got us into the play-offs, I think I know who I think was the better manager for MTFC. The stats do not show what the wage budget was, who the chairman was, what injuries you had etc, etc. Look at what Billy achieved under Haslam, yet Evans, who achieved nothing, is above him by a distance on that list. I think you know where I'm coming from Dan :D


You're so pedantic Darren :lol:

You have no idea how hard it was for me to include Curle in that list!
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