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Doldrums

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Doldrums

Postby Sneag » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:11 pm

I know these days we live in a attention defecit society where patience is in short supply, but I wonder is some of the irritation fans show when things don't go our way is the shear length of time we've been treading water in this division?

I've been following the club since 1974 and I think 10 years without a promotion is one of the longest runs I can recall, couple that with 3 seasons i the last 6 we've flattered to deceive & fallen away at the death have helped generate a general air of pessimism in the stands. I know ST sales would suggest this isn't the case but from the minute Salford scored their 1st goal yesterday it seemed the fans seemed resigned to defeat.

It's a wierd feeling, ST sales through the roof, brilliant owners, who deserve success, but I dunno the atmosphere just doesn't 'feel' right.

BTW, fave hobby horse, even Salfod's bolt together meccano stands look better than the Bishop St. :D
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Re: Doldrums

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:21 pm

Here’s hoping we don’t fall flat on our faces again. I still think in terms of fitness levels we are on catch up due to the late finish last season……however, Port Vale won didn’t they. Also anything’s better than that eyesore.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby NEStag » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:22 pm

Sneag, you may be onto something there. When we went 2 down at Salford there felt like an air of inevitability of here we go again.
Wasn’t helped yesterday with a lot of people feeling as though the formation/team selection was all wrong from the outset.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Reg Holdsworth » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:45 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:Here’s hoping we don’t fall flat on our faces again. I still think in terms of fitness levels we are on catch up due to the late finish last season……however, Port Vale won didn’t they. Also anything’s better than that eyesore.



Yep …. Vale won, with Aidan Stone, Sir Mal, and Harry Charsley all starting; DJ scored 3 etc ….. I do sometimes wonder what’s going on? :o
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Billy the fish » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:02 pm

NEStag wrote:Sneag, you may be onto something there. When we went 2 down at Salford there felt like an air of inevitability of here we go again.
Wasn’t helped yesterday with a lot of people feeling as though the formation/team selection was all wrong from the outset.


We go more in hope than expectation , many a game last year and the opposition scored 1st you knew it would be a long afternoon or evening. I’d like to see us set up to attack get more pace in the side with a proven goal scorer to compliment Oates…
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Re: Doldrums

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:39 pm

I agree Sneag.

We've been getting promoted since 2016. We don't ever seem to complete the jigsaw regarding the team or squad. There's always a couple of points of failure that holds us back.

My expectations for the season are a little different to my hopes. I'd like to see us kick some flipping arse from game 1 to 46 but for whatever reason we don't.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby adamstag » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:51 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:I agree Sneag.

We've been getting promoted since 2016. We don't ever seem to complete the jigsaw regarding the team or squad. There's always a couple of points of failure that holds us back.

My expectations for the season are a little different to my hopes. I'd like to see us kick some flipping arse from game 1 to 46 but for whatever reason we don't.


Sadly it’s because mansfield are synonymous with failure. we gooseberry up on the big stage everytime.

Start turning up when it matters and we might get somewhere.

Harsh but true
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Re: Doldrums

Postby stuartcoupe » Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:13 pm

I know what you mean. This could be with the benefit of hindsight but during the good times under Billy Dearden there was a real confidence both in the way that the football was played and in the way that this translated itself into the crowd. That feeling has not been there since ......and that was a long time ago now.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby stag324 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:22 pm

stuartcoupe wrote:I know what you mean. This could be with the benefit of hindsight but during the good times under Billy Dearden there was a real confidence both in the way that the football was played and in the way that this translated itself into the crowd. That feeling has not been there since ......and that was a long time ago now.



I disagree about the atmosphere.

Last season was superb for most home and away games.

When we went on our winning run last year we played a high press game which was so exciting to watch, however the changes in January stopped all that.

This season we have made some good additions but they are only good functional players not exciting ones, like for the last 10 years

We need to sign an exciting midfielder who will run at times, a striker who will rattle in 20+ goals and a defender who is in the mould of Greg Fee

We won’t because we are Mansfield
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Re: Doldrums

Postby YellaFella 75 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 4:59 pm

Come on guys we've only played one game! I really enjoyed last season, going to games excited thinking we would win was a great feeling, the atmosphere was as good as I've ever known it and it can be the same this year give them a chance. Oh and BTW I don't remember Greg Fee being a wonderful defender, I know he was a fans favourite but that was because of his goals not his defending.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Sneag » Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:39 pm

YellaFella 75 wrote:Come on guys we've only played one game! I really enjoyed last season, going to games excited thinking we would win was a great feeling, the atmosphere was as good as I've ever known it and it can be the same this year give them a chance. Oh and BTW I don't remember Greg Fee being a wonderful defender, I know he was a fans favourite but that was because of his goals not his defending.


Apart from the popping of the atmosphere bubble of the 1st Salford goal, my OP was more about MTFC as a whole than yesterday's game in particular.

Despite the many positives around the club, I'm not sure if that can be maintained in tandem with long term stagnation in our league position.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby victor A block » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:19 pm

Think I read we are now the longest servers in league 2. Stand to be corrected of course.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby part time pete » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:23 pm

victor A block wrote:Think I read we are now the longest servers in league 2. Stand to be corrected of course.


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Re: Doldrums

Postby ST4GS » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:42 pm

We had a great season last time but look at the away results v top ten. No wins and a few draws.only. Appauling really. Salford should finish top ten so we have continued this trend. We need to arrest this if we want to go one better.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Marky Mark » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:44 pm

I would have said this before the loss to Salford but it definitely feel like we're at a bit of a tipping point this season: we've supposedly been going up for 5 years, we've had 3 different managers who have had good goes at it in this time. Clough is now in his second full season - and whilst I personally cant see that we could attract anyone better, - for all the talk of projects and being a League One club in waiting, something needs to actually move on the pitch this season otherwise the question on his worth rightly becomes louder. Yet another season in League Two and the support starts leaking away and the number of season ticket sales goes backwards. I haven't heard aggressive bickering between fans in a ground for ages, yesterday I heard it twice.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:35 pm

Two polarised ways of looking at this. Either embarrassing and pathetic, or well we're lucky to have a football league club. But there is a middle ground.

I always get called negative by the same old crowd of happy clappers for wanting better and wanting more improvement. For me, I think their acceptance of mediocrity is negative and equally as damaging as those that stamp their feet when things don't go right. It allows complacency. On one hand we're thankful for the likes of Clough, but on the other we have to ask questions about our progression. It's normal scrutiny.

JR has done a lot for us undoubtedly: saving us from abyss, promoted out of non-league, new training facilities, crowds are up, but I also think that by some yardsticks we're exactly where we were 10 years ago and when Adam Murray had a playing budget of 2 packets of watsits and a conker.

In that time Bristol rovers have been been non-league and been promoted from L2 twice. FGR come up and got out this league before we have. Lincoln city, Luton, Cambridge, all were non league after us and now exceed us too.

Just seems there's always an excuse like 'its.a.strong league this year' simply don't wash when we're 6 seasons in to a promotion.

It's surely our turn soon. As fans, we totally deserve it.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Rob » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:36 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:Two polarised ways of looking at this. Either embarrassing and pathetic, or well we're lucky to have a football league club. But there is a middle ground.

I always get called negative by the same old crowd of happy clappers for wanting better and wanting more improvement. For me, I think their acceptance of mediocrity is negative and equally as damaging as those that stamp their feet when things don't go right. It allows complacency. On one hand we're thankful for the likes of Clough, but on the other we have to ask questions about our progression. It's normal scrutiny.

JR has done a lot for us undoubtedly: saving us from abyss, promoted out of non-league, new training facilities, crowds are up, but I also think that by some yardsticks we're exactly where we were 10 years ago and when Adam Murray had a playing budget of 2 packets of watsits and a conker.

In that time Bristol rovers have been been non-league and been promoted from L2 twice. FGR come up and got out this league before we have. Lincoln city, Luton, Cambridge, all were non league after us and now exceed us too.

Just seems there's always an excuse like 'its.a.strong league this year' simply don't wash when we're 6 seasons in to a promotion.

It's surely our turn soon. As fans, we totally deserve it.


You are quite negative to be honest, you give Billy a run for his money :lol:

I think if you want to look at it another way, since we got back into the league Cheaterfield and County have been relegated, Wrexham have been down there god knows how long, Bury went bust, Stockport have only just got back into the league and so on - for every success story you can mention I can counter with one of utter failure. It's like those slagging Clough off after one game, just a couple of months after reaching the play-off final for only the second time in our history, sometimes you just can't get your breath ;)
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Re: Doldrums

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:26 am

Fair enough Rob. I'm not as bad as you might think but hyperbole and exaggeration sometimes get the better of me.

But back to point, it'd be interesting to do a poll and see where fans think we are in relation to our stature, infrastructure and potential: are we punching above our weight, are we about right, or could we do better and must try harder.

Personally, I believe we should be mid table league 1 side, on a par with a club like Oxford United getting around 65 points a season. Am I being naive. Is that just fantasy?
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Re: Doldrums

Postby S7AGS » Mon Aug 01, 2022 8:07 am

arsene wengers coat wrote:Two polarised ways of looking at this. Either embarrassing and pathetic, or well we're lucky to have a football league club. But there is a middle ground.

I always get called negative by the same old crowd of happy clappers for wanting better and wanting more improvement. For me, I think their acceptance of mediocrity is negative and equally as damaging as those that stamp their feet when things don't go right. It allows complacency. On one hand we're thankful for the likes of Clough, but on the other we have to ask questions about our progression. It's normal scrutiny.

JR has done a lot for us undoubtedly: saving us from abyss, promoted out of non-league, new training facilities, crowds are up, but I also think that by some yardsticks we're exactly where we were 10 years ago and when Adam Murray had a playing budget of 2 packets of watsits and a conker.

In that time Bristol rovers have been been non-league and been promoted from L2 twice. FGR come up and got out this league before we have. Lincoln city, Luton, Cambridge, all were non league after us and now exceed us too.

Just seems there's always an excuse like 'its.a.strong league this year' simply don't wash when we're 6 seasons in to a promotion.

It's surely our turn soon. As fans, we totally deserve it.


Totally agree here we’ll summed up, so frustrating to see other teams without much drama get promoted, Lincoln prime example, us gloating when they were in league below, they get promoted, are no better than us in league 2 in the games against them but they then gain promotion to L1 comfortably whilst we just make a right meal of it!

Also sick of hearing our managers seemingly every season start saying ‘Team x, team y are ahead of us, been building etc’ usually referring to sides that have also signed loads but just get on with it lol…

We have consistently had a good squad over last number of years but in loads of examples just don’t utilise to its max potential, it’s like we seem to handicap ourselves to bring in line with other sides on lower budget… can see the same happening again, Akins clearly isn’t better than what’s on the bench, playing players way out of position when most of the subs would walk into most if not all L2 sides in their respective positions. Could go on but we’ve got lapslie and Clarke sat on bench every week… both should be playing way more, especially lapslie, can’t expect him to be up to speed though playing 10 mins a game
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:27 am

arsene wengers coat wrote:Fair enough Rob. I'm not as bad as you might think but hyperbole and exaggeration sometimes get the better of me.

But back to point, it'd be interesting to do a poll and see where fans think we are in relation to our stature, infrastructure and potential: are we punching above our weight, are we about right, or could we do better and must try harder.

Personally, I believe we should be mid table league 1 side, on a par with a club like Oxford United getting around 65 points a season. Am I being naive. Is that just fantasy?


Well in terms of infrastructure I think I've said enough about our 3 sided ground, to me it just portrays a lack of ambition, even though we know that's not true. I think top end League 2/bottom end League 1 is about right - Conference was below and our 1 season in the Championship clearly well above! My main issue with some on this site this weekend is that we've played one game yet the knives are out, I find that a ridiculous over-reaction.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Marky Mark » Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:33 am

The problem with a poll asking fans what they think about where we should be is that it's a poll asking fans where we think we should be - 99% of the stuff on here is unmitigated nonsense as it is, and ultimately a fans view on where we should be isn't important, given that they also know nothing about the running of the club. I dont know what the stats are but we've been in the Championship for one season, a handful of seasons in League One, and have spent the majority of our existence in this league, so on average I'd guess that by being any higher than 10th or 11th we're over achieving our historical position.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby bear 73 » Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:16 am

stag324 wrote:
stuartcoupe wrote:I know what you mean. This could be with the benefit of hindsight but during the good times under Billy Dearden there was a real confidence both in the way that the football was played and in the way that this translated itself into the crowd. That feeling has not been there since ......and that was a long time ago now.



I disagree about the atmosphere.

Last season was superb for most home and away games.

When we went on our winning run last year we played a high press game which was so exciting to watch, however the changes in January stopped all that.

This season we have made some good additions but they are only good functional players not exciting ones, like for the last 10 years

We need to sign an exciting midfielder who will run at times, a striker who will rattle in 20+ goals and a defender who is in the mould of Greg Fee

We won’t because we are Mansfield


After January it is the business end of the season where the pressure is on, ask the clubs who did not make the playoffs
Or missed Automatic promotion,
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Re: Doldrums

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Aug 01, 2022 10:43 am

arsene wengers coat wrote:Fair enough Rob. I'm not as bad as you might think but hyperbole and exaggeration sometimes get the better of me.

But back to point, it'd be interesting to do a poll and see where fans think we are in relation to our stature, infrastructure and potential: are we punching above our weight, are we about right, or could we do better and must try harder.

Personally, I believe we should be mid table league 1 side, on a par with a club like Oxford United getting around 65 points a season. Am I being naive. Is that just fantasy?



I definitely don't think we should be on par with Oxford. We've rarely been a league one team in the 20 odd years I've been coming so I don't get why some think we should be a top end league one team. Of course we all want to be but we have to remember we have been a mid table league two team for most of the club's history.

It is frustrating seeing other teams come and go whilst we seem to be stuck here after the promotion pushes we've had since 2016.

Clough will be the man to do it I hope!!
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:11 am

I would say based on crowds and history we are a top half League 2 side but smaller clubs like Burton, Crawley, Fleetwood (wealthy owner), Accrington, Cheltenham, Morecambe, Forest Green Rovers etc have made it to League 1. I'd be happy to get promoted to League 1 and stay up for ten seasons or even five seasons like Ian Greaves/George Foster managed from 1986-1991.

Division 3 North and South were merged after the 1958 season. Since then Mansfield Town have played in:

The Championship - 1 Season
League 1 - 22 Seasons
League 2 - 37 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

The older fans were spoilt from 1963-1964 to 1979-1980 when we had one season in The Championship (Division 2), 12 seasons in League 1 (Division 3) and only 3 seasons in League 2 (Division 4) and one of those seasons was arguably our best season of all time.


From 1980-1981:
League 1 - 7 Seasons
League 2 - 31 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

From 2003-2004:
League 1 - 0 Seasons
League 2 - 15 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... C._seasons
Last edited by Tippy Tappy Football on Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doldrums

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Aug 01, 2022 3:15 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I would say based on crowds and history we are a top half League 2 side but smaller clubs like Burton, Crawley, Fleetwood (wealthy owner), Accrington, Cheltenham, Morecambe, Forest Green Rovers etc have made it to League 1. I'd be happy to get promoted to League 1 and stay up for ten seasons or even five seasons like Ian Greaves/George Foster managed from 1986-1991.

Division 3 North and South were merged after the 1958 season. Since then Mansfield Town have played in:

The Championship - 1 Season
League 1 - 22 Seasons
League 2 - 37 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

The older fans were spoilt from 1963-1964 to 1979-1980 when we had one season in The Championship (Division 2), 15 seasons in League 1 (Division 3) and only 3 seasons in League 2 (Division 4) and one of those seasons was arguably our best season of all time.


From 1980-1981:
League 1 - 7 Seasons
League 2 - 31 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

From 2003-2004:
League 1 - 0 Seasons
League 2 - 15 Seasons
National League - 5 Seasons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... C._seasons


Interesting stats Tippy

Being one of those older fans who started going around the time we made the equivalent of league 1 and stayed there, I always think that is our rightful level. We were also a very effective cup side during that period (with the exception of Tow Law and Matlock) and I remember some excellent games in various competitions.

In my opinion, there should be nothing stopping us achieving those levels in the modern period apart from our mindset. Our owner puts enough money in and the fans get behind the team. We should be achieving.
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