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Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:38 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:Our Nigel has inherited possibly one of the shallowest talent pools in terms of a squad in history.


And managed to make it even more shallow.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby diablo » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:50 pm

The One wrote:
Stagdale wrote:I think Nigel is living off his reputation at the moment. He has made some disastrous mistakes so far as our manager such as :

1 Continually playing Gordon at full back. How many mistakes does he have to make before he is dropped? I feel very sorry for O’keefe who surely can’t be worse than Gordon.
2 very poor use of substitutes. Today was shambolic.
3 say what you like but he really did mess up in the transfer window. Please someone, tell me what does his brother do as head of recruitment? It is all very well saying he saved us money by getting Maynard and Cook off the payroll but this will be very shortsighted if we get relegated.
4 He wanted to be fair to them both and let them get first team football. His job is to do the best thing for MTFC and in my view he should have kept Cook and started him (like he does Reid) and he would have been happy. Certainly would contribute more than Reid who is probably one of the worst players I have seen pull on a Stag’s shirt and I have seen a few in my 60 years of supporting them! A manager of his experience should not have left us so short of bodies. With the fixture congestion he should have anticipated injuries, suspensions and fatigue.
4 I worry about his choice of players. He has extended the contacts of both Gordon and Charsley. Gordon speaks for himself match after match and Charsley just runs around a lot.
5 I don’t Know who coaches the team but there really is some shocking football played at the moment. In particular set pieces. They are an embarrassment. I am not suggesting we should score from every free kick or corner but we should be putting the opponent’s defenders under much more pressure than we do. Have we got a player who can actually strike a dead ball well? Do we practice these during the week?

I guess I will be berated on here for daring to criticise Nigel but I do think these comments are reasonable.


What a waste of ink



Like it or not it is accurate and to the point
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby diablo » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:52 pm

ParisStag wrote:No it wasn't. Gordon isn't bad. He is a real threat going forward, although agree that he's it's not working him being played out of position. Something must have gone off with O'Keeffe.



LOL he's a real threat going forward but is being played out of position...so whose fault is that?
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby adamstag » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:55 pm

diablo wrote:
The One wrote:
Stagdale wrote:I think Nigel is living off his reputation at the moment. He has made some disastrous mistakes so far as our manager such as :

1 Continually playing Gordon at full back. How many mistakes does he have to make before he is dropped? I feel very sorry for O’keefe who surely can’t be worse than Gordon.
2 very poor use of substitutes. Today was shambolic.
3 say what you like but he really did mess up in the transfer window. Please someone, tell me what does his brother do as head of recruitment? It is all very well saying he saved us money by getting Maynard and Cook off the payroll but this will be very shortsighted if we get relegated.
4 He wanted to be fair to them both and let them get first team football. His job is to do the best thing for MTFC and in my view he should have kept Cook and started him (like he does Reid) and he would have been happy. Certainly would contribute more than Reid who is probably one of the worst players I have seen pull on a Stag’s shirt and I have seen a few in my 60 years of supporting them! A manager of his experience should not have left us so short of bodies. With the fixture congestion he should have anticipated injuries, suspensions and fatigue.
4 I worry about his choice of players. He has extended the contacts of both Gordon and Charsley. Gordon speaks for himself match after match and Charsley just runs around a lot.
5 I don’t Know who coaches the team but there really is some shocking football played at the moment. In particular set pieces. They are an embarrassment. I am not suggesting we should score from every free kick or corner but we should be putting the opponent’s defenders under much more pressure than we do. Have we got a player who can actually strike a dead ball well? Do we practice these during the week?

I guess I will be berated on here for daring to criticise Nigel but I do think these comments are reasonable.


What a waste of ink



Like it or not it is accurate and to the point


Maybe you’d have preferred to have knocked around the relegation zone with coughlan instead? 9 points clear now.

His remit was to keep us up with what is probably the worst set of players i’ve seen in the league, they’re beyond hopeless. He’s achieved his remit for this season.

Has he made mistakes yeah, we all know that, those saying clough is living off his name, who would they choose as a replacement, just out of curiosity?

Maybe let him have a bit of next season with his own players?
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:04 pm

I am Spartacus wrote:Our Nigel has inherited possibly one of the shallowest talent pools in terms of a squad in history. 2 yrs, 2 terrible management appointments and 3 inept transfer windows took their toll before he arrived. Coupled with financially straightened and unprecedented times that we will hopefully never see the like of again. He is doing what his employers have wanted, as someone said previously, he is steadying the apple cart.

At the end of the transfer window he had the players, as we have now seen, playing above their abilities and the club’s strategy was based upon that. Players poor decision making and dropping off in form, so dramatically, neither he or those on here that dreamt of the play offs could see. No one in January expected this season to be ending with a whimper and whine rather than a bang. With hindsight things could have been done differently but that happens with ever decision made in life. The transfer window was a ‘sliding doors moment’ for the club and in effect Nigel has had his chance with Gwyneth Paltrow.

We are playing poorly, as frustrating and unwatchable this is, I think we have enough ‘in the tank’ to stay up.

Judge him, after the transfer window in August when he has sorted the wheat (not much from the chaff) from the chaff (lots of). Quite a few of the players we have now will, thankfully for them, never make the worst Stags players roll call as we have had the luxury of not seeing them in the flesh.

Judge him and his achievements in November when his side has had time to bed in and be his side, not when he is doing the best with an assembled collective of ‘not good enoughs’. Remember, with Easter in mind, he is not our messiah just a manager.


Here be the voice of reason.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby adamstag » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:07 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:Our Nigel has inherited possibly one of the shallowest talent pools in terms of a squad in history. 2 yrs, 2 terrible management appointments and 3 inept transfer windows took their toll before he arrived. Coupled with financially straightened and unprecedented times that we will hopefully never see the like of again. He is doing what his employers have wanted, as someone said previously, he is steadying the apple cart.

At the end of the transfer window he had the players, as we have now seen, playing above their abilities and the club’s strategy was based upon that. Players poor decision making and dropping off in form, so dramatically, neither he or those on here that dreamt of the play offs could see. No one in January expected this season to be ending with a whimper and whine rather than a bang. With hindsight things could have been done differently but that happens with ever decision made in life. The transfer window was a ‘sliding doors moment’ for the club and in effect Nigel has had his chance with Gwyneth Paltrow.

We are playing poorly, as frustrating and unwatchable this is, I think we have enough ‘in the tank’ to stay up.

Judge him, after the transfer window in August when he has sorted the wheat (not much from the chaff) from the chaff (lots of). Quite a few of the players we have now will, thankfully for them, never make the worst Stags players roll call as we have had the luxury of not seeing them in the flesh.

Judge him and his achievements in November when his side has had time to bed in and be his side, not when he is doing the best with an assembled collective of ‘not good enoughs’. Remember, with Easter in mind, he is not our messiah just a manager.


Here be the voice of reason.


Amen to that, but don’t let that get in the way of stupid.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Torrystag » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:27 pm

So whats stupid about voicing concern over our failures over the season ,are we safe hopefully ,but certainly not mathematically ,can anyone see us scoring many goals with our strikers ,not me ,are our obvious defensive frailties going to suddenly stop ,dont think so ,fans are voicing there concerns its not stupid to me and many more its a genuine concern ,but the experts on here have said we are safe we all hope so ,but we are certainly on current form one of the weakest teams in this division ,stupid what a ridiculous assertion
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby bear 73 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:44 pm

Stagdale, Clough living of his reputation, his reputation is to leave clubs in a better position than when he came, disastrous mistakes he did not sign the players he inherited many on 2 year contracts, he had one transfer window, were the budget needed reducing not increasing , with the club losing money during a pandemic, Doing the best for Mansfield is stability
living within your means, and making full value of the academy, fans always think players not in the team should be, Law, Sinclair, Ward are having game time and will be the better for it next year, with the amount of games most clubs are short of bodies, Gordon and Charsley are part of the players inherited,, and giving Gordon a new contract is up to the manager.
Shocking football you should be used to it, this is league 2 poor pitches, plenty of cloggers and most clubs aim to stop football being played all the mistakes and problems come from no time between games to coach standard league 2 players to improve their game, playing Sat=Tues most weeks,, most clubs do not take kindly to conceding from set pieces.
8 pages for a win--13 pages for a loss, when people talk about the natives soon getting restless, they are spot on.
The remit for the job at Mansfield was to take the club forward and the people who know how this works, told all who was listening, it would take Time & Patience, this requires a minimum
of 3 years for a club to build from the ground work to a better future, So losing faith in 5 months is a bit premature,
7 games to go and still 9 points up from the drop zone, and if we go into the conference Clough knows all about it
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby chip63 » Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:28 pm

The wage bill would not of been reduced if Cloughs 2 targets didn't fall through at the last minute.
I'm absolutely positive we would be safe by now if they would of signed and also absolutely positive if Cook or Maynard would of stayed.

Not sure if Clough was stitched up good and proper by Burton or not.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:05 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
I am Spartacus wrote:Our Nigel has inherited possibly one of the shallowest talent pools in terms of a squad in history.


And managed to make it even more shallow.

Pretty sure it wasn’t all Cloughs fault Belly. I’d put money on someone above asking him to shift some big wages off the bill. It’s crazy otherwise imo. One yes. Two, noooooo!!!
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Torrystag » Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:47 pm

Thats what i posted earlier if its sharpes or cloughs decision or both its looking like a poor decision
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:16 pm

chip63 wrote:The wage bill would not of been reduced if Cloughs 2 targets didn't fall through at the last minute.
I'm absolutely positive we would be safe by now if they would of signed and also absolutely positive if Cook or Maynard would of stayed.

Not sure if Clough was stitched up good and proper by Burton or not.

I'm not at all positive with Cook or Maynard we would be safe.
I agree the wage bill wouldn't have changed much if the two Burton players had signed. The point is the money would be better spent on the two Burton players as they would be a fit into NC's system of playing. At least one of them will be here next season.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Johnny H » Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:35 pm

the argument over Clough being told to save money is a bit farcical.

For arguments sake....let say he saved £6-7k per week in letting Cook and Maynard go out on loan.
How much do we think Akins wages would have been....and Brayford who he reportedly wanted too.
How much do you think Quinn is on a week ??
If Akins had signed I would be amazed if Quinn and Akins wages were less than AC and NM's.

He was a poor manager towards the end of his reign at Burton......he's not improved much since !
His CV is great....but that means nothing if he is making errors week in week out.
Dozens of managers have multiple promotions on their CV....but it again means nothing when they are old school and getting beat or only drawing at best every week in their new job.

C'Mon Cloughie, prove me wrong....
Play a formation that suits the players we have and play them in more natural positions and try and get them to put a shift in !
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:00 pm

At the end of the transfer window, we had signed Quinn on loan and Laps lie on a permanent deal.
We missed out on 2 Burton players having released two wholly unsuccessful strikers meaning that we brought in a utility forward as a striker.
This meant that, with Caine, we had four strikers 2 of whom were on great form supported by a midfield who were chipping in with goals and creating a strong base for the strikers. The 2 main strikers look woeful now and the other two are injured.
The midfield then were hit by injuries.

At the end of January and in the middle of that run, it didn't seem as disastrous as it does now. People were unhappy then because they were looking at promotion not avoiding relegation.

A lot of people seem to forget that Lapslie had left the club during the window before we signed him on a permanent contract
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:05 pm

You keep going on about the formation Johnny, and again I will tell you that we played two up top against Orient, as we have started with for the last five games.

There’s nothing wrong with the system. We consistently create more chances than the opposition. The players are the problem and that will hopefully be solved in the Summer.

I think this may fall on deaf ears with you though, as you seem to have it in for the manager.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Johnny H » Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:35 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:You keep going on about the formation Johnny, and again I will tell you that we played two up top against Orient, as we have started with for the last five games.

There’s nothing wrong with the system. We consistently create more chances than the opposition. The players are the problem and that will hopefully be solved in the Summer.

I think this may fall on deaf ears with you though, as you seem to have it in for the manager.



Jeez.......how was this squad built....what formation was it built for ??
Play 532......give Gordon and Benning the freedom to attack (which they are both better at than defending)
Play Maris or Quinn in the holding role and get the front two touching shoulders.
Bowery and Reid are consistently played too far apart.....whether that be in a 433 formation with numerous players out of position or in the recent diamond formation.
Playing players out of their natural position doesn't work...we see this at MTFC most weeks, even Liverpool are seeing the effects of it !!!
We all slagged GC off for his failings, but at least we looked like we would score goals.

Yes...I do have it in for the manager....because he really hasn't improved us, just created different problems !!
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:03 pm

I think your bias is effecting your objectivity. The stats show we’ve scored more under Clough than under GC.

Given all the objectives are planning towards next season, why would Clough use a formation which he won’t be using next season to suit players who on all likelihood won’t be here next season. His only objective for this season was to keep us up and as it stands it looks as if he will achieve that. If you look at his PPG since he was appointed, it’s that of a midtable side.

I don’t know what you’re talking about with the front two. Do you want them to hold hands or something? You also say we had numerous players out of position yesterday. Who were they?
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby The One » Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:41 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:I think your bias is effecting your objectivity. The stats show we’ve scored more under Clough than under GC.

Given all the objectives are planning towards next season, why would Clough use a formation which he won’t be using next season to suit players who on all likelihood won’t be here next season. His only objective for this season was to keep us up and as it stands it looks as if he will achieve that. If you look at his PPG since he was appointed, it’s that of a midtable side.

I don’t know what you’re talking about with the front two. Do you want them to hold hands or something? You also say we had numerous players out of position yesterday. Who were they?



Good points there Musings.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby part time pete » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:14 am

We only lost 0.8 xG to 1.1 xG instead of 0-2, game a lot closer than most people thought. ;)
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby James » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:53 am

Johnny H wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:You keep going on about the formation Johnny, and again I will tell you that we played two up top against Orient, as we have started with for the last five games.

There’s nothing wrong with the system. We consistently create more chances than the opposition. The players are the problem and that will hopefully be solved in the Summer.

I think this may fall on deaf ears with you though, as you seem to have it in for the manager.



Jeez.......how was this squad built....what formation was it built for ??
Play 532......give Gordon and Benning the freedom to attack (which they are both better at than defending)
Play Maris or Quinn in the holding role and get the front two touching shoulders.
Bowery and Reid are consistently played too far apart.....whether that be in a 433 formation with numerous players out of position or in the recent diamond formation.
Playing players out of their natural position doesn't work...we see this at MTFC most weeks, even Liverpool are seeing the effects of it !!!
We all slagged GC off for his failings, but at least we looked like we would score goals.

Yes...I do have it in for the manager....because he really hasn't improved us, just created different problems !!


Looked like we would score goals under Coughlan, you mad?
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:24 am

Since Clough took over, our league record is 9 wins 10 draws 9 defeats. 37 points from 28 games. Very much mid-table and very much better that what went before it, this season or last season.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby daddycool » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:52 am

Johnny H wrote:the argument over Clough being told to save money is a bit farcical.

For arguments sake....let say he saved £6-7k per week in letting Cook and Maynard go out on loan.
How much do we think Akins wages would have been....and Brayford who he reportedly wanted too.
How much do you think Quinn is on a week ??
If Akins had signed I would be amazed if Quinn and Akins wages were less than AC and NM's.

He was a poor manager towards the end of his reign at Burton......he's not improved much since !
His CV is great....but that means nothing if he is making errors week in week out.
Dozens of managers have multiple promotions on their CV....but it again means nothing when they are old school and getting beat or only drawing at best every week in their new job.

C'Mon Cloughie, prove me wrong....
Play a formation that suits the players we have and play them in more natural positions and try and get them to put a shift in !


Point taken ,you don’t like him .
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:53 am

Stephen Quinn has been one of our better players so he has been a good signing.

We have given most teams a decent game since NC arrived but we have been let down by failing to take chances and silly defensive errors. The usual "fine margins in both boxes".

We dominated the game against Orient (64% possession) but struggled to create chances but we should have come away with a point. Orient's goals and chances came from errors by Kellan Gordon, Aidan Stone and Jamie Reid.

A couple of quality players will make all the difference and NC said in a recent interview he is looking to bring in around 6 quality players.
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby daddycool » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:56 am

Akins and Bradford ,are nailed on in the Burton team every week so it’s seems strange they may have been available in jan .
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Re: Nigel Clough; Leyton Orient post match

Postby oldweststander » Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:33 am

I think Nigel is longing for this season to end and to reshape the squad in his image for next season.

It is slightly worrying that the only two out of contract players who have been offered new deals and accepted have had a sudden down turn in form.

What we don't know is, are there any underlying reasons such as players carrying slight injuries. Olly Clatke for instance, supposed to be tired and is being left out of the starting 11. If it were just tiredness he would have recovered by now?

I still feel Gordon should play wide midfield, he can't defend to save his life but is a very positive attacking force.
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