{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

Fitness

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Fitness

Postby Vice President » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:25 pm

Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...
Vice President
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby lifestags » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:52 pm

We had the same fitness coach under Murray as what we had at the start of this season.

When Evans came in and took over Murray he said the players weren't fit enough, now GC has said the same.

We should probably not employ him again?
lifestags
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:50 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby kevin kents tasce » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:09 pm

I don't have any insight into the club at all, so only my opinion.

There have been lots of rumours and stories about JD's preseason being very slack and the players not doing much fitness work. Also lots of people coming out of the gym next door to the ground saying that the players didn't seem to do much when they were in there. Look at Logans body this year's, or consider the amount of early red cards and volume of injuries under JD and all the evidence shows that they were not fit.

Evans players were reasonably fit and due to the amount of players we had many of them were regularly rested. We seem to run of of gas regularly under Evans though, Luton at home being a good example. LT seemed a good guy, but I am sure there were rumours of trading finishing really early under Evans

Under Flitcroft we had an excellent pre season and were extremely fit. The players were reported to work very hard in the gym too. That said, we did seem to run out of steam at the end, but we also lost White and Rose to injuries which resulted from awful tackles as opposed to lack of fitness.
Everything Is Borrowed
User avatar
kevin kents tasce
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:04 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:15 pm

Vice President wrote:Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...


Flitcroft complained that the players were not fit enough when he took over from Evans

https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=9258
"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
Martin Shaw
Site Admin
 
Posts: 19661
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:20 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Fitness

Postby Stags 2002 » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:04 pm

Daryl Taylor under Murray - players where unfit

Lee Taylor under Evans - players where fit but with a different type of fitness that Flitcroft wanted.

Flitcroft wanted a different type fitness from Evans. Evans sessions where short and intense similar to a game Flitcroft wanted more of an endurance fitness so in his eyes they where unfit because they couldn't train all day.

Lee Taylor then left summer 2018.

Daryl Taylor reinstated.

Flitcroft - players where fit certainly upto Christmas. However did drop in fitness contribute to our demise?

Daryl Taylor sacked summer 2019 along with Flitcroft - players unfit?
Daryl Taylor reinstated by Dempster.
Daryl Taylor sacked by Dempster September? - players unfit

Coughlan has then come in and stated the players are unfit...

Who knows.........surely as a professional players must take some responsibility. I.e like Khan in the summer.

Either way any future manager should stay clear of Daryl Taylor.
Stags 2002
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2369
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:41 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:52 pm

Why do we have all these backroom staff if we cannot work out whether players are fit enough or not? It's pretty easy with modern technology to monitor, test and keep records.
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6608
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby S7AGS » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:03 pm

I remember going to a couple of the preseason games before this season and thinking we lacked fitness...the game at Alfreton which was after Portugal was a worry as it looked to me at the time that Alfreton had superior fitness....
S7AGS
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:51 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Vice President » Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:59 pm

Players must take responsibility for their own fitness. They are professional athletes. They should be well aware of whether they are fit enough to play football for 90 mins! ... and if they feel that they aren't fit enough, then they should be doing something about it in all the spare time that they have.
The manager is to blame - but equally so too is each individual player that isn't fit enough.
Vice President
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Vice President » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:05 pm

Vice President wrote:Players must take responsibility for their own fitness. They are professional athletes. They should be well aware of whether they are fit enough to play football for 90 mins! ... and if they feel that they aren't fit enough, then they should be doing something about it in all the spare time that they have.
The manager is to blame - but equally so too is each individual player that isn't fit enough.


Back in the day, I knew a couple of Forest players who were also England internationals. Brian Clough didn't get involved with fitness training - he left that up to the individual players to do in their own time - if they weren't fit enough they wouldn't play. Clough's time spent with the players was solely on tactics. I know that times have changed and we now have an abundance of medical science & technology ... but I still think that the players (who are paid to be professional athletes) should take some responsibility for their own fitness.
Vice President
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Jamie » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:23 pm

The manager and staff should set the level of fitness expected. Measurable by whatever tests. The players should then ensure they are doing enough work outside of training sessions to achieve that. Anyone who doesnt make the grade doesnt play and eventually doesnt get paid. Simple.

If you dont like it and wont work hard to be at your best for this club. We dont want you.
Jamie
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5048
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:42 am
Location: Mansfield

Re: Fitness

Postby Bridgford Stag » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:30 pm

Yep....players have to take responsibility ultimately.

They may think that the management expect certain standards but as professionals they do need to step up to their own self imposed standards.
Bridgford Stag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 930
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:03 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Vice President » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:34 pm

Jamie wrote:The manager and staff should set the level of fitness expected. Measurable by whatever tests. The players should then ensure they are doing enough work outside of training sessions to achieve that. Anyone who doesnt make the grade doesnt play and eventually doesnt get paid. Simple.

If you dont like it and wont work hard to be at your best for this club. We dont want you.


Indeed. It would appear that the previous manager didn't have the experience or the aptitude to set the level of fitness expected.
Vice President
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:59 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Uncle » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:58 pm

Stags 2002 wrote:Daryl Taylor under Murray - players where unfit

Lee Taylor under Evans - players where fit but with a different type of fitness that Flitcroft wanted.

Flitcroft wanted a different type fitness from Evans. Evans sessions where short and intense similar to a game Flitcroft wanted more of an endurance fitness so in his eyes they where unfit because they couldn't train all day.

Lee Taylor then left summer 2018.

Daryl Taylor reinstated.

Flitcroft - players where fit certainly upto Christmas. However did drop in fitness contribute to our demise?

Daryl Taylor sacked summer 2019 along with Flitcroft - players unfit?
Daryl Taylor reinstated by Dempster.
Daryl Taylor sacked by Dempster September? - players unfit


Either way any future manager should stay clear of Daryl Taylor.

Murray and JD both promoted from within. Maybe the fitness coaches filed their reports to all four managers. Evans being Evans and DF due to his man management brilliance managed to get through to the players. AM, who originally allegedly tried to organise a mutiny against Coxy before trying to manage the same players he allegedly talked into committing professional treason and JD, who had no management nous at all were incapable of getting the message across. I don't think the blame lies with the fitness coaches. They can only practice what they're instructed by the manager and if the players didn't buy into it, I suspect AM & JD were too lame to bare their teeth.
Uncle
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:09 am

Re: Fitness

Postby The One » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:25 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Vice President wrote:Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...


Flitcroft complained that the players were not fit enough when he took over from Evans

https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=9258


You see that Rob ? You wrong again.
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 11253
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby Uncle » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:32 pm

The One wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Vice President wrote:Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...


Flitcroft complained that the players were not fit enough when he took over from Evans

https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=9258


You see that Rob ? You wrong again.

Do you have no constructive input other than to try an pick fights? Unless I missed it, Rob hasn't posted anything on this thread. What's he wrong about?
Uncle
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:09 am

Re: Fitness

Postby kevin kents tasce » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:10 am

I agree that the player have to take some responsibility for keeping fit, but there is a difference between being fit and being match fit.

Match fitness comes from football specific work and playing in games which of sufficient levels of quality and intensity - hence needing proper friendlies. Match fitness also includes mental sharpness imo.

Gary Neville tells a really good story about Ferguson bringing in a vision specialist to improve Man United players peripheral vision in the 90's and then using that information for kit design too (cue a few quips about that grey kit!)
Everything Is Borrowed
User avatar
kevin kents tasce
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 673
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:04 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:33 am

The One wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Vice President wrote:Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...


Flitcroft complained that the players were not fit enough when he took over from Evans

https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=9258


You see that Rob ? You wrong again.


Surely not :lol:
MTFCMusings
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6111
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:16 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:30 am

MTFCMusings wrote:
The One wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Vice President wrote:Fitness (or lack of) is being cited as the main reason for our current predicament - so I thought that the subject deserves it's own thread.
Can anyone explain precisely why our fitness levels were OK under Steve Evans & DF, yet so poor under JD?
Any information (technical or otherwise) would be very much appreciated ...


Flitcroft complained that the players were not fit enough when he took over from Evans

https://stagsnet.net/news/newsdetails.php?newsid=9258


You see that Rob ? You wrong again.


Surely not :lol:


Rob knows his place: In the wrong.
Edders
User avatar
EdwinstoweStag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 8276
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:24 pm
Location: Edwinstowe

Re: Fitness

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:45 am

The first thing any new manager points to when coming in to a team mid season is fitness, it buys them a bit of time to get things going.

I wouldn’t say Evans side was unfit, not the perfect indicator I know, but we scored plenty of late winners when he was here which says something.

Flitcrofts side were fine mostly in terms of fitness also. This year though I think Coughlan is justified in saying this. We have looked lethargic since the opening weeks.
BH_Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:21 am

Re: Fitness

Postby Spiritater » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:05 am

Under DF the plyers were required to come and do a sesh once a week close season for the 7-8 weeks prior to Portugal, unless they were on holiday etc. All those still on contract.
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
Spiritater
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 20803
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:18 pm
Location: Somewhere fluffy.

Re: Fitness

Postby katyk0 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:40 am

perhaps if their phones were took off them in the gym it might help, 2 mins on the rowing machine 10 mins on the phone, several people have said they are bone idle in there.
katyk0
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:07 am

Re: Fitness

Postby The One » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:21 pm

BH_Stag wrote:The first thing any new manager points to when coming in to a team mid season is fitness, it buys them a bit of time to get things going.

I wouldn’t say Evans side was unfit, not the perfect indicator I know, but we scored plenty of late winners when he was here which says something.

Flitcrofts side were fine mostly in terms of fitness also. This year though I think Coughlan is justified in saying this. We have looked lethargic since the opening weeks.


Portugal was a waste of time.
The One
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 11253
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby cassellswasmagic » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:35 pm

katyk0 wrote:perhaps if their phones were took off them in the gym it might help, 2 mins on the rowing machine 10 mins on the phone, several people have said they are bone idle in there.

Bone idle on the pitch too!!!
cassellswasmagic
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3305
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 3:12 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby James » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:55 pm

The One wrote:
BH_Stag wrote:The first thing any new manager points to when coming in to a team mid season is fitness, it buys them a bit of time to get things going.

I wouldn’t say Evans side was unfit, not the perfect indicator I know, but we scored plenty of late winners when he was here which says something.

Flitcrofts side were fine mostly in terms of fitness also. This year though I think Coughlan is justified in saying this. We have looked lethargic since the opening weeks.


Portugal was a waste of time.


It wasn't the year before under Flitcroft. Under the correct management, a warm weather training camp can be perfect for fitness and squad integration.
James
Assistant Manager
Assistant Manager
 
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:23 pm

Re: Fitness

Postby yorkshire stag » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:41 pm

Surely our disastrous form this season is not just down to the fact that the players are not match /general fit ?
Our time will come
User avatar
yorkshire stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 9728
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:35 pm

Next

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: staggered218 and 93 guests