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The Flitcroft doubters

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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby bigalstag » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:55 pm

Biggest problem last season, was the lack of goals from anybody, other than Tyler Walker. I shudder to think what sort of predicament we will be in, if ,Danny Rose is our main striker. All effort and no finish.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:30 pm

Don't forget that Danny Rose was fantastic in 2017-2018 and we thought we were going to lose him at the end of the season but JR and Carolyn made him a decent offer and persuaded him to sign a new contract in the January transfer window. It was a massive step forward for the club as we have never kept our best players when other clubs wanted to sign them. Hopefully JD will get him fit, boost his confidence and get him scoring again.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby bigalstag » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:49 pm

Hope you are right. Don't see us bringing anybody else in.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Stringy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:57 pm

geoffhill wrote:I am interested to find out what the following fans think regarding the boss now with one game to go.
Stringy


Hi Geoff,

At the end of the 2017-18 season I wanted Flitcroft to be sacked. I didn't think to miss out on the play-offs was acceptable given the position Flitcroft inherited. Some say the end of that season was a problem of Evans' making, but I disagree. There was a fundamental weakness in central midfield but I felt Evans left us in a great position with a good team (I disliked Evans also - the cost to quality ratio was too imbalanced). After we missed out on the play-offs, at that point, I felt sacking Flitcroft was justified and he was lucky to get another season.

Moving on to the 2018-19 season, through the first half of the season Flitcroft was proving himself and it was hard to deny that he was doing a good job. I was very happy with the football played. Retrospectively, a mistake was made swapping Elsnik for Grant but what killed us later in the season was not having a proper target man once teams realised to stand on the toes of our three central defenders from goal kicks. Davies' injury was more important than we initially realised. I accept there were other contributing factors, i.e. the injuries to White and Olejnik. I can't deny that the team under Flitcroft played some great football, particularly in the first half of the season and I very much enjoyed the 5 at the back for most of the season. Performances were excellent. It was unlucky to lose so many players but that's football.

Towards the end of the season, and to answer your question, I was hoping that Flitcroft could win that final game, although I was worried about the cracks that had appeared in the team and how we seemed unable to get back into form. After we lost to MK, I was very angry as we had several chances to win promotion and should have done so. I was also very unhappy with some of the tactics in latter games. This was compounded by the fact the exact same thing happened in the 2017-18 season. Again, to sack him after he missed out on promotion and failed in the play-offs was justified. Now the dust has settled, I probably would have been optimistic whether had he been sacked or given next season.

I think this is also a good place to point out there is a tendency from some Stags' supporters to interpret any cynicism/criticism of the club or team as a direct attack on the club/team/owners. Some supporters, no matter what is put in front of them will get behind the team and club. This position is an admirable one, but in my view prevents the club from moving forward. A culture develops which is happy with mediocrity (see the unwillingness of fans to back the sacking of Flitcroft at the end of 2017-18 despite sub-standard performance).

I see myself as in the second camp; I think it's acceptable to be more critical of the team, the club and to demand a high standard, or else we'll spend the rest of our lives as a terrible League Two team. Now, the problem is that fans adopting the first position think that those in the second position are spreading negativity. However, they are just as much fans of the team as those who are clapping everything. I have been accused of spreading negativity when calling for Flitcroft to be sacked, when I said that Evans had left us with a good team and conversely when Evans was in charge and I was complaining at the football and results. To say this shouldn't be taboo. Again, I accept there are some who are just enjoying the moan.

I hope this clarifies my feelings Geoff, have a great summer!!
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:02 pm

Well said Stringy

Nowt wrong my a bit of constructive criticism. It can boil over when it's constant and no discussion / concession of valid counter arguments.

Discussion should be just that
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby arsene wengers coat » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:59 pm

Good post stringy.

I didn't want Flickr to be sacked I think he was so so close to getting it right. I believe A manager needs 4 transfer windows before he can have nowhere to hide. I also often get called negative. It's not negativity though despite being branded as 'negative', it's actually ambition. I strive for more, for better, for improvement, dare I say success. In all aspects of life. If we win 4.1, I question why it wasn't 4.0. I can't help it.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby yorkshire stag » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:31 pm

he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:11 pm

Excellent post Stringy. We need more posters on this forum who are prepared to give their opinions and the reasons why they have formed those opinions. It makes the forum worth reading.

I keep saying it but it does not matter if fans disagree. Every fan has a right to their opinion and they should not be scared to give it. That's the whole point of a forum. It just gets boring when fans start abusing each other especially if one of them has never given an opinion or expressed any views on the subject matter. It just puts off other fans from posting on here.

Keep posting.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby adamstag » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:44 am

yorkshire stag wrote:he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours


Pretty much spot on.

After achieving the almost impossible of sending us out of the playoffs in 10/12 games last season he achieved another remarkable record of somehow finishing in the playoffs when it was also virtually impossible.

The lad was given a massive war chest and failed whenever it mattered, nice lad, he obviously cared, but failed. Wish him all the best in somewhere more appropriate for a man of his abilities - a conference club or a coach somewhere.

We needed to move on, it is what it is
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:29 pm

Stringy wrote:
geoffhill wrote:I am interested to find out what the following fans think regarding the boss now with one game to go.
Stringy


Hi Geoff,

At the end of the 2017-18 season I wanted Flitcroft to be sacked. I didn't think to miss out on the play-offs was acceptable given the position Flitcroft inherited. Some say the end of that season was a problem of Evans' making, but I disagree. There was a fundamental weakness in central midfield but I felt Evans left us in a great position with a good team (I disliked Evans also - the cost to quality ratio was too imbalanced). After we missed out on the play-offs, at that point, I felt sacking Flitcroft was justified and he was lucky to get another season.

Moving on to the 2018-19 season, through the first half of the season Flitcroft was proving himself and it was hard to deny that he was doing a good job. I was very happy with the football played. Retrospectively, a mistake was made swapping Elsnik for Grant but what killed us later in the season was not having a proper target man once teams realised to stand on the toes of our three central defenders from goal kicks. Davies' injury was more important than we initially realised. I accept there were other contributing factors, i.e. the injuries to White and Olejnik. I can't deny that the team under Flitcroft played some great football, particularly in the first half of the season and I very much enjoyed the 5 at the back for most of the season. Performances were excellent. It was unlucky to lose so many players but that's football.

Towards the end of the season, and to answer your question, I was hoping that Flitcroft could win that final game, although I was worried about the cracks that had appeared in the team and how we seemed unable to get back into form. After we lost to MK, I was very angry as we had several chances to win promotion and should have done so. I was also very unhappy with some of the tactics in latter games. This was compounded by the fact the exact same thing happened in the 2017-18 season. Again, to sack him after he missed out on promotion and failed in the play-offs was justified. Now the dust has settled, I probably would have been optimistic whether had he been sacked or given next season.

I think this is also a good place to point out there is a tendency from some Stags' supporters to interpret any cynicism/criticism of the club or team as a direct attack on the club/team/owners. Some supporters, no matter what is put in front of them will get behind the team and club. This position is an admirable one, but in my view prevents the club from moving forward. A culture develops which is happy with mediocrity (see the unwillingness of fans to back the sacking of Flitcroft at the end of 2017-18 despite sub-standard performance).

I see myself as in the second camp; I think it's acceptable to be more critical of the team, the club and to demand a high standard, or else we'll spend the rest of our lives as a terrible League Two team. Now, the problem is that fans adopting the first position think that those in the second position are spreading negativity. However, they are just as much fans of the team as those who are clapping everything. I have been accused of spreading negativity when calling for Flitcroft to be sacked, when I said that Evans had left us with a good team and conversely when Evans was in charge and I was complaining at the football and results. To say this shouldn't be taboo. Again, I accept there are some who are just enjoying the moan.

I hope this clarifies my feelings Geoff, have a great summer!!


WHAT A FANTASTIC POST!!!
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:06 pm

adamstag wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours


Pretty much spot on.

After achieving the almost impossible of sending us out of the playoffs in 10/12 games last season he achieved another remarkable record of somehow finishing in the playoffs when it was also virtually impossible.

The lad was given a massive war chest and failed whenever it mattered, nice lad, he obviously cared, but failed. Wish him all the best in somewhere more appropriate for a man of his abilities - a conference club or a coach somewhere.

We needed to move on, it is what it is


I think you might end up eating those words, bud ;)

Whatever the reasons we move on, and give our backing to JD. I have no reason to doubt Dempsey, but have a feeling there will be lower expectations this year. And again, no disrespect to him, but i think signing new players might be slower going while he establishes himself in the footballing transfer market. It's only an opinion, though i fully expect a cigarette & blindfold to be offered at the very least from anyone responding! :lol:
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:30 pm

MutinyOnTheCounty wrote:
adamstag wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours


Pretty much spot on.

After achieving the almost impossible of sending us out of the playoffs in 10/12 games last season he achieved another remarkable record of somehow finishing in the playoffs when it was also virtually impossible.

The lad was given a massive war chest and failed whenever it mattered, nice lad, he obviously cared, but failed. Wish him all the best in somewhere more appropriate for a man of his abilities - a conference club or a coach somewhere.

We needed to move on, it is what it is


I think you might end up eating those words, bud ;)

Whatever the reasons we move on, and give our backing to JD. I have no reason to doubt Dempsey, but have a feeling there will be lower expectations this year. And again, no disrespect to him, but i think signing new players might be slower going while he establishes himself in the footballing transfer market. It's only an opinion, though i fully expect a cigarette & blindfold to be offered at the very least from anyone responding! :lol:
I agree it's back to trying an unknown from within the club, who will need time to learn what league management is about. The same strategy as with Adam Murray.

Supporters need to lower their expectations.

We may drop lucky and John Dempster may find the magic formula to turn a good successful league 2 squad into a league 2 promotion squad.

David Flitcroft will no doubt be a successful manager elsewhere, but it is time to get behind the current manager.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:39 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
MutinyOnTheCounty wrote:
adamstag wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours


Pretty much spot on.

After achieving the almost impossible of sending us out of the playoffs in 10/12 games last season he achieved another remarkable record of somehow finishing in the playoffs when it was also virtually impossible.

The lad was given a massive war chest and failed whenever it mattered, nice lad, he obviously cared, but failed. Wish him all the best in somewhere more appropriate for a man of his abilities - a conference club or a coach somewhere.

We needed to move on, it is what it is


I think you might end up eating those words, bud ;)

Whatever the reasons we move on, and give our backing to JD. I have no reason to doubt Dempsey, but have a feeling there will be lower expectations this year. And again, no disrespect to him, but i think signing new players might be slower going while he establishes himself in the footballing transfer market. It's only an opinion, though i fully expect a cigarette & blindfold to be offered at the very least from anyone responding! :lol:
I agree it's back to trying an unknown from within the club, who will need time to learn what league management is about. The same strategy as with Adam Murray.

Supporters need to lower their expectations.

We may drop lucky and John Dempster may find the magic formula to turn a good successful league 2 squad into a league 2 promotion squad.

David Flitcroft will no doubt be a successful manager elsewhere, but it is time to get behind the current manager.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:44 pm

Dan wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
MutinyOnTheCounty wrote:
adamstag wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:he failed in the Chairman’s objective set, it was always going to happen, he was backed from start to finish, i mean over night stops at every away game !

he tried, he failed we move on

Good luck to JD the stage is yours


Pretty much spot on.

After achieving the almost impossible of sending us out of the playoffs in 10/12 games last season he achieved another remarkable record of somehow finishing in the playoffs when it was also virtually impossible.

The lad was given a massive war chest and failed whenever it mattered, nice lad, he obviously cared, but failed. Wish him all the best in somewhere more appropriate for a man of his abilities - a conference club or a coach somewhere.

We needed to move on, it is what it is


I think you might end up eating those words, bud ;)

Whatever the reasons we move on, and give our backing to JD. I have no reason to doubt Dempsey, but have a feeling there will be lower expectations this year. And again, no disrespect to him, but i think signing new players might be slower going while he establishes himself in the footballing transfer market. It's only an opinion, though i fully expect a cigarette & blindfold to be offered at the very least from anyone responding! :lol:
I agree it's back to trying an unknown from within the club, who will need time to learn what league management is about. The same strategy as with Adam Murray.

Supporters need to lower their expectations.

We may drop lucky and John Dempster may find the magic formula to turn a good successful league 2 squad into a league 2 promotion squad.

David Flitcroft will no doubt be a successful manager elsewhere, but it is time to get behind the current manager.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Really pleased I made you laugh Dan.

Watch this space ;)
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby cassellswasmagic » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:41 pm

He was successful once at Bury I suppose.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:23 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.

No suppose about it.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:17 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.

No suppose about it.


Personally I'd have given Davey boy another season, but we are where we are. Dempsey gets my full support, and I'll give him time to put his style in place - gradual improvements is the key
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby adamstag » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:01 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.


David Moyes was once successful at Everton - didn't do anything elsewhere.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby cassellswasmagic » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:34 pm

adamstag wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.


David Moyes was once successful at Everton - didn't do anything elsewhere.

He was also more successful at Man Utd than most of the ones that came after too!!!
In fact with a 52.9% win ratio it puts him quite high up. Booted out way too early.
Now as for Flitcroft he did blow it twice so fair enough.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:39 pm

adamstag wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.


David Moyes was once successful at Everton - didn't do anything elsewhere.



Perhaps that just proves that the setup has to be right for them to succeed? If so there's no reason why it couldn't happen again.

Personally, i think he'll take charge of another L2 team and get them up & around the playoffs again
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby oldweststander » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Didn't call for DF to leave myself but he has so let's all get behind Johnny D.

He has earned this opportunity, so give him your support.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby WVStag » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:57 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:
adamstag wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:He was successful once at Bury I suppose.


David Moyes was once successful at Everton - didn't do anything elsewhere.

He was also more successful at Man Utd than most of the ones that came after too!!!
In fact with a 52.9% win ratio it puts him quite high up. Booted out way too early.

Now as for Flitcroft he did blow it twice so fair enough.


The statement in bold is false because success is relative.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby Dan » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:59 pm

Shouldn't the thread now be changed to 'The Flitcroft proved righters'?! :lol:
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby adamstag » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:16 pm

Dan wrote:Shouldn't the thread now be changed to 'The Flitcroft proved righters'?! :lol:


Given his objective last season DF failed - which is why he was sacked.

He obviously cared and seemed a good man, but the black and white of it was he needed to provide promotion - he had about 4 or 5 chances to grasp it and unfortunately for him and for us all him and his team couldn't do it. (whereas I wasn't his biggest fan, I'd have kept him next season and said so before he was sacked)

I wish him all the best in the future
Last edited by adamstag on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Flitcroft doubters

Postby BigGuy » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Dan wrote:Shouldn't the thread now be changed to 'The Flitcroft proved righters'?! :lol:


Or "we are so happy to be proved right" thread

Seeing as some delighted in us failing away, god help you lot when we finish 12th next season, poor old JD.
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