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Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:41 am

gazza1988 wrote:
Rob wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:I think the last player that became a semi regular for a season and a half was Jack Thomas.

I’ve not seen anything to suggest Smith is as good as Jack was for that first spell he had in the team.


Where is Jack now? What suggests Smith is better is the level he is currently playing. A lot of unsubstantiated rhetoric on here, plus point scoring from a sad old man, but the bottom line is all I want to see is our youth system bringing in players for the first team squad, not bringing them on for National League sides. I think it was worth keeping Smith on loan at Alty, given how well he has done there, and looking at him over the summer. If the Academy is not costing us money, then fine, if it is, then we need to see some sort of end product for the investment. JR is not going to bankroll the club forever and when he moves on we need a thriving youth set up to protect the future of our club.


Rob, how soon do you want this to happen?

We were category 4 and only achieved category 3 in the summer.

The main difference between the 2 is a category 4 model is late development, so u17 and over. Category 3 and above is from u9 onwards. Its players through these age groups who generally do better in the long run. Our youth teamers are cast offs from category 3, 2 or 1 Academies who are willing to commute here. Some are from lower down, like Jason Law but not many.


Well I think we need to have some sort of feed into the first team squad before JR leaves. When we no longer have his money to bankroll him many will lament the fact we did not encourage progress from within. I think NC is the sort of manager who will, once he has established himself here, look at the youth structure. Maybe broomo can confirm whether or not he did that at Burton and whether they had any players who came through their youth team?
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:53 am

So we have a poster who thinks JR should bankroll players who have consistently shown they are not up to parr on the hope they may come good at some point in their careers. And he says that he is trying to preserve JR’s money!. Well that is a funny way of going about saving money but doesn’t surprise me coming from someone who is obviously deluded and has no concept of logic.

Keeping Alistair would be the cruelest thing you could do to a young player as you are denying him the chance to start afresh with a new club. Do you think we would give him another contract in June and if so for how long? How much of JR’s money should we pay him whist he languishes in the reserves without a hope of even getting on the bench? What will happen to his career while he’s not playing competitive games at any type of decent level? Should we just loan him out to a club lower down the pyramid while we hopefully climb to the next level? How much would he need to improve to then return and become a regular player in our team? Maybe we should loan him out to a premiership team and get them to play him as he will develop even quicker.

Rob your background is showing through as it is obvious you can’t make a decision based on facts and just want to squander not only JR’s money but, more importantly, a young man’s life chances. Once more you show your prejudice against the older generation with your barbed comments but try having a look in the mirror. You may just see your grandad there as you are no spring chicken yourself but you certainly haven’t become wiser with age and may want to check for early onset dementia.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby yorkshire stag » Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:52 am

wow someone got outta bed the wrong side this morning
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby PEAR CIDER » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:09 am

Im totally with Sandy on this one. Ali was never in a million years going to make it near the first team any time soon. He has been with us a long time and never looked like breaking in. Many a manager has seen this.

Letting him have a crack at first team football albeit down the leagues is the best thing for everyone, considering we also have a sell on clause.

every time I have seen him play, I've not rated him. Do I hope he does well, yes of course
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:54 am

yorkshire stag wrote:wow someone got outta bed the wrong side this morning


No Yorkie it’s just another example of personal abuse I get from this no mark. I’m the sad old man he refers to in his delusional rant so just getting my own back. Of course he still thinks he’s right on every subject under the sun especially when it comes to telling everyone they are wrong. It’s just a pity he hasn’t got the ability to see shades of grey and think of consequences occasionally.

There is no doubt this is the best move for Alistair and gives him the chance to make it later in his career. Rob can’t see the club’s own ambitions and thinks we will be in league 2 forever while we wait for young Smith to develop into a bog standard player and then become the mainstay of our side. But I suppose you have to have a degree of forward logical thinking to have that ability which he clearly hasn’t got.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:33 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:wow someone got outta bed the wrong side this morning


No mate, this is what he is, someone with issues :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:38 pm

PEAR CIDER wrote:Im totally with Sandy on this one. Ali was never in a million years going to make it near the first team any time soon. He has been with us a long time and never looked like breaking in. Many a manager has seen this.

Letting him have a crack at first team football albeit down the leagues is the best thing for everyone, considering we also have a sell on clause.

every time I have seen him play, I've not rated him. Do I hope he does well, yes of course


Well I guess time will tell, I have never said he should have returned from loan, all I have said is that given how well he is doing we should have left him out on loan until the end of the season and then had another look, I don't think that is unreasonable. I agree he is not ready for our first team and wasn't when he played earlier in the season but he has done very well at Alty and given a long run of very competitive games is clearly thriving. It is interesting the club insisted on a sell on clause, entirely the correct thing to do and a clear indication that they think there is a chance he will go further with his career, which like you, I hope he does. Anyway, at least you have the decency to enter constructive discussion :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby marker_mtfc95 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:38 pm

Get a room :lol: :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby garlic » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:04 pm

I`m with Rob on this, so many posters on here say so and so is not good enough with absolutely no evidence to substantiate their claim. How many back to back league games did Alistair Smith actually start? If none, then what chance id he get to find his feet and get the confidence to develop his game? Others point out that back in the day the youngsters like Bap, Lawrence, Leroy were better, sorry how do you know they were better when the current lot haver never been given the opportunity that Bap and co were given to establish themselves? I think a lot of people on here need reminding of one very important fact, £6million debt, and yet you still want JR to fund your addiction to new signings.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:14 pm

garlic wrote:I`m with Rob on this, so many posters on here say so and so is not good enough with absolutely no evidence to substantiate their claim. How many back to back league games did Alistair Smith actually start? If none, then what chance id he get to find his feet and get the confidence to develop his game? Others point out that back in the day the youngsters like Bap, Lawrence, Leroy were better, sorry how do you know they were better when the current lot haver never been given the opportunity that Bap and co were given to establish themselves? I think a lot of people on here need reminding of one very important fact, £6million debt, and yet you still want JR to fund your addiction to new signings.


There may be some truth to what you say, but the fact is that it’s not us who have decided he’s not good enough, it’s the manager, based on one game and a few training sessions.

Our opinion is irrelevant, just a point of discussion, as is yours. Clough agrees he’s not currently good enough for his team. He didn’t give him back to back starts to try and let him find his feet, he just moved him on. Because it’s a cutthroat business. If he’s good enough he’ll bounce back, if he’s not he won’t.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby kevin kents tasce » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:55 pm

It’s not just one manager Musings, it’s the last three managers. He is a young player and will no doubt get better, but I’m not convinced he’ll get back to league level and definitely not to the level we are aspiring to.

In the few first team appearances he made for
Is, he always looked well out his depth to me, none more so than the Orient game last season.

I said this previously, but you can compare him to other players of a similar age at our club and he is way behind them in terms of ability
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:56 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:It’s not just one manager Musings, it’s the last three managers. He is a young player and will no doubt get better, but I’m not convinced he’ll get back to league level and definitely not to the level we are aspiring to.

In the few first team appearances he made for
Is, he always looked well out his depth to me, none more so than the Orient game last season.

I said this previously, but you can compare him to other players of a similar age at our club and he is way behind them in terms of ability


I agree, for what it’s worth.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Dan » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:29 pm

Played centre back tonight and has scored! Winning 2-0.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Spiritater » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:45 pm

Well done Ali, I bet he's loving it at Alty.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Sedgwick » Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:14 am

One of their fans says he's making a big difference, getting them playing and cant believe a team with a bin man is doing so well.

If Ali carries this form on he will get noticed

Hope they can go up and go full time
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:01 pm

Sedgwick wrote:One of their fans says he's making a big difference, getting them playing and cant believe a team with a bin man is doing so well.

If Ali carries this form on he will get noticed

Hope they can go up and go full time


I've always had a soft spot for Alty, probably going back to their cup exploits many years ago. They are clearly punching above their weight, which is always good to see. No surprise Alistair is doing well given a long run of games. I believe he has played in defence, midfield and up front!
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:41 pm

Alty, with Smith in the centre of midfield, beat top of the table Torquay tonight, some posts will not age well on here I suspect.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:54 pm

Rob wrote:Alty, with Smith in the centre of midfield, beat top of the table Torquay tonight, some posts will not age well on here I suspect.


He’s in the right place to develop Rob. That wasn’t going to happen here where he was 9th choice centre mid.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:03 am

MTFCMusings wrote:
Rob wrote:Alty, with Smith in the centre of midfield, beat top of the table Torquay tonight, some posts will not age well on here I suspect.


He’s in the right place to develop Rob. That wasn’t going to happen here where he was 9th choice centre mid.


I agree, it was a great loan move but I believe he will prove to be the one that got away, we should have left him on loan. He is shining at the top end of the Natonal League and is the driving force behind his clubs unexpected league position. Time will tell and of course he may yet not make it back to the EFL, but we now have no say at all, I absolutely see another Gregory here.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby kevin kents tasce » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:04 am

Go on then Rob, humour me.

Who from Clarke, Quinn, Lapslie, Maris and Charsley was he going to replace next season?
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:05 am

Rob wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Rob wrote:Alty, with Smith in the centre of midfield, beat top of the table Torquay tonight, some posts will not age well on here I suspect.


He’s in the right place to develop Rob. That wasn’t going to happen here where he was 9th choice centre mid.


I agree, it was a great loan move but I believe he will prove to be the one that got away, we should have left him on loan. He is shining at the top end of the Natonal League and is the driving force behind his clubs unexpected league position. Time will tell and of course he may yet not make it back to the EFL, but we now have no say at all, I absolutely see another Gregory here.


Like you say, we will see. I haven’t see him play for Altrincham so no idea how influential he is for them. It’s Clough who has made the decision though, rather than posters on here, so ultimately he disagreed with you too :lol:
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:07 am

kevin kents tasce wrote:Go on then Rob, humour me.

Who from Clarke, Quinn, Lapslie, Maris and Charsley was he going to replace next season?


Yes midfield is a strong area for us right now, which is why it was right he went on loan.

We'll see ......
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Rob » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:22 am

MTFCMusings wrote:
Rob wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Rob wrote:Alty, with Smith in the centre of midfield, beat top of the table Torquay tonight, some posts will not age well on here I suspect.


He’s in the right place to develop Rob. That wasn’t going to happen here where he was 9th choice centre mid.


I agree, it was a great loan move but I believe he will prove to be the one that got away, we should have left him on loan. He is shining at the top end of the Natonal League and is the driving force behind his clubs unexpected league position. Time will tell and of course he may yet not make it back to the EFL, but we now have no say at all, I absolutely see another Gregory here.


Like you say, we will see. I haven’t see him play for Altrincham so no idea how influential he is for them. It’s Clough who has made the decision though, rather than posters on here, so ultimately he disagreed with you too :lol:


Yep, I trust NC more than me too :lol: However, at the risk of repeating myself, I think we've dropped a ball here. Good luck to the lad anyway, I do know an Alty fan (some might remember him from postings on a previous Stagsnet incarnation) who has told me he has been absolutely superb.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:11 am

Dan wrote:Played centre back tonight and has scored! Winning 2-0.


I did float the idea that Alistair has the size and skill to possibly make a centre half. He seemed to want too much time on the ball when playing in midfield for the Stags. He just needs to fill out a bit more.

All great experience for him and much better than being 9th choice midfield player sat in the stands. He will be 22 in May and it's time for him to try and kick on and become a regular first team player.

I think this pandemic will mean that more and more quality players will be tumbling down the leagues which makes it very difficult for young lads like Alistair. The next generation will also be coming through. I think we have two or three 16 year olds now playing in our youth team.
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Re: Alistair Smith joins Altrincham permanently

Postby broomo » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:22 am

Rob wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Rob wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:I think the last player that became a semi regular for a season and a half was Jack Thomas.

I’ve not seen anything to suggest Smith is as good as Jack was for that first spell he had in the team.


Where is Jack now? What suggests Smith is better is the level he is currently playing. A lot of unsubstantiated rhetoric on here, plus point scoring from a sad old man, but the bottom line is all I want to see is our youth system bringing in players for the first team squad, not bringing them on for National League sides. I think it was worth keeping Smith on loan at Alty, given how well he has done there, and looking at him over the summer. If the Academy is not costing us money, then fine, if it is, then we need to see some sort of end product for the investment. JR is not going to bankroll the club forever and when he moves on we need a thriving youth set up to protect the future of our club.


Rob, how soon do you want this to happen?

We were category 4 and only achieved category 3 in the summer.

The main difference between the 2 is a category 4 model is late development, so u17 and over. Category 3 and above is from u9 onwards. Its players through these age groups who generally do better in the long run. Our youth teamers are cast offs from category 3, 2 or 1 Academies who are willing to commute here. Some are from lower down, like Jason Law but not many.


Well I think we need to have some sort of feed into the first team squad before JR leaves. When we no longer have his money to bankroll him many will lament the fact we did not encourage progress from within. I think NC is the sort of manager who will, once he has established himself here, look at the youth structure. Maybe broomo can confirm whether or not he did that at Burton and whether they had any players who came through their youth team?


He established the Academy at Burton when all they had previously was a partnership with Staffordshire College (Brayford came through that having been released by Stoke) He hired Pat Lyons and Darren Wassall who both did a great job before going on with Nigel to overhaul the Derby Academy which has produced an incredible number of first teamers.

The Academy at Burton is limited by the fact they have no digs and the kids have to pay their own travel expenses, which typically limits them to lads who live an hour away. Even with those limited resources they really started a conveyor belt where 2 lads a season broke through.

Marcus Harness went to Portsmouth for a million quid and is currently tearing up League One and looks plenty good enough to step up again. Joe Sbarra, Ben Fox and Reece Hutchinson were all out of the Academy and this season they sold Teddy Sharman-Lowe to Chelsea for a hefty chunk plus add ons. Teddy was/is the England under 17 keeper.

There's a really good crop coming through, young Gallagher has just broken into the first team as well. Remains to be seen whether JFH carries on promoting the young lads. So far so good but he's also just signed 9 first team squad members so some of the younger lads may have to wait longer than hoped.

Its still not the best funded Academy but I think seeing what it's produced investment will grow.

No doubt about it, Nige will focus on improving what's already here. He trusts the young uns and a big part of his recruitment pitch to parents is they will get a chance. He's got such a good track record to point to at every club he's been at, parents trust him based on that.
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