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Defensive frailties

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Defensive frailties

Postby Grendon Stag » Sat Sep 11, 2021 9:42 pm

Having witnessed around 4 central defensive pairings over the last 6 months how long before the coaching and work on the training pitch is questioned?

Unless I'm mistaken we don't have a member of our coaching set up who has any experience in the role. Clough and Garner were strikers and Crosby played as an attacking midfield player.

I was lucky enough to do my FA badges at Leicester City and spent several months working with and observing coaches spending hours drilling the back 4 in keeping their shape, defending set pieces and coming out as a defensive unit when attacking.

By no means an expert before anybody pipes up but we just don't seem to know who's got what role
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:56 pm

Let's look at our successes in the past 20-30 years.

18/19, play offs - assistant was a defender (manager a midfielder)
03/04 play offs - manager was a defender
01/02 3rd place - assistant was a defender (manager a striker)
91/92 3rd place - manager was a defender.

Ian Greaves and Dave Smith were defenders. They did well.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby old ram stag » Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:10 am

Listened to their commentary yesterday and our defending was a big talking point all game, at one point the pro footballer who's name I don't know said " for a professional team this is the worst defending I have ever seen"
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Johnny Rotten » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:38 am

gazza1988 wrote:Let's look at our successes in the past 20-30 years.

18/19, play offs - assistant was a defender (manager a midfielder)
03/04 play offs - manager was a defender
01/02 3rd place - assistant was a defender (manager a striker)
91/92 3rd place - manager was a defender.

Ian Greaves and Dave Smith were defenders. They did well.


Peter Shirtliff, Graham Coughlin and Stuart Watkiss however.....

Watkiss particularly was terrible. He almost wrecked automatic promotion and the season after was horrific for every time we had a set piece you had the fear of god we'd concede

Memory serves George Foster's record wasn't amazing either (happy to be corrected). I think 91/92 is Foster but it's generous to point out the promotion rather than his record in entirety but hey you can make stats and records represent what you prefer/like ;-)
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby yellas-derek-yellas » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:56 am

There has been talk about this in the stands near me for a while. Who is coaching our defence?
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby yellowstagsfan » Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:59 am

Corey O’Keefe Rochdale player of the month for August
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby bear 73 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:15 am

I think Clough has tried to bring attacking football to the stags by playing on the front foot, but to do this you have to have outstanding central defenders.
Keeping clean sheets have to be a priority, and the two full backs have to be defensive, with a defensive midfielder or perhaps two defensive midfielders.
and we need to be difficult to beat. Build from the back, some 1-0 wins would be welcome
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby halifaxstag » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:08 am

Maybe Clough needs to modify his tactics a bit. It is great to want to play attacking football, but this has resulted in some of the frailties mentioned.
The average position of our full backs (Gordon and McLaughlin) is over the half way line ahead of Maris in the holding midfield role. This results in the two centre backs (whoever they are) having to cover a lot of ground with their average position being too far apart with no protection( look at the starting positions of Hewitt and Narty for Walsall’s long balls) It also means that Macca and Kellan are often in a recovery position when they do have to defend. No matter how fit you are this must take its toll, both physically and on concentration levels.
If the full backs were to drop maybe 5 or 10 yards on average we might see better results at the back without a major detriment to our attacking potential.

It’s not an easy fix and I’m no expert, just some thoughts from watching this seasons matches and information( or Stats, if you like) from a few websites.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:43 am

Johnny Rotten wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Let's look at our successes in the past 20-30 years.

18/19, play offs - assistant was a defender (manager a midfielder)
03/04 play offs - manager was a defender
01/02 3rd place - assistant was a defender (manager a striker)
91/92 3rd place - manager was a defender.

Ian Greaves and Dave Smith were defenders. They did well.


Peter Shirtliff, Graham Coughlin and Stuart Watkiss however.....

Watkiss particularly was terrible. He almost wrecked automatic promotion and the season after was horrific for every time we had a set piece you had the fear of god we'd concede

Memory serves George Foster's record wasn't amazing either (happy to be corrected). I think 91/92 is Foster but it's generous to point out the promotion rather than his record in entirety but hey you can make stats and records represent what you prefer/like ;-)


Firstly, my point was all/most of our success had come from a defensive influence in the gaffer/assistant. Not that defensive influence = success. Also, if you look at 01/02 I said the assistant was the defender, so I didn't accredit the success to Watkiss but to Dearden (the striker).

91/92 - I was born June '88, I don't remember the form all that well. I'm hardly going to comment on the form.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Sedgwick » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:18 am

One thing I noticed is when they played it over the top, the pace of Macca and Gordon was useless because they were so high up the pitch... but without them we have little attacking threat out wide.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Hitchcocks size 10s » Sun Sep 12, 2021 10:34 am

yellowstagsfan wrote:Corey O’Keefe Rochdale player of the month for August

It’s a good job that he can’t play next week then, he would have had a field day against our defence. I bet Menayese was sat in the stand yesterday watching those 2 clowns at CH and thinking ‘ am I really that bad that I never got a chance under NC ‘
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Hjeldefan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:48 am

Sedgwick wrote:One thing I noticed is when they played it over the top, the pace of Macca and Gordon was useless because they were so high up the pitch... but without them we have little attacking threat out wide.

And when they are high up the pitch, teams just lump it into the channels and we are exposed. The narrow diamond clearly does not work.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby stag324 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:58 am

I know many have asked but I do think we need an explanation as to why was O'keefe & Menayese sent out on loan.

Menayese I think played one full game under NC and did alright. I know before that he was poor but not under Clough.
O'keefe never given a chance by our last 3 managers, I do wonder why.

As for our current defence, we shouldn't be as bad as what we are. Players have played higher up the pyramid than league 2.

Is our midfield failing to support? I think this has a lot to do with it and also Bowery isn't in the team to hold the ball up top like last season so it just comes straight back on the defence.

With Clough's latest outbursts I would imagine the players feel like they are walking on eggshells at present and are extremly nervous. This shows in their lethargic displays.

Give them a couple of days off, re-group and we go again. Build from the back, supporters support and managers encourage
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby bellwhiff » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:01 am

stag324 wrote:I know many have asked but I do think we need an explanation as to why was O'keefe & Menayese sent out on loan.

Menayese I think played one full game under NC and did alright. I know before that he was poor but not under Clough.
O'keefe never given a chance by our last 3 managers, I do wonder why.

As for our current defence, we shouldn't be as bad as what we are. Players have played higher up the pyramid than league 2.

Is our midfield failing to support? I think this has a lot to do with it and also Bowery isn't in the team to hold the ball up top like last season so it just comes straight back on the defence.

With Clough's latest outbursts I would imagine the players feel like they are walking on eggshells at present and are extremly nervous. This shows in their lethargic displays.

Give them a couple of days off, re-group and we go again. Build from the back, supporters support and managers encourage

That’s the point. NC needs to be asked those questions. Stevo’s chances of him asking a tough question is lower than whaleshit.

Does the Chad get access to the manager ? Radio Nottingham?

It’s controlled worse than Trump and Fox News.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby PEAR CIDER » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:45 am

People will say that if Bowery is the saviour then we are stuff, fact of the matter is, as a regular down that left-hand side last season, we looked a stronger side.

He did his fair share of defensive duties and covered a lot of ground every game.

granted he doesn't score a lot but his work rate contributed to a lot more clean sheets.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Captain Cunno » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:28 pm

A forward that doesn't score a lot is hardly the answer.....

It's literally his main objective.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:28 pm

bellwhiff wrote:Does the Chad get access to the manager ? Radio Nottingham?

yes, 3 times per week when there is no midweek game. 5 times per week when there is.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby bellwhiff » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:35 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:Does the Chad get access to the manager ? Radio Nottingham?

yes, 3 times per week when there is no midweek game. 5 times per week when there is.

OK thanks. Then I wonder if Chadman would answer why he’s not asking the right questions
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby yorkshire stag » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:42 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:Does the Chad get access to the manager ? Radio Nottingham?

yes, 3 times per week when there is no midweek game. 5 times per week when there is.

OK thanks. Then I wonder if Chadman would answer why he’s not asking the right questions


i remember the irritating young presenter Radio Mansfield had some years ago that blocked everyone, can’t remember his name, he was class he went straight for the jugular every interview :lol:
apart from him i don’t think i’ve ever heard a Stags manager get a hard time on the Radio
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Dan » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:53 pm

Was it Alex Bellfield?
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:21 pm

No Dave something.

Dave Rhodes?

Infamously asked Cox after a win if he thought we created enough to win. :lol:

Every interview tried to put a negative slant on it

Edit: Might not be Dave
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby HU7stag » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:33 pm

gazza1988 wrote:No Dave something.

Dave Rhodes?

Infamously asked Cox after a win if he thought we created enough to win. :lol:

Every interview tried to put a negative slant on it

Edit: Might not be Dave


David flipping Rhodes.

'Political Correspondent' for the BBC.

It now makes sense. Asking questions as though he was speaking to an MP.

https://mobile.twitter.com/davidrhodesB ... r%5Eauthor

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/david-rhodes-b9545442
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby gazza1988 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:38 pm

So it was Dave Rhodes. I think that question came after a few wins on the trot when Coxy would just go mental after Nov and win most games.

"did...er....do you think.....err... that you...err.......created.......err.....enough chances in that game to get the win?"

It went something like that. I think Cox just said "well y'know we won... so yes"

Probably not exact but it was something like that
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Spiritater » Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:36 am

Dan wrote:Was it Alex Bellfield?

No, he was just a WUM and complete rissole.
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Re: Defensive frailties

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:26 am

Captain Cunno wrote:A forward that doesn't score a lot is hardly the answer.....

It's literally his main objective.


Back to last year we if we are going to rely on Bowrey... Id say play him if he was going to get tons of assists and a few goals himself but he won't.
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