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Salary cap.

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Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:06 pm

We have heard much of the salary cap in past weeks but all seems to have gone silent at a time when clubs are considering offers to players etc.

Does anyone know when the EFL will determine any cap for L1 & L2?
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Kernow » Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:46 pm

The word out of the club is that they do not see a salary as being enforceable.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:18 pm

on June 19, Steve Hymas said in a facebook discussion:
"all the staff are on furlough.nothing much going on .a few irons in the fire"
(Q: when are you expected to hear if there will be a wage cap this year?) "it’s been talked about but hard to enforce"


Prior to that, the last we have heard was from David Sharpe on 10 June:
"We’ve got issues that we need to deal with, salary cap being one, we can’t rush into anything because I don’t want to rush into agreements and then a salary cap comes into place. So we have to be very careful. I’m working off about 5 different spreadsheets at the moment with different salary caps. One with no salary cap. One with a 1.25 salary cap, 1.5, 1.75. I’m trying to piece it all together so we stay within our limits if one does come into place. And also we don’t know when the season’s going to start. So we’ve got to be careful we don’t sign players too early, and end up paying out and paying out and still no games and then a salary cap comes into place. It’s my job to manage that situation."


And prior to that, was John Radford's letter on behalf of League Two clubs:
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:08 pm

Vote to take place on July 29th on a proposal to limit the amount of money that can be spent on wages for players over the age of 21 and including agents fee etc.

£1.5m for L2

£2.5m for L1.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Billy the fish » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:45 pm

oldweststander wrote:Vote to take place on July 29th on a proposal to limit the amount of money that can be spent on wages for players over the age of 21 and including agents fee etc.

£1.5m for L2

£2.5m for L1.


If we are to kick the new season off in September that has been suggested that would give clubs just August to conclude any business .
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:30 pm

oldweststander wrote:Vote to take place on July 29th on a proposal to limit the amount of money that can be spent on wages for players over the age of 21 and including agents fee etc.

£1.5m for L2

£2.5m for L1.


Is that for the upcoming 20/21 season or to be implemented the year after? I had previously seen somewhere that it may take a while to come in to effect.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:05 pm

20/21 season.

Clubs have already been informed and will be considering their views.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby stag324 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:21 pm

oldweststander wrote:20/21 season.

Clubs have already been informed and will be considering their views.


This answers the Maynard question
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:23 pm

That roughly equates to 1.6k a week average wage for a squad of 18 senior players.

I disagree with the salary cap. It restricts ambitious clubs.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:59 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:That roughly equates to 1.6k a week average wage for a squad of 18 senior players.

I disagree with the salary cap. It restricts ambitious clubs.


Agree with this. Quite surprised that we were the ones to put forward the proposal when all the sound bites coming out of the club seem to support the idea that we will be going for it again this season.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:08 pm

Salary caps are absolutely bananas.

Clubs need to self police this, not just have arbitrary caps across the board.

Said before, why should we be denied an opportunity just because Stevenage or Port Vale are struggling to pay the bills. A league system is a meritocracy. If clubs can't afford to compete, then so be it, play the YT. It will even it's self out over time and if a.club does get a double relegation, it will return if it has the fanbase. A salary cap just for L1 and 2 just undermines the whole thing.

This will make the gaps between the leagues bigger and will make any breakthroughs much harder for clubs like us.

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Re: Salary cap.

Postby bellwhiff » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:15 pm

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Re: Salary cap.

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:23 pm

It's not even communism though is it. It's communism for the poorest while the money is still king in the prem and champ. It's self preservation and it's a flipping disgrace.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:37 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:That roughly equates to 1.6k a week average wage for a squad of 18 senior players.

I disagree with the salary cap. It restricts ambitious clubs.


The EFL's view is that on a budget of £1.5m the average wage for a player over the age of 21 will be circa £75k a year. Obviously, your top player may get more and your up and coming players less than that.

Not my maths it's the EFL's.

Not forgetting that agents fees also come out of the same budget.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:54 pm

from https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rick ... -sx5v5w9rq

Rick Parry: Clubs have saved people during the coronavirus crisis – my job is to save them
Henry Winter, Chief Football Writer
Monday June 29 2020, 5.00pm, The Times

When Rick Parry went for his interview to be English Football League chairman, he was asked why he was interested in the EFL. He had run the Premier League, after all, and run Liverpool. “I said because the EFL matters,” Parry recalls. “Seventy one, seventy two really important clubs, 18 million fans a year, some great football, some great characters. It’s vibrant. And the clubs are at the heart of their communities.” Parry pauses. “Covid definitely wasn’t in the job description.”

This week, Parry’s clubs will highlight the life-saving community work they’ve done during the pandemic while a board meeting will discuss the future of the leagues. It has been a challenging period for Parry, trying to ensure that the pyramid stays in shape despite the financial tempest blowing through clubs with their draining costs, closed turnstiles and revenue streams becoming trickles.

“Most nights have been sleepless,” Parry admits, talking this morning via the video conferencing app Teams. Yet the 65-year-old has managed to cajole clubs to agree to a formula to see out the season, either through a points-per-game (PPG) formula but retaining the play-offs, such as the Sky Bet League Two final today, or completion of the Championship programme. Parry’s experience, patience and persuasive skills have been tested.

Clubs like Peterborough United and Tranmere Rovers felt the unforgiving edge of PPG. “When you’re taking tough decisions you’re never going to please everybody,” Parry replies. “Whatever formula you come up with for ending a season some people are going to be aggrieved but then they’re aggrieved at the end of every season anyway.

“There are always winners. There are always losers. It’s a game of passion, emotion. When I was at Liverpool I used to say it was a game of black and white, never any shades of grey, either things were great or awful. Clubs that have done well out of PPG are ecstatic. Those that haven’t are dismal. But what we did was fair. It was logical.

“My preference was to play out the season always at every level but the clubs in the lower divisions took what was probably the right decision in the end. Trying to get all the games played simultaneously would have been challenging. Our aim is to get through this crisis, not just in terms of the next few months, but the next year, the next two years, with 72 clubs intact. I’m not subscribing to that ‘maybe 50 clubs will go to the wall’ song by any stretch of the imagination.

“Bury haven’t been forgotten [after their expulsion because of financial chaos]. There is a very large vacuum in that community and people trying to resurrect football in Bury, as we’ve seen many times over the years, a club goes and a fledging one emerges. It’s about keeping the entire pyramid alive. I don’t subscribe to the talk of ‘well maybe it’s time for a trimming, maybe we’ve got too many clubs’. I come from completely the opposite perspective. It’s more important than ever to keep them alive. Clearly there are a few who are finding it tough but I’m genuinely optimistic we will find solutions and we will get through it.”

Even with their own existence under threat, clubs rallied to people in need. “We’ve seen the best of the clubs in many ways, shining examples in helping the community,” Parry continues. During the pandemic, EFL clubs have delivered more than 210,000 food packages, 13,000 items of personal protection equipment and 3,500 prescriptions. They’ve made more than 120,000 phone-calls to vulnerable and elderly. “Just think of the impact that has if your manager picks up the phone and asks how you are?” Parry adds. “It’s a simple thing to do but incredibly impactful.

“Clubs do save lives by being there, by providing support, also by providing hope. In a time of crisis having hope is incredibly important. It’s really important not to give up. It’s important to have something to dream about, and football 100 per cent brings that.

“Your bond with your football club is a massively deep emotional bond that is lifelong and spans generations so people will turn to their clubs in times of need. It is a big responsibility that we carry but it’s also a huge opportunity. It’s fantastic that so many clubs have recognised that responsibility and responded so positively.”

He thinks of the 36.6 million people in England and Wales who live within a ten-mile radius of an EFL club. “Our reach is extraordinary,” Parry says. “Many of our clubs are in the most deprived areas of the country. During the previous season, 2018-19, we touched around 900,000 people through the community schemes.”

During the pandemic, more than 30 clubs have opened their doors to the NHS, offering space and facilities in stadia for testing and accommodation. Plymouth Argyle were among the first to throw open their doors for the NHS. “It’s difficult to single clubs out — I feel I’m being unkind to others who also do brilliant work — but Plymouth are a really good example,” Parry says. “Burton Albion are another very good example. They responded instantly as soon as the crisis started setting up a food distribution hub, making the stadium available to NHS for staff and key workers. Middlesbrough were delivering food parcels straight away, school meals and hundreds of phone calls to elderly and disabled supporters. There are beacons everywhere you look.”

The beacons will burn with even more hope for the clubs themselves if they can welcome back fans as early as possible next season. At Wednesday’s EFL meeting they may discuss when that start will be. Parry sounds upbeat. “The green shoots of recovery are definitely there. I don’t want to pre-empt what the government’s going to say in the next couple of weeks but the talk about spectators returning, albeit gradually, is definitely ramping up in volume at the moment.

“We absolutely mustn’t get complacent. I don’t think for one minute the virus is permanently vanished but compared with where we were even six weeks ago there are definitely grounds for cautious optimism. We are not out of the woods yet. I’ve never known a situation where there are so many moving parts and where there is so much uncertainty. Planning ahead is really difficult because we just don’t know.”

What everyone does know, and accepts, is the need for more financial sanity and stability amongst EFL clubs. “It is a huge wake-up call not just in the costs but in terms of the way that we share revenues,” Parry adds. “The lottery that is the Championship with total wages at 107 per cent of turnover, losses in hundreds of millions, wasn’t sustainable at any time. It’s definitely not sustainable now. Something has to be done not just because of the crisis but to make sure clubs are properly sustainable going forward.”

Like? “Salary caps are being discussed at every level. We already have salary caps in Leagues One and Leagues Two but it’s a different form of salary cap that’s now being debated. The problem with the previous cap it was a percentage of revenue. In the case of some clubs like Bury it was a percentage of revenue that never actually arrived. A hard salary cap is a different form of cap. In theory, it is simpler to monitor.”

Reports suggest a cap of £2.5 million for League One clubs and £1.5 million for League Two with players aged under 21 exempt. One figure mentioned for the Championship was £18 million.

“The difference will be the debate at Championship level,” Parry says, “but again you can’t go beyond the basic number that says 107 per cent of turnover spent on wages. Over the last five seasons, it has been 99 per cent or above every single season. It’s a trend that has, frankly, been getting worse despite the fact that we have the profit and sustainability rules, we still have clubs in the Championship racking up £300m in losses. They are not actually making the clubs either profitable or sustainable.”

Parry wants money from the Premier League to be more equitable, spread around, rather than primarily lavished on relegated clubs like Huddersfield Town, Cardiff City and Fulham from last season with West Bromwich Albion, Stoke City and Swansea City also eligible. “Parachute payments are divisive. We have six clubs in the Championship who between them are receiving around £226 million in parachute payments (this season) and then the other 18 clubs receiving £81 million between them.

“It is not an equitable split. It encourages irrational behaviour from the clubs who are not in receipt of parachute payments. I definitely think they should go. The parachute payment addresses the symptom but not the problem. Why are they helping clubs who are dropping out of the Premier League? They are helping them because there is a chasm. Why don’t we address the chasm? Then we wouldn’t need the parachute payments.

“If you look a couple of seasons ago, you had Leeds United receiving around £4 million in TV money and Huddersfield who were in the Premier League, albeit briefly, receiving £100 million. How can that be right? For the benefit of clubs in the Premier League and in the Championship we need to get rid of the cliff edge. We need to narrow the gap between the two.”

One of the suggestions to address cost down the pyramid has been to regionalise North and South. “I don’t see that. Obviously in football you never say never but definitely not on my horizon at the moment.” Parry’s immediate horizon was Wembley for tonight’s League Two play-off final, and a moment to reflect on his work during the pandemic. “Working with great people, working with great clubs is a privilege,” Parry says. “The EFL matters.”
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:25 am

Well what an easy and totally unfair way of maintaining the status quo.

In other words let's make it harder for the lower clubs to progress up the pyramid even if they are sustainable. The man wants sacking and the lower league clubs need to rebel. Lower the gap between premiership and championship but bugger the rest.

Jimmy Hill must be turning in his grave.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby arsene wengers coat » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:51 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Well what an easy and totally unfair way of maintaining the status quo.

In other words let's make it harder for the lower clubs to progress up the pyramid even if they are sustainable. The man wants sacking and the lower league clubs need to rebel. Lower the gap between premiership and championship but bugger the rest.

Jimmy Hill must be turning in his grave.


Precisely.

Dressed up as being in our interest too.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:23 am

from https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... deals.html

Championship clubs eye £18m salary cap with vote mooted on radical reforms to transform transfer deals
Championship clubs have been asked to provide indicative votes on a salary cap
The EFL are seeking to gauge support for the introduction of an £18m limit
A formal vote will be held at the end of the month if the proposals gain support
By MATT HUGHES FOR THE DAILY MAIL
30 June 2020

Championship clubs have been asked to provide indicative votes on radical plans that would transform the way they conduct transfer business and pay players from next season.

Under a series of proposed reforms seen by Sportsmail, the EFL are seeking to gauge support for the introduction of an £18million salary cap, with a spending tax to be imposed on clubs who breach the limit.

That would be shared out among their rivals, which would replace existing profit and sustainability rules. If the proposals developed by the Championship financial control working party gain sufficient support, the EFL will hold a formal vote at the end of the month, with a view to bringing them in before the transfer window and the start of next season.

Key elements include:

The introduction of a total squad salary cap of £18m, including all taxes, image rights and bonus fees, but with no limit on individual player salaries.
Deductions from the cap to be permitted for the wages of Under 21 players, any income from loan deals and payments received as a result of promotion and/or success in cup competitions.
A five per cent 'overrun facility' to be included allowing clubs to breach the cap by a small margin, but with a spending tax to be imposed on those who exceed the buffer. The tax would be on a sliding scale - 50p for every £1 overspend up to £600,000, £1 for every £1 from £600,000-£900,000 and £3 for every £1 over £900,000 - and the money shared equally between Championship clubs complying with the cap.
Special dispensation for clubs relegated from the Premier League in receipt of parachute payments, who would be permitted to register contracts they committed to prior to relegation at a divisional average wage - proposed at £720,000 a year based on a cap of £18m.

If the proposals gain sufficient support, the EFL will hold a formal vote at the end of the month

Maintaining a squad size of 25, in line with the Premier League, as opposed to Leagues One and Two who are considering a cut to 22 next season, 20 a year later.

The overrun and spending tax would be policed by the EFL, with any breaches referred to an independent disciplinary commission with penalties, including points deductions, at their disposal.

Points deductions would be automatic for clubs found to only have complied with the rules through deliberate non-disclosure of accurate information and/or providing misleading information.

The EFL have pencilled in July 29 for a formal vote if clubs opt to take them that far, though that is not guaranteed. A number of the biggest spenders are opposed to a cap, while the PFA will fight it, as Sportsmail has reported.

If the salary cap and spending tax are introduced, the existing profitability and sustainability rules would be removed, but current charges against clubs such as Sheffield Wednesday and Derby would continue and they would be punished if found guilty.


from https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/sport/leed ... y-18477098

PFA warns of 'unlawful' EFL salary cap in two-page document sent to Leeds United and other squads
The EFL are reportedly keen on implementing a salary cap for all three of its leagues
24 JUN 2020

The Professional Footballers' Association has warned players the EFL's plans to put in place a salary cap may be 'unlawful'.

The Mirror say they have seen a two-page document sent out by the PFA to players - including those of Leeds United - about proposals that would see wages drop significantly in Leagues One and Two in the long-term.

EFL bosses are said to want to bring in a salary cap of £2.5m per season for League One - meaning an average salary of £2,400-a-week - and £1.25m for League Two as they look to make changes on the back of the financial crisis caused by coronavirus.

It's also being reported the EFL want to implement a salary cap at Championship level, but with a much greater total of between £15m to £20m per season.

Though, there is only so much the EFL can hope to do with leagues bosses knowing they have no power over existing contracts.

The EFL are hoping to bring in the measures in time for the 2020/21 season.

But, the PFA are standing firm on the issue, warning League bosses they must first consult with players, and informing the players themselves that their clubs are not allowed to reduced salaries without permission.

In the document obtained by the Mirror, the PFA tell its players: "The PFA has made it clear to the EFL that matters relating to the employment of players, which includes matters of pay, must be considered before the Professional Football Negotiating and Consultative Committee (the “PFNCC”).

“The PFA is a member of the PFNCC, so would have an opportunity to scrutinise any plans and represent the best interests of players.

“It would be unlawful for the EFL and its clubs to vote on this issue and change the EFL Regulations without first consulting the PFNCC, which is the appropriate forum for matters relating to player contracts.

“If your contract extends beyond this season, your terms and conditions of employment will remain the same. Your club cannot change your salary without your consent, as has been the case with furlough and deferral arrangements.

“A potential club might tell you that you have to accept a lower salary because the salary cap is being introduced from next season.

“However, until such time that a salary cap is agreed by the members of the PFNCC, you are not obliged to agree to a reduced salary in line with the proposed salary cap.

"We do however envisage clubs looking to pay less for player salaries post-COVID-19.”
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby bellwhiff » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:16 pm

It’s a restraint of trade in effect.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby part time pete » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:50 pm

bellwhiff wrote:It’s a restraint of trade in effect.


The way around that is that clubs can sign and pay what they like, but only can register players to play in the league’s competition in such a way that clubs adhere to a salary cap.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby I am Spartacus » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:50 am

All the clubs in league one and two have agreed in principal to the salary cap with the exception of Portsmouth and Sunderland. Sunderland say that the existing rules regarding wages to income ratio work very well. Fine when they think they are the biggest fish in a small pond in League 1 though not when they are the small fish in a big pond in the Premier League. In essence Sunderland would have to have to work harder to develop their youth systems and management structure in line with what Sunderland look down their nose at and perceive to be smaller clubs.

When will clubs realise that it is not just about them, they are one of 72 members of a league and it is, to quote Pierce Brosnan in Hot Fuzz, about ‘the greater good’. The proposed rules are to safeguard 72 clubs, communities, economies and livelihoods. Not just the balance sheet of a few.

Remember due to Sky, the revolution in football will be televised.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby I am Spartacus » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:59 am

bellwhiff wrote:It’s a restraint of trade in effect.


In what way? The clubs will agree together to only spend X per season on players. Players will still have freedom of movement and freedom to sign for whatever clubs offer them. It’s just that the clubs will only be spending X amount each. Every business hasa budget to work to, the EFL as collection of 72 clubs are agreeing to budget restraints per business and are in no way proposing to affect the way an employee can negotiate his or her contract. The PFA are up in arms, well mainly Gordon (£2m per year) Taylor) as his Union is one of, IMO, lions led by a donkey. Which in the last 30 yrs has not bore too much fruit for a Union.

Football at our level may well have to dust it’s self down, open it’s eyes to a brand new world. Especially agents and the players they represent.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:24 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:All the clubs in league one and two have agreed in principal to the salary cap with the exception of Portsmouth and Sunderland. Sunderland say that the existing rules regarding wages to income ratio work very well. Fine when they think they are the biggest fish in a small pond in League 1 though not when they are the small fish in a big pond in the Premier League. In essence Sunderland would have to have to work harder to develop their youth systems and management structure in line with what Sunderland look down their nose at and perceive to be smaller clubs.

When will clubs realise that it is not just about them, they are one of 72 members of a league and it is, to quote Pierce Brosnan in Hot Fuzz, about ‘the greater good’. The proposed rules are to safeguard 72 clubs, communities, economies and livelihoods. Not just the balance sheet of a few.

Remember due to Sky, the revolution in football will be televised.


I’m pretty sure Pierce Brosnan is not in Hot Fuzz?
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Stags 2002 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:38 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:All the clubs in league one and two have agreed in principal to the salary cap with the exception of Portsmouth and Sunderland. Sunderland say that the existing rules regarding wages to income ratio work very well. Fine when they think they are the biggest fish in a small pond in League 1 though not when they are the small fish in a big pond in the Premier League. In essence Sunderland would have to have to work harder to develop their youth systems and management structure in line with what Sunderland look down their nose at and perceive to be smaller clubs.

When will clubs realise that it is not just about them, they are one of 72 members of a league and it is, to quote Pierce Brosnan in Hot Fuzz, about ‘the greater good’. The proposed rules are to safeguard 72 clubs, communities, economies and livelihoods. Not just the balance sheet of a few.

Remember due to Sky, the revolution in football will be televised.


I’m pretty sure Pierce Brosnan is not in Hot Fuzz?


I can only assume he's getting confused abouts his bonds as Timothy Dalton is in the film :lol:
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby I am Spartacus » Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Stags 2002 wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:All the clubs in league one and two have agreed in principal to the salary cap with the exception of Portsmouth and Sunderland. Sunderland say that the existing rules regarding wages to income ratio work very well. Fine when they think they are the biggest fish in a small pond in League 1 though not when they are the small fish in a big pond in the Premier League. In essence Sunderland would have to have to work harder to develop their youth systems and management structure in line with what Sunderland look down their nose at and perceive to be smaller clubs.

When will clubs realise that it is not just about them, they are one of 72 members of a league and it is, to quote Pierce Brosnan in Hot Fuzz, about ‘the greater good’. The proposed rules are to safeguard 72 clubs, communities, economies and livelihoods. Not just the balance sheet of a few.

Remember due to Sky, the revolution in football will be televised.


I’m pretty sure Pierce Brosnan is not in Hot Fuzz?


I can only assume he's getting confused abouts his bonds as Timothy Dalton is in the film :lol:


That’s the one I was thinking of, I always get Sean Connery confused with Daniel Craig.
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