The Sack Race

[Sneag]

I can’t understand why JR would sack Clough at the moment.
The facts are as follows:
- we seem to be being run on a more sustainable basis (we don’t know but presumably lower cash requirements from JR).
- we have a record number of season ticket holders by some distance.
- we are seventh in the League at half way through the season. Playoffs easily achievable and auto promotion also a possibility.
- any manager coming in will want a new team and a bunch of new signings (equals more money from JR).
- with the benefit of hindsight sacking DF might not have been the best idea and we know that CR did not support it and has said so.
- two of the last three manager appointments were a disaster. (In fairness some decent signings by GC at least).

We can all see areas for improvement (definitely defenders and perhaps a younger squad) but calling for Clough to be sacked in light of the above seems an over reaction to me.

I don't think sacking Clough 8s on JRs radar at all.

But if we don't make the top 7 this year, he won't be offered a new contract (mutual agreement & all that) and it will be because the progress of the previous 1 & a half seasons & extra revenue/support that generated will have been squandered.

Another failed play off campaign & I think JR will give him more time, assuming he wants it of course.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

Crawley Manager Betting
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink 3/1
Kenny Jackett 4/1

[Rob]

Good post NE Stag. We don't want to go back again to the two dreadful wasted seasons under John Dempster and Graham Coughlan in 2019-2020 and 2020-2021. We were heading back to the National League until Nigel Clough came along and saved us. We then made the play offs last season. We could do the same this season.

It took Ian Greaves three full seasons before we gained promotion and we finished 19th and 14th before finishing 3rd in 1985-1986. The fans would be calling for him to be sacked these days.

Did Greavesie have a top end budget? Did he have top notch training facilities? Did he have more coaches than Mega Bus? It's ridiculous to compare managers under JR with any before he came to the club.

Sneag is right, play-offs and he'll get a new deal, below 7th I think JR will move on.

[yorkshire stag]

Good post NE Stag. We don't want to go back again to the two dreadful wasted seasons under John Dempster and Graham Coughlan in 2019-2020 and 2020-2021. We were heading back to the National League until Nigel Clough came along and saved us. We then made the play offs last season. We could do the same this season.

It took Ian Greaves three full seasons before we gained promotion and we finished 19th and 14th before finishing 3rd in 1985-1986. The fans would be calling for him to be sacked these days.

Did Greavesie have a top end budget? Did he have top notch training facilities? Did he have more coaches than Mega Bus? It's ridiculous to compare managers under JR with any before he came to the club.

Sneag is right, play-offs and he'll get a new deal, below 7th I think JR will move on.

Agree, play off place absolute minimum, no excuses, his team, his formation & tactics

[Tippy Tappy Football]

You have become very sack happy since around 2013 onwards Rob. You are worse than Notts County.

[MTFCMusings]

There has to be an improvement on last season for a new deal to be offered.

[Chrisuknottm]

Does anyone feel that the team, the atmosphere and the standard and entertainment of the games is better than last year irrespective of our current league position ??

[Dan]

Could you imagine the meltdown on here if we finished 4th but lost the play offs and Clough went

[Amber Andy]

Could you imagine the meltdown on here if we finished 4th but lost the play offs and Clough went

As long as JR makes a better decision regarding the new manager, than he did in that scenario last time.

[Dan]

Could you imagine the meltdown on here if we finished 4th but lost the play offs and Clough went

As long as JR makes a better decision regarding the new manager, than he did in that scenario last time.

Good point well made!

[gazza1988]

Could you imagine the meltdown on here if we finished 4th but lost the play offs and Clough went

As long as JR makes a better decision regarding the new manager, than he did in that scenario last time.

Good point well made!

Richard Cooper anyone?

[Sneag]

Does anyone feel that the team, the atmosphere and the standard and entertainment of the games is better than last year irrespective of our current league position ??

No. I thought we were excellent at times last season, not least in the two play off semis.

This season the football has been pretty poor & the squad don't seem to be anywhere near as fit.

Despite the current league position we've been way off last season's level of performance.

[Sharp]

But if we don't make the top 7 this year, he won't be offered a new contract (mutual agreement & all that) and it will be because the progress of the previous 1 & a half seasons & extra revenue/support that generated will have been squandered.

I understand where you are coming from Sneag, but that additional revenue/ support has been generated by Clough being in charge and I think that's a combination of who he is, the fantastic run we went on last year, the football we played last year and the general feelgood factor. So if he has generated that then it seems highly unfair to suggest we should bin him off at a risk of losing it.

I think a lot of the criticism is way over the top. I agree with the fact he isn't playing the right formation and the squad is completely unbalanced (though not that we don't have enough players as we have 23 and that should be more than enough), and the fact some of his decisions have been odd. However we seem to forget where we were when he took over, in with a very real chance of getting relegated. That's been turned around in just over 2 years to a team who is now a contender for the Play off's/ automatic. Also listening to folk on here, he's done that without a single decent transfer window and by using everyone else's players (the same ones that had us rooted in the bottom 3 or 4).

We keep talking about budgets, but that has never guaranteed success in this league, certainly not overnight. It took Pompey 3 or 4 years to get out, Salford and all of their money have barely troubled the play offs, whilst the likes of Acrington and others have gone up on a shoestring.

I'm not sure what the better options people feel are out there, as we go through this debate every 12-18 months and it's always the same candidates apart from the ones that have failed miserably in the intervening period of time and we no longer mention.

[Martin Shaw]

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

But if we don't make the top 7 this year, he won't be offered a new contract (mutual agreement & all that) and it will be because the progress of the previous 1 & a half seasons & extra revenue/support that generated will have been squandered.

I understand where you are coming from Sneag, but that additional revenue/ support has been generated by Clough being in charge and I think that's a combination of who he is, the fantastic run we went on last year, the football we played last year and the general feelgood factor. So if he has generated that then it seems highly unfair to suggest we should bin him off at a risk of losing it.

I think a lot of the criticism is way over the top. I agree with the fact he isn't playing the right formation and the squad is completely unbalanced (though not that we don't have enough players as we have 23 and that should be more than enough), and the fact some of his decisions have been odd. However we seem to forget where we were when he took over, in with a very real chance of getting relegated. That's been turned around in just over 2 years to a team who is now a contender for the Play off's/ automatic. Also listening to folk on here, he's done that without a single decent transfer window and by using everyone else's players (the same ones that had us rooted in the bottom 3 or 4).

We keep talking about budgets, but that has never guaranteed success in this league, certainly not overnight. It took Pompey 3 or 4 years to get out, Salford and all of their money have barely troubled the play offs, whilst the likes of Acrington and others have gone up on a shoestring.

I'm not sure what the better options people feel are out there, as we go through this debate every 12-18 months and it's always the same candidates apart from the ones that have failed miserably in the intervening period of time and we no longer mention.

Sorry Sharp but I think you’ve misinterpreted Sneag’s point about transfer windows. When he said Nigel had poor windows he didn’t mean he had been unable to sign players more that some of the players were not of the required ability or application. Most of the current team were signed by Clough or at least had their contracts extended by him. The current players are not the ones who had us rooted to the foot of the table and the biggest majority of those have been moved on. By having poor windows, I’m pretty sure Sneag (and I’m sorry if I’m incorrect) was referring to the fact that Nigel has failed to bring quality into the biggest areas of weakness in the team.

[victor A block]

Clarkey lives near Southampton so that would be tempting for him.

Strange that he has a house there as hes not further south than Brizzle Rovers and then further north.
Maybe he's on Sandbanks with 'Arry.

[Sharp]

Just to clarify Sandy - as I wasn't clear at all, I wasn't aiming all of the response in my post at Sneag, but at the general comments on this board over the last few weeks. I've seen transfer windows described as horrendous and negligent to name 2 comments so I was talking in more general terms, I've also seen transfer windows (last January in particular) that were hailed as a huge success at the time, now retrospectively referred to as poor. So it was an overall point I was getting at. I think my point still stands - his business cannot be as bad as is being made out or we would not have had our best league finish since 2004 the two things just don't marry up. I also would agree that it could and should have been better in certain positions, the ones we all know about and have been done to death on here.

I just think is general he is getting far too rough a ride at the moment, and I don't want to see him leave whatever happens this season. We need stability for the first time in a long, long time and the high points of Cloughs reign have far outweighed the low, and even the low has basically been middling to average.

[Rob]

Clarkey lives near Southampton so that would be tempting for him.

Strange that he has a house there as hes not further south than Brizzle Rovers and then further north.
Maybe he's on Sandbanks with 'Arry.

He managed Salisbury for quite a while.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

I understand where you are coming from Sneag, but that additional revenue/ support has been generated by Clough being in charge and I think that's a combination of who he is, the fantastic run we went on last year, the football we played last year and the general feelgood factor. So if he has generated that then it seems highly unfair to suggest we should bin him off at a risk of losing it.

Very good point Rich.

I attended the club's AGM just before Christmas which considered the accounts for the 4 calendar years from 2018-2021. The club made a loss in all four years with a big loss of £322,593 for the covid year ending 31st December 2020. This loss was reduced to £45,774 for the year ending 31st December 2021. This gives me hope that the club may have made a profit for the year ending 31st December 2022 which included the play offs and record season ticket sales. This would only be the second time the club has made a profit since 2004. We made a small profit of £6,403 in 2016-2017.

Year End (Since return to Football League)
30/06/14 £721,146 Loss
30/06/15 £74,510 Loss
30/06/16 £10,077 Loss
30/06/17 £6,403 Profit
31/12/17 £132,785 Loss (6 Months)
31/12/18 £116,281 Loss
31/12/19 £50,904 Loss
31/12/20 £322,593 Loss
31/12/21 £45,774 Loss

I will update the accounts thread.

[Sneag]

Just to clarify Sandy - as I wasn't clear at all, I wasn't aiming all of the response in my post at Sneag, but at the general comments on this board over the last few weeks. I've seen transfer windows described as horrendous and negligent to name 2 comments so I was talking in more general terms, I've also seen transfer windows (last January in particular) that were hailed as a huge success at the time, now retrospectively referred to as poor. So it was an overall point I was getting at. I think my point still stands - his business cannot be as bad as is being made out or we would not have had our best league finish since 2004 the two things just don't marry up. I also would agree that it could and should have been better in certain positions, the ones we all know about and have been done to death on here.

I just think is general he is getting far too rough a ride at the moment, and I don't want to see him leave whatever happens this season. We need stability for the first time in a long, long time and the high points of Cloughs reign have far outweighed the low, and even the low has basically been middling to average.

FWIW I thought on paper the last January window was excellent, it didn't work out right on grass, but anyone who says they weren't happy with last January's dealings on 1st Feb last year, is fibbing.

I'd say for the most part I was happy with NC last season. He had occassions where he would make insane subs & team selections (Wembley being the most catastrophic] bit more often than not he got it right .

This season has been a very different kettle of fish though. Summer's business was 'm'eh'. Contract extensions given to aging player (no sentiment in football, we needed younger versions of Perch & Quinn). The style of play is bloody awful to watch. We've been okay in patches, but have never hit the heights of last season.

TBH I'm as baffled by this transformation as I am disappointed by it. Results & league position have papered over the cracks somewhat, but anytime we play a side with any pace or intensity we get dicked.

I hope this window is a stormer & my April I'm eating a big slab of humble pie. We'll see.

[Sneag]

Frank Lampard will be available in about half an hour.

[Marky Mark]

Just to clarify Sandy - as I wasn't clear at all, I wasn't aiming all of the response in my post at Sneag, but at the general comments on this board over the last few weeks. I've seen transfer windows described as horrendous and negligent to name 2 comments so I was talking in more general terms, I've also seen transfer windows (last January in particular) that were hailed as a huge success at the time, now retrospectively referred to as poor. So it was an overall point I was getting at. I think my point still stands - his business cannot be as bad as is being made out or we would not have had our best league finish since 2004 the two things just don't marry up. I also would agree that it could and should have been better in certain positions, the ones we all know about and have been done to death on here.

I just think is general he is getting far too rough a ride at the moment, and I don't want to see him leave whatever happens this season. We need stability for the first time in a long, long time and the high points of Cloughs reign have far outweighed the low, and even the low has basically been middling to average.

FWIW I thought on paper the last January window was excellent, it didn't work out right on grass, but anyone who says they weren't happy with last January's dealings on 1st Feb last year, is fibbing.

I'd say for the most part I was happy with NC last season. He had occassions where he would make insane subs & team selections (Wembley being the most catastrophic] bit more often than not he got it right .

This season has been a very different kettle of fish though. Summer's business was 'm'eh'. Contract extensions given to aging player (no sentiment in football, we needed younger versions of Perch & Quinn). The style of play is bloody awful to watch. We've been okay in patches, but have never hit the heights of last season.

TBH I'm as baffled by this transformation as I am disappointed by it. Results & league position have papered over the cracks somewhat, but anytime we play a side with any pace or intensity we get dicked.

I hope this window is a stormer & my April I'm eating a big slab of humble pie. We'll see.

I think Clough's transfer windows always appear underwhelming as he goes out and gets the business done early with minimum of fuss, drama and rumour, as opposed to trumpeting that we need 15 players and having a sulk till the end of the season because we only got 14 on deadline day. All bar Hartigan, of the Summer window, were done in the first 2 weeks of July I think.

[Richard Cranium]

Frank Lampard will be available in about half an hour.

PEAR CIDER has just told me Lamps being lined up as John Terry's assistant next season if Clough dont take us up

[bigalstag1]

Clough's transfer windows appear underwhelming, because they are.

[broomo]

Clough's transfer windows appear underwhelming, because they are.

Every game without fail you predict we're going to get hammered. So surely you're not underwhelmed, it's above your expectations if we ever sneak a win.

Of course when we do win you go into hiding.