{ the forum }
 
An independent supporters' website dedicated to Mansfield Town FC

The enthusiasm-o-meter

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby pemill » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:59 am

Is Dempster being very clever with the pre-season, simply using it to get game time for all the players, not showing his hand to the rest of L2. As yet he hasn't played, what I would call the strongest starting X1 together.

I was fairly non plus with what I saw at Alfreton but was particularly happy with Khan & Benning when they came on. Similarly so in the first half against Blackburn, although I have to say they were a class apart and gave us a lesson in one touch football, whilst we didn't get many opportunities I liked the way Cook won headers & held the ball up, Bish looked fit and chased everything as he does and Logan made some good saves to keep us in it. 2nd half was better, Khan impressed again as did Danny, of course it was great to see Hayden back.

Right now, I'm not sure what style we will play, if we keep it under wraps until 3/8 then that's probably a master stroke.,
pemill
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 979
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:32 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:36 am

pemill wrote:Is Dempster being very clever with the pre-season, simply using it to get game time for all the players, not showing his hand to the rest of L2. As yet he hasn't played, what I would call the strongest starting X1 together.

I was fairly non plus with what I saw at Alfreton but was particularly happy with Khan & Benning when they came on. Similarly so in the first half against Blackburn, although I have to say they were a class apart and gave us a lesson in one touch football, whilst we didn't get many opportunities I liked the way Cook won headers & held the ball up, Bish looked fit and chased everything as he does and Logan made some good saves to keep us in it. 2nd half was better, Khan impressed again as did Danny, of course it was great to see Hayden back.

Right now, I'm not sure what style we will play, if we keep it under wraps until 3/8 then that's probably a master stroke.,


I think you are over thinking things. :lol:
Woodclanger 1
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6235
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby oldweststander » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:54 am

No real concerns exept we are perhaps a full back and wide midfielder short.
oldweststander
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3085
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:17 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby adamstag » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:58 am

We’ve made some encouraging signings.

As ever the break has been a welcome one, admirably filled by the cricket and women’s World Cup which have been enjoyable.

Last season finished unfortunately the way many predicted despite a good 4 or 5 chances to get over the line, I still can’t believe how we messed that up in fairness. Would flitcroft have choked again this season? Nobody will ever know...

The forward line looks promising and so far we’ve kept the spine of what made us such a good side last term. I expect the playoffs at least
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby awalkinthepark » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:40 am

The season starts 2 - 3 weeks too early in my opinion.
awalkinthepark
Youth Team
Youth Team
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby spanishstag » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:15 pm

I was one of flitcrofts vociferous supporters ,but i understand why we parted company , i will never criticise him and if he had stayed on i would still support him ,but i can also appreciate the appointment of JD and i dont think his inexperience will hold him back ,im expecting a top 3 place ,but i have been for the last two seasons ,and they never happened but we have made a few really good signings so onwards and upwards
spanishstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1792
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:44 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:06 am

Like most, I'm 50/50.

I think we have the making of a good team that should be challenging.

As much as I want Dempster to succeed, being a novice manager at this level anything could happen.

He certainly has the tools to do his job; players, staff, facilities.

While JD doesn't have any excuses, he is inexperienced and the management want promotion. He won't get loads of time, no one does these days. He needs to hit the ground running, and that is hard to do.

All we can do is turn up in our numbers and support.

One Team, One Dream.
You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
User avatar
arsene wengers coat
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 4026
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:03 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Marky Mark » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:35 am

JR has expected promotion for the last 2 seasons, the fact we are still in League 2 is the reason why DF is no longer with us. He's said that we are a League One side in waiting infrastructure-wise so he'll expect it even more this season. Why would he accept us doing no better with a different manager and ultimately the same squad? That's the reason he's changed the manager. In my opinion not being promoted will simply not suffice for him, the only question is what happens if we aren't.
Controlled & Clueless. If this is the big life, well I ain't looking to live it.
@watski
User avatar
Marky Mark
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3934
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:48 pm
Location: New Brighton

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Conker » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:57 pm

Interestedly rival L2 fans think we will be competing at the top despite the rookie manager, much more optimistic than most posting on here.

There is a very real threat Dempster might be absolutely useless as a manager, but equally he could be a mastermind. The only thing that held us back last season was a inadequate manager, the squad is absolutely good enough and the only reason we won’t go up again is if Dempster, being a rookie cannot manage these players.

I’m fully behind him though, and I reckon a slowish start is on the cards purely from a gut feeling.
Conker
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2771
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:17 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby adamstag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:18 pm

As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:24 pm

I can't believe Salford are still favourites. The rumoured cash splashing hasn't happened, there squad is not overly impressive on paper, especially given they didn't even win the National League. No way I would be touching them at 7/1.
MTFCMusings
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5413
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:16 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:38 pm

I see Salford are trying to sign Eoin Doyle
Tippy Tappy Football
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6156
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:48 pm

adamstag wrote:As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved


I think it was Exeter a few seasons ago that were bottom after 15 games and ended up in the play offs
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:48 pm

adamstag wrote:As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved


Somebody else posted something similar, but could someone explain on what basis this makes sense.

Promotion requires roughly 80 points in a season. It doesn't matter when you get the points. If you win the first 28 games and lose the last 18 then you probably go up. If, like Paul Cox, you take 30 posts or so from the first 20 games (I can't remember exactly) and then win 19 on the bounce then you go up too.

Slow finishes are no worse than slow starts over the same number of games - it's 3 points for every win.

I don't like it when managers fall for this because it means they aren't hungry for points early in the season, because they think they can always make it up later. But a win on the first day of the season is worth the same three points as it is on the last, it's just that those 3 points seem more important at the time because you have to win then to get promoted.

We should be going for maximum points from the off, and then for every single game, then if you've amassed enough points (like Luton last season in League 1) you can more easily afford to have a relatively poor finish.
NorthLondonStag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:57 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
adamstag wrote:As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved


I think it was Exeter a few seasons ago that were bottom after 15 games and ended up in the play offs


A painful one close to hime:

First half of season - 43 points
Second half of season - 36 points

MK Dons last year. If they hadn't had such a good first half they wouldn't have got promoted.

There will always be examples of teams getting better (or worse) over a season but it's just overall points that count.
NorthLondonStag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:10 pm

FarnieStag wrote:I'm enthusiastic for the season ahead.
The stubborn Flitcroft fans are already sharpening their "told you so" knives. Seems incredibly early to gloat.
I'm well and truly in the Flitcroft doubters camp (along with John Radford!), and happy to declare before a ball has even been kicked that we'll have a much better season with Dempster than the last two under Flitcroft. Even though JD has zero experience he'll still do better that Flitcroft (let's face it, we'd have won more points at the end of the past few seasons with Homer Simpson in charge).


Save us a drag on that cheeky Cuban you're smoking, Farnie ;)

I really hope you're right bud, but it's a strong claim to say we'll do better than with DF. I get the feeling you really couldn't stand the guy, as much as a champion for Dempsey perhaps?
If i look in pain it's because i'm thinking
User avatar
MutinyOnTheCounty
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:23 pm

21 December Championship table

1 Leeds United
2 Norwich City
3 West Bromwich Albion
4 Sheffield United


End of season:

1 Norwich City
2 Sheffield United
3 Leeds United
4 West Bromwich Albion

Same 4 occupy the top 4 spots in December and end of year.

League 1:

December:

1 Portsmouth
2 Luton Town
3 Sunderland
4 Charlton Athletic
5 Barnsley
6 Peterborough United
7 Doncaster Rovers

End of season:

1 Luton Town
2 Barnsley
3 Charlton Athletic
4 Portsmouth
5 Sunderland
6 Doncaster Rovers
7 Peterborough United

Same 7 teams are in the top 7 in December and the end of the year.

League 2:

December:

1 Lincoln City
2 Milton Keynes Dons
3 Colchester United
4 Bury
5 Mansfield Town


End of season:

1 Lincoln City
2 Bury
3 Milton Keynes Dons
4 Mansfield Town
5 Forest Green Rovers

4 out of the top 5 teams are the same. The 5th place team came from 9th place.

I've been a bit selective to make the point but to be at or near the top of the table at the end of the season you're very likely to have to need to have been there at the end of December. I accept the places might have changed but the point is that relying on a late run from mid-table doesn't seem to have worked for anyone in all three EFL competitions last year.

And importantly every team occupying an auto promotion spot was 5th or higher on 21 December.

I appreciate that's a very long post but I really don't like this idea of a slow start and we'll pull it round second half.
NorthLondonStag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:24 pm

Chrisuknottm wrote:Totally underwhelmed and my view is that JD will only have until Christmas and if we are in the bottom 6 by then he will be gone. JR/CR will not sit by and watch us go the way of Notts County. I have my doubts that a rookie, untried manager promoted from managing the kids will be able to motivate the first team and take them with him.


If that happens then it'll be our 4th managerial appointment in just over 3 years. That sounds VERY Notts County to me bud.

No disrespect to JD, but I'm puzzled by Jr's strategy on this. I suspect Dempsey will be given more time and patience to imprint his brand of football, unless of course it all goes horribly wrong and Jr's hand is forced.

I think we'll do OK, not relegation, but not chasing down the leaders either
If i look in pain it's because i'm thinking
User avatar
MutinyOnTheCounty
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:33 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Jimstag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:38 pm

I'm looking forward to next season. Preseason is always difficult to judge, it only really matters how you play when there are points to play for and as many say it doesn't really matter how or when they come.
I think Dempster is being clever, despite switching the starting team he's playing certain players together consistently and building an understanding without giving away his main team. I think we'll have to play it soon to check things are going to plan ahead of the big day.
I'm expecting us to be around the top 7 this year, we've kept the bulk of the players that got us close last year and added Maynard and Cook for the goals we lost when Walker did and provide a player able to hold the ball at that end of the pitch. I also like that we've played a couple of systems and seem to have some tough decisions on which players make the first 11, we'll see if Dempster is tactically savvy enough to make the most of it.
So I've gone from meh a couple of weeks ago to wanting the season to get started.
Jimstag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:09 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:42 pm

MutinyOnTheCounty wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:Totally underwhelmed and my view is that JD will only have until Christmas and if we are in the bottom 6 by then he will be gone. JR/CR will not sit by and watch us go the way of Notts County. I have my doubts that a rookie, untried manager promoted from managing the kids will be able to motivate the first team and take them with him.


If that happens then it'll be our 4th managerial appointment in just over 3 years. That sounds VERY Notts County to me bud.

No disrespect to JD, but I'm puzzled by Jr's strategy on this. I suspect Dempsey will be given more time and patience to imprint his brand of football, unless of course it all goes horribly wrong and Jr's hand is forced.

I think we'll do OK, not relegation, but not chasing down the leaders either


Are you really a Stags fan? How many more posts before you know our managers name?
Woodclanger 1
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6235
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:48 pm

Jimstag wrote:I'm looking forward to next season. Preseason is always difficult to judge, it only really matters how you play when there are points to play for and as many say it doesn't really matter how or when they come.
I think Dempster is being clever, despite switching the starting team he's playing certain players together consistently and building an understanding without giving away his main team. I think we'll have to play it soon to check things are going to plan ahead of the big day.
I'm expecting us to be around the top 7 this year, we've kept the bulk of the players that got us close last year and added Maynard and Cook for the goals we lost when Walker did and provide a player able to hold the ball at that end of the pitch. I also like that we've played a couple of systems and seem to have some tough decisions on which players make the first 11, we'll see if Dempster is tactically savvy enough to make the most of it.
So I've gone from meh a couple of weeks ago to wanting the season to get started.


I'm looking forward to it too. I think we will do well. This will probably start a torrent of abuse but I think Rose could really come good this year. He was unsettled by all the talk about moving, he had a very bad injury which must have affected him psychologically as well as physically, and he looks fit and ready for it. I think he could be the difference.
NorthLondonStag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby adamstag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:35 pm

NorthLondonStag wrote:
adamstag wrote:As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved


Somebody else posted something similar, but could someone explain on what basis this makes sense.

Promotion requires roughly 80 points in a season. It doesn't matter when you get the points. If you win the first 28 games and lose the last 18 then you probably go up. If, like Paul Cox, you take 30 posts or so from the first 20 games (I can't remember exactly) and then win 19 on the bounce then you go up too.

Slow finishes are no worse than slow starts over the same number of games - it's 3 points for every win.

I don't like it when managers fall for this because it means they aren't hungry for points early in the season, because they think they can always make it up later. But a win on the first day of the season is worth the same three points as it is on the last, it's just that those 3 points seem more important at the time because you have to win then to get promoted.

We should be going for maximum points from the off, and then for every single game, then if you've amassed enough points (like Luton last season in League 1) you can more easily afford to have a relatively poor finish.


The problem being is whereas as you point out it doesn’t matter how you get the points you need you get them. The problem being is that you fall out of form like we did when it mattered - you’re buggered.

Ultimately we should be in league 1 right now. How he achieved that raspberry up at the end was a raspberry up
adamstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7354
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:20 am

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:39 pm

adamstag wrote:
NorthLondonStag wrote:
adamstag wrote:As we’ve found out in both seasons under flitcroft it’s the slow finish you don’t want! Slow starts can be turned around as Paul cox proved


Somebody else posted something similar, but could someone explain on what basis this makes sense.

Promotion requires roughly 80 points in a season. It doesn't matter when you get the points. If you win the first 28 games and lose the last 18 then you probably go up. If, like Paul Cox, you take 30 posts or so from the first 20 games (I can't remember exactly) and then win 19 on the bounce then you go up too.

Slow finishes are no worse than slow starts over the same number of games - it's 3 points for every win.

I don't like it when managers fall for this because it means they aren't hungry for points early in the season, because they think they can always make it up later. But a win on the first day of the season is worth the same three points as it is on the last, it's just that those 3 points seem more important at the time because you have to win then to get promoted.

We should be going for maximum points from the off, and then for every single game, then if you've amassed enough points (like Luton last season in League 1) you can more easily afford to have a relatively poor finish.



Correct. But if you don't have a decent start then the finish is irrelevant. That's my point. Yes he did mess it up. Very badly!

The problem being is whereas as you point out it doesn’t matter how you get the points you need you get them. The problem being is that you fall out of form like we did when it mattered - you’re buggered.

Ultimately we should be in league 1 right now. How he achieved that raspberry up at the end was a raspberry up
NorthLondonStag
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:46 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby one f in mansfield » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:47 pm

One of Murray’s first games as a manager was Bury away . They gave us a lesson in football and in his post match interview Murray said he was not surprised because they were 18 months in front of us . I reckon we are now 3 seasons in the making on the field , vastly improved off the field and there has never been so much back room support. Any of the previous 3 managers , and me if I was offered the job , could get the stags promoted this season thanks to the backing of ALL the directors.
Don,t believe everything you read on the internet --William Gladstone 1872
User avatar
one f in mansfield
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1618
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:51 pm

Re: The enthusiasm-o-meter

Postby Amber Andy » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:35 pm

FarnieStag wrote:I'm enthusiastic for the season ahead.
The stubborn Flitcroft fans are already sharpening their "told you so" knives. Seems incredibly early to gloat.
I'm well and truly in the Flitcroft doubters camp (along with John Radford!), and happy to declare before a ball has even been kicked that we'll have a much better season with Dempster than the last two under Flitcroft. Even though JD has zero experience he'll still do better that Flitcroft (let's face it, we'd have won more points at the end of the past few seasons with Homer Simpson in charge).

So on that basis we will be promoted then. I hope your right.

Did I think it was right to sack DF ? No.

Will I gloat if we have a poorer season than we did under DF ? No.

Am I convinced we are better equipped to get promoted this season ? On what I've seen so far, no.
Amber Andy
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5944
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:38 am

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PRL13 and 10 guests