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Re: Retained List

Postby James » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:05 pm

I really don't know what people have seen in Sweeney the past 2 seasons that warrants a new deal. I think there are better options out there personally.
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Re: Retained List

Postby Amber Andy » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:08 pm

part time pete wrote:If Sweeney does leave I suspect he will go to Port Vale with his Flitcroft and Darryl Clarke connections.

Same can be said for Benning.
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Re: Retained List

Postby bear 73 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:11 pm

A lot of fans think Mansfield Town are rolling in cash, we have had a year of no crowds and just keeping the club ticking over, and we talk about paying players contracts up, while requiring 6 or 7 new players, it aint going to happen, this squad are having a chance to develop and some will improve and and some will move on, the academy will carry on with young players being brought into the squad to help the clubs finances, Any new players will have to add quality to the team and will be expensive, which will have to be offset by savings within the club
The budget will relate to a league 2 club with a 4000 fan base, with a pandemic next season could still have crowd restrictions
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Re: Retained List

Postby BH_Stag » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:13 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:I’m a bit torn with some of them, such as Sweeney and Benning, as they have proved that they can be part of a promotion chasing side in the past but have not reached those levels over the last couple of years. Do you hang on to them and try and improve or do you let them go?

Particularly with Sweeney. Still young, huge, left footed. You get the feelings that he could leave and then end up going on to better things.


I’d personally let both go now, I think it’s time for a fresh start after the promotion ‘collapse’ and then 2 really poor years for the team which they have been a part of.

With Sweeney still young, and knowing Mal can do better it’s fair that you could say there’s a chance they can go on to better things down the line but I just can’t see it being with us so I’d be happy to take that risk. I don’t think we miss either of them when they’re not in the side, and I’d back us to find better replacements.

I think we need 2 new CB’s to push Rawson (whether we get 2 is another matter) with Perch as a back up to that so I don’t see much place for Sweeney really, and I think Benning is probably ready for a new challenge himself. Got Port Vale all over him.
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Re: Retained List

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:19 pm

bear 73 wrote:A lot of fans think Mansfield Town are rolling in cash, we have had a year of no crowds and just keeping the club ticking over, and we talk about paying players contracts up, while requiring 6 or 7 new players, it aint going to happen, this squad are having a chance to develop and some will improve and and some will move on, the academy will carry on with young players being brought into the squad to help the clubs finances, Any new players will have to add quality to the team and will be expensive, which will have to be offset by savings within the club
The budget will relate to a league 2 club with a 4000 fan base, with a pandemic next season could still have crowd restrictions


I think you’re wrong bear. We will be ‘having a go’ next season, no doubt.
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Re: Retained List

Postby kevin kents tasce » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:25 pm

James wrote:I really don't know what people have seen in Sweeney the past 2 seasons that warrants a new deal. I think there are better options out there personally.


He is 23 years old and already has over 100 league games. He is physically commanding and solid in aerial and one v one situations.

He was really good in Flitcrofts promotion chasing team, but (like most) has struggled for consistency during two poor seasons for the club.

He is left sided, which in itself is a positive as there are few true left sided CB’s around.

He is equal to most other good L2 CB’s and has time to develop. He is 2-3 years away from the age when most players hit their prime.

He is likely to attract a decent fee if sold.

Please name the better options and some reasoning why
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Re: Retained List

Postby BH_Stag » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:34 pm

My retained list would look like the below...

Keep (with the intention of a fair few making up squad roles, rather than starting XI);

Stone (kept as No.2 goalkeeper)
Rawson
Perch
Gordon
Lapslie
Clarke
Maris
Bowery
Law
Sinclair
Possibly Knowles as a youngster to bolster the squad.

I’d probably then sign Quinn.

Even though they are under contract I’d try and move on both Reid and Charsley - we can surely find better than them but I can’t see that happening with either.

I’d let go/try move on, Stech, Sweeney, Benning, O’Keeffe, James Clarke, along with Cook and Maynard who will be on their way.

McLaughlin, don’t have much opinion either way. See what’s out there first.
Last edited by BH_Stag on Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retained List

Postby James » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:36 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:
James wrote:I really don't know what people have seen in Sweeney the past 2 seasons that warrants a new deal. I think there are better options out there personally.


He is 23 years old and already has over 100 league games. He is physically commanding and solid in aerial and one v one situations.

He was really good in Flitcrofts promotion chasing team, but (like most) has struggled for consistency during two poor seasons for the club.

He is left sided, which in itself is a positive as there are few true left sided CB’s around.

He is equal to most other good L2 CB’s and has time to develop. He is 2-3 years away from the age when most players hit their prime.

He is likely to attract a decent fee if sold.

Please name the better options and some reasoning why


I see Sweeney a lot like Preston, fine in Flitcroft's back 3 system when he had a lot more support around him, but found out a little when paired in a back 2. I personally don't think he's as commanding as some make out, he's pretty slow and he's not very good on the ball either.

The left sided thing, i sort of get, although i'm really not sure how much of a difference it makes. Two right footed defenders are fine.

I can't name every centre back who would be available this summer who are better. I was maybe more meaning that i trust Clough and the team around him to find a stronger option.
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Re: Retained List

Postby yorkshire stag » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:44 pm

cloughie’s main problem is not who he keeps, it’s shifting the dross sat on two year deals to make room for better players
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Re: Retained List

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:28 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
bear 73 wrote:A lot of fans think Mansfield Town are rolling in cash, we have had a year of no crowds and just keeping the club ticking over, and we talk about paying players contracts up, while requiring 6 or 7 new players, it aint going to happen, this squad are having a chance to develop and some will improve and and some will move on, the academy will carry on with young players being brought into the squad to help the clubs finances, Any new players will have to add quality to the team and will be expensive, which will have to be offset by savings within the club
The budget will relate to a league 2 club with a 4000 fan base, with a pandemic next season could still have crowd restrictions


I think you’re wrong bear. We will be ‘having a go’ next season, no doubt.


It hasnt for the last few seasons.... I don't think the budget will be as big as it has been but Nigel will be able to sign who he wants.

The key difference is I think he will spend wisely and probably, although unknown to us, come under budget and deliver a better side.

Im not expecting us to be challenging for top 3 immediately, steady progress is the aim
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Re: Retained List

Postby chip63 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:43 pm

Is the wage cap still valid for next season? Not sure what rules apply at the moment.
I remember something about John Radford being the league 2 representative and I don't see how you can plan on wages against ticket sales and income when you have no idea what is going to happen.
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Re: Retained List

Postby bear 73 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:46 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
bear 73 wrote:A lot of fans think Mansfield Town are rolling in cash, we have had a year of no crowds and just keeping the club ticking over, and we talk about paying players contracts up, while requiring 6 or 7 new players, it aint going to happen, this squad are having a chance to develop and some will improve and and some will move on, the academy will carry on with young players being brought into the squad to help the clubs finances, Any new players will have to add quality to the team and will be expensive, which will have to be offset by savings within the club
The budget will relate to a league 2 club with a 4000 fan base, with a pandemic next season could still have crowd restrictions


I think you’re wrong bear. We will be ‘having a go’ next season, no doubt.

oh dear Musings i have gave you the wrong impression, i also expect a promotion push but not necessary promotion, we have seen this season where expectation exceeds reality.
a top ten finish would be a improvement, anything else a bonus.
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Re: Retained List

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:50 pm

So based on a combination of personal preference and the comments made by Clough and Sharp in the past here are my thoughts

Retain
Aiden Stone
Ryan Sweeney
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Stephen Mclaughlin
George Lapslie
Ollie Clarke
Harry Charsley
Kellan Gordon
George Maris
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Bowery
Jamie Reid
Jimmy Knowles
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
James Clarke

Release
Marek Stech
Corey O'Keefe.
Rolin Menayese
Mal Benning
Andy Cook
Nicky Maynard
Aaron O Driscoll
Jake Wright
Keaton Ward

If you look at the list, it has at least 3 home grown players plus potentially Caine to add to the list, James Clarke is also the same age as Sinclair and younger than Law so could be group as a youngster; 1 goalkeeper so 2 to add to that list unless he now considers our academy has someone good enough for next year to be third choice and 11 senior pros. For what Reid will cost us, i would keep him for one year rather than paying him off and the retention of McLaughlin and Gordon is based on what i think will happen.
I would only keep Perch if it is seen as a senior pro role to dip in and out of there team to cover in a utility role before moving to academy staff as a local based player.
All of this requires some excellent work in the transfer window to make us good enough for top 8
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Re: Retained List

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:58 pm

chip63 wrote:Is the wage cap still valid for next season? Not sure what rules apply at the moment


No. The League 1 and 2 clubs have reverted back to the Salary Cost Management Protocol.

League 1 - Cannot spend more than 60% of club's turnover on players' wages
League 2 - Cannot spend more than 55% of club's turnover on players' wages

Transfer embargo imposed if overspend.....which worked really well in the case of Bury.
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Re: Retained List

Postby chip63 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:02 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
chip63 wrote:Is the wage cap still valid for next season? Not sure what rules apply at the moment


No. The League 1 and 2 clubs have reverted back to the Salary Cost Management Protocol.

League 1 - Cannot spend more than 60% of club's turnover on players' wages
League 2 - Cannot spend more than 55% of club's turnover on players' wages

Transfer embargo imposed if overspend.....which worked really well in the case of Bury.


How is it possible to know next seasons turnover though, talks of testing or passports for covid etc..
This seasons turnover must be a oss for all clubs.
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Re: Retained List

Postby kevin kents tasce » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:04 pm

georgefostersbeard wrote:So based on a combination of personal preference and the comments made by Clough and Sharp in the past here are my thoughts

Retain
Aiden Stone
Ryan Sweeney
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Stephen Mclaughlin
George Lapslie
Ollie Clarke
Harry Charsley
Kellan Gordon
George Maris
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Bowery
Jamie Reid
Jimmy Knowles
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
James Clarke

Release
Marek Stech
Corey O'Keefe.
Rolin Menayese
Mal Benning
Andy Cook
Nicky Maynard
Aaron O Driscoll
Jake Wright
Keaton Ward



This is pretty much what I would go with.

Keeps the nucleus of a decent young squad a frees up some money to bring in better strikers and a keeper.

The only variation I would make is Reid. I would cash in or get him off the wage bill. He shouldn’t be starting and if it comes down to subs then Knowles, Sinclair and Caine should be used IMO.
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Re: Retained List

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:13 pm

You would only have room for 4 new "quality players" if that number of players are retained Bill. NC has said he likes to work with 3 x keepers, 17 x outfield players and 3 x young lads.

I can't see James Clarke being kept on as he is in the wilderness with Corey O'Keeffe.
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Re: Retained List

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:20 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:You would only have room for 4 new "quality players" if that number of players are retained Bill. NC has said he likes to work with 3 x keepers, 17 x outfield players and 3 x young lads.

I can't see James Clarke being kept on as he is in the wilderness with Corey O'Keeffe.


I had thought i heard 17 to 18 players and so if it is, I see James Clarke as preferable over Reid.
Clarke is only 20 has been on the bench. personally I would lose Reid out of the two if pushed as I have always seen something in Clarke when he has played
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Re: Retained List

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:24 pm

James Clarke could count as a young lad but I think NC will release him as he has not been played and we have too many right backs.
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Re: Retained List

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:46 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:James Clarke could count as a young lad but I think NC will release him as he has not been played and we have too many right backs.


Accept that, and there desire to keep him is based on wanting him to succeed rather a sound business decision.
Reid has more of a pedigree from the national league and so it would make sense to either lose both or keep Reid for one year. A lot of depends on who Simon Clough, Sharp and Crosby have uncovered
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Re: Retained List

Postby BH_Stag » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:48 pm

georgefostersbeard wrote:So based on a combination of personal preference and the comments made by Clough and Sharp in the past here are my thoughts

Retain
Aiden Stone
Ryan Sweeney
Farrend Rawson
James Perch
Stephen Mclaughlin
George Lapslie
Ollie Clarke
Harry Charsley
Kellan Gordon
George Maris
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Bowery
Jamie Reid
Jimmy Knowles
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
James Clarke

Release
Marek Stech
Corey O'Keefe.
Rolin Menayese
Mal Benning
Andy Cook
Nicky Maynard
Aaron O Driscoll
Jake Wright
Keaton Ward

If you look at the list, it has at least 3 home grown players plus potentially Caine to add to the list, James Clarke is also the same age as Sinclair and younger than Law so could be group as a youngster; 1 goalkeeper so 2 to add to that list unless he now considers our academy has someone good enough for next year to be third choice and 11 senior pros. For what Reid will cost us, i would keep him for one year rather than paying him off and the retention of McLaughlin and Gordon is based on what i think will happen.
I would only keep Perch if it is seen as a senior pro role to dip in and out of there team to cover in a utility role before moving to academy staff as a local based player.
All of this requires some excellent work in the transfer window to make us good enough for top 8


The retained list here just feels too long to me for a side that’s been poor this season. The players have picked up under Clough, but now the bounce has gone we’ve only won 2 of our last 16 games. If we want to move from languishing around in the bottom 7 to the top 7 I think it will require more change. I’m not sure moving forward with 17 of this squad, albeit some younger, is the way to go.

I see you’ve gone with that partially on the sound bites from interviews though so I think the list will be longer than people’s ideals.
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Re: Retained List

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:12 pm

BH_Stag wrote:
The retained list here just feels too long to me for a side that’s been poor this season. The players have picked up under Clough, but now the bounce has gone we’ve only won 2 of our last 16 games. If we want to move from languishing around in the bottom 7 to the top 7 I think it will require more change. I’m not sure moving forward with 17 of this squad, albeit some younger, is the way to go.

I see you’ve gone with that partially on the sound bites from interviews though so I think the list will be longer than people’s ideals.


If I had my way it would be:
Retain
Aiden Stone
Ryan Sweeney
Farrend Rawson
George Lapslie
Ollie Clarke
Harry Charsley
Kellan Gordon
George Maris
Stephen Quinn
Jordan Bowery
Jamie Reid
Jimmy Knowles
Tyrese Sinclair
Jason Law
James Clarke
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Re: Retained List

Postby chip63 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:38 pm

Retain but retrain.
Gordon, Rawson, Sweeney, Stone and Bowery.
There is something about Rawson and Sweeney that could be a good paring, they were exceptional against Cheltenham in the cup.
Just because Gordon has signed a new contract does not mean he won't be released if he doesn't learn.
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Re: Retained List

Postby georgefostersbeard » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:09 pm

chip63 wrote:Retain but retrain.
Gordon, Rawson, Sweeney, Stone and Bowery.
There is something about Rawson and Sweeney that could be a good paring, they were exceptional against Cheltenham in the cup.
Just because Gordon has signed a new contract does not mean he won't be released if he doesn't learn.


I would be interested to see Rawson and Sweeney in a strong back line behind our midfield with more of an outlet upfront. I don't think it is a coincidence that they looked stronger yesterday with Clarke, Maris and Quinn playing well in midfield and Sinclair and Bowery holding the ball up when it went up front
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Re: Retained List

Postby wardy12345 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:33 pm

Anyone thought that most of the squad will still be here with a few additions
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