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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby stagone1959 » Tue May 25, 2021 10:56 am

Rob wrote:
stagone1959 wrote:The game is not the same on plastic,go to Basford or Staveley and see.It is more like a game of five a side.They are good for community clubs like Staveley as they generate extra revenue but they should be confined to below the National league.


So Sutton isn't a community club? Harrogate?

Clubs at our level should have the choice, I suspect given our pitch issues over the years we'd adopt it given the chance. Its good enough for international football, champions league, Europa league and many top divisions across the world, it's therefore good enough for Div 4 :D



League 4 is about right,2 divisions below us !
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby adamstag » Tue May 25, 2021 10:56 am

Rob wrote:
stagone1959 wrote:The game is not the same on plastic,go to Basford or Staveley and see.It is more like a game of five a side.They are good for community clubs like Staveley as they generate extra revenue but they should be confined to below the National league.


So Sutton isn't a community club? Harrogate?

Clubs at our level should have the choice, I suspect given our pitch issues over the years we'd adopt it given the chance. Its good enough for international football, champions league, Europa league and many top divisions across the world, it's therefore good enough for Div 4 :D


Exactly, it’s such a ridiculous argument in fairness, elite football (as you say internationals, champions league etc) plays on it but it should only stay below conference level :lol:

If a report was ran on the number of postponements and associated costs i’m sure it’d show very quickly the many pitfalls of grass
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby stagone1959 » Tue May 25, 2021 11:02 am

adamstag wrote:
Rob wrote:
stagone1959 wrote:The game is not the same on plastic,go to Basford or Staveley and see.It is more like a game of five a side.They are good for community clubs like Staveley as they generate extra revenue but they should be confined to below the National league.


So Sutton isn't a community club? Harrogate?

Clubs at our level should have the choice, I suspect given our pitch issues over the years we'd adopt it given the chance. Its good enough for international football, champions league, Europa league and many top divisions across the world, it's therefore good enough for Div 4 :D


Exactly, it’s such a ridiculous argument in fairness, elite football (as you say internationals, champions league etc) plays on it but it should only stay below conference level :lol:

If a report was ran on the number of postponements and associated costs i’m sure it’d show very quickly the many pitfalls of grass

Elite football uses VAR,you want that too.
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3G pitches

Postby Kernow » Tue May 25, 2021 11:37 am

We train on grass, the plastic pitch has caused injuries.
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby Rob » Tue May 25, 2021 2:02 pm

Kernow wrote:We train on grass, the plastic pitch has caused injuries.


In bad weather the club use the artificial surface, as do England at St George's.

Specifically which injuries have been caused by the 4g pitch that would not have occurred on grass?

Research is split on injuries, see below, but clearly they are safe as they have been licensed for use at every level of football. The Dutch have been playing on these pitches for over 20 years, I think if they caused excessive injuries they'd have stopped using them by now.

https://www.sportslabs.co.uk/field-note ... f-injuries
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby Amber Andy » Tue May 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Widening the issue, there is a prevalence of plastic lawns these days, which is very bad for the environment.
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby Martin Shaw » Tue May 25, 2021 2:55 pm

I think this thread would benefit from being two separate threads. One on the National League promotion & play-offs. And a separate one on 3G pitches. So I'll split them out.
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby chip63 » Tue May 25, 2021 3:43 pm

Dan wrote:Ilkeston have shared photos of their pitch being ripped up today as they are putting down “state of the art 4G”.


Are they fitting concrete hoardings too, they could get both ready for their pre season friendlies.
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby Sneag » Tue May 25, 2021 3:55 pm

Amber Andy wrote:Widening the issue, there is a prevalence of plastic lawns these days, which is very bad for the environment.


There are three in our street. 1 has done a great job & it's hard to spot that it artificial, 2 look cheap, nasty
, chavvy as Hell & already have weeds growing through. Agree they are very bad for the environment & local wildlife.
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Re: National League promotion & play-offs thread

Postby bellwhiff » Tue May 25, 2021 7:46 pm

Sneag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:Widening the issue, there is a prevalence of plastic lawns these days, which is very bad for the environment.


There are three in our street. 1 has done a great job & it's hard to spot that it artificial, 2 look cheap, nasty
, chavvy as Hell & already have weeds growing through. Agree they are very bad for the environment & local wildlife.

I have had one for about 8 years. My garden is tiny. 7m squared. Still cost over 2.5k back then. Looks good still and great for the grandkids. I doubt if Greta is going to get on my case.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby adamstag » Tue May 25, 2021 7:57 pm

There’s certainly a massive improvement and it’s harder and harder to see how anyone with knowledge of football pitches can have a problem with it.

I predict lower league pitches will be mainly these pitches in the next decade, though that depends on how much input dinosaurs continue to have
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby stagone1959 » Tue May 25, 2021 8:15 pm

This dinosaur would prefer the option of standing too or is that to be outlawed under the guise of progress,tell you what ban heading the ball while you are at it .
ps I have no knowledge of pitches, but do know that the plastic(however many G) provides a much more sterile spectacle.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Dan » Tue May 25, 2021 8:24 pm

stagone1959 wrote:This dinosaur would prefer the option of standing too or is that to be outlawed under the guise of progress,tell you what ban heading the ball while you are at it .


That won’t be long either.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Rob » Tue May 25, 2021 8:26 pm

Dan wrote:
stagone1959 wrote:This dinosaur would prefer the option of standing too or is that to be outlawed under the guise of progress,tell you what ban heading the ball while you are at it .


That won’t be long either.


It'll certainly be banned at junior levels and likely to be restricted in training sessions if the link to Dementia/Alzheimers is proven.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby adamstag » Tue May 25, 2021 8:29 pm

stagone1959 wrote:This dinosaur would prefer the option of standing too or is that to be outlawed under the guise of progress,tell you what ban heading the ball while you are at it .


Not entirely sure how that argument had any relevance to this :shock:
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby stagone1959 » Tue May 25, 2021 8:32 pm

Not everything new is progress
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby adamstag » Tue May 25, 2021 8:40 pm

stagone1959 wrote:Not everything new is progress


True, but anyone with any nouse about them would understand how this makes sense and how it would work for lower league clubs.

In fairness the same folk probably still think climate change is made up :lol:
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Spiritater » Tue May 25, 2021 10:14 pm

Plastic grass has about as much appeal to me as drinking out of a plastic pint pot. Plastic does the same job but a cool pint on a Summers day is best in a glass.

Grass- plastic
Plastic- Glass

You go to a swanky restruant and they bring your wine in a plastic wine glass what do you say? "Can I have a proper glass please?"
Waiter says we're getting too many breakages so we've gone plastic, we think they do the same job and last longer'

You reach for the knife to bang it on the table in fury and find it's plastic too.

" i don't eat my dinner with plastic cutlery sunshine, get me some proper stuff'

"But Sir it does the same thing as steel or glass'

C'mon darling , we're leaving. We'll go somewhere where we get a proper glass and cutlery. Oi! and waiter you can tell the manager to stick his plastic knife up his jacksie.

Glass- plastic
Plastic- grass.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby bellwhiff » Wed May 26, 2021 7:25 am

Spiritater wrote:Plastic grass has about as much appeal to me as drinking out of a plastic pint pot. Plastic does the same job but a cool pint on a Summers day is best in a glass.

Grass- plastic
Plastic- Glass

You go to a swanky restruant and they bring your wine in a plastic wine glass what do you say? "Can I have a proper glass please?"
Waiter says we're getting too many breakages so we've gone plastic, we think they do the same job and last longer'

You reach for the knife to bang it on the table in fury and find it's plastic too.

" i don't eat my dinner with plastic cutlery sunshine, get me some proper stuff'

"But Sir it does the same thing as steel or glass'

C'mon darling , we're leaving. We'll go somewhere where we get a proper glass and cutlery. Oi! and waiter you can tell the manager to stick his plastic knife up his jacksie.

Glass- plastic
Plastic- grass.


Daft analogy.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed May 26, 2021 7:35 am

I’ve also had artificial lawns for around 7 years and must say it has made a huge difference to my garden. My dogs can use it all year long and we don’t get the old problem of mud everywhere or having to cut it every few days in the growing season.

It does need maintenance as weeds grow in it (as opposed to through it) as soil/sand still blows onto the surface thus providing the growing medium. I find that the main problem is that it gets very hot in sunny weather sometimes to the extent that you need to wear shoes when walking on it. It’s a bit like walking on a beach on a hot day. The surface can also get quite stiff when frozen but it never freezes solid so you couldn’t play on it.

At the end of the day you get what you pay for and there is no doubt the better quality surfaces are excellent but the cheaper ones not so good. If plastic pitches were to be allowed there must be a minimum standard and a minimum maintenance regime. The amount of watering allowed should also be regulated as it’s nothing short of a slide with lots of water on it.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Curry 9 Brace 7 » Wed May 26, 2021 7:59 am

If your dogs pee on it etc doesnt it need hosing down in hot weather ?
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Curry 9 Brace 7 » Wed May 26, 2021 8:01 am

Sounds disgusting, i suppose if its too much trouble to cut grass every fortnite maybe too much trouble to hose it down as well ;)
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed May 26, 2021 9:50 am

Curry 9 Brace 7 wrote:If your dogs pee on it etc doesnt it need hosing down in hot weather ?


Do you hose your lawn down when your dogs pee on it?

It’s not waterproof and liquids pass through it and into the soil underneath just like it does on real grass. That said, yes I do hose it down regularly if we haven’t had any rain. We still get insects and worms etc and the birds still rummage in it. If you only cut your grass every fortnight, it must be in a fairly bad state and overgrown. It certainly wouldn’t be fit to play football on.
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Re: 3G/4G pitches

Postby bear 73 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:35 am

Grass is being replaced at the top clubs and it is expensive many have got Desso surfaces, and this is a mixture of grass and plastic, and is allowed in the football league.
This is the modern surface, all artificial surfaces are banned in the football league as their have been many complaints against them.
The Desso type pitch has proved a success and Wembley has one, any non-league club who wants the benefit of a artificial surface can get it with this method and be welcomed into the football league, Clough had requested one at Sheff UTD, .Mansfield have not took that route it is a lot of money for a league 1 or 2 club.
But all the benefits of 3 and 4 g pitches are in this system for football league clubs
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