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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:49 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:Has anyone got the LMA contacts list? Dan from Mansfield reckons stats are a load of rubbish so I want to alert all the managers that their whole recruitment process is flawed.

Whilst I’m at it, if anyone has the CEO contact list for every bookie on the planet, I’ll let them know too.

What’s that you ask? How have clubs like Leicester and Brentford massively overachieved in both the league and their transfer business?

Clearly by pure fluke and nothing to do with data driven activity


Instead of being sarcastic why not look at my points rather than who posted it, and tell me where I’m wrong. You like doing that on here don’t you?
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:54 pm

Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:55 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.


I didn’t say that though did I? Read it again.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby kevin kents tasce » Thu Jan 07, 2021 1:59 pm

Honestly Dan, having read thread after thread after thread of you using illogical fallacies to extend arguments without any evidence at all, I just can’t be bothered to debate you.

The fact that every major sports team and bookmaker use the data you are decrying to inform multi-million pound decisions is evidence enough that you don’t know what you are talking about.

The tv / iFollow data is just there to enhance the viewing experience. If you don’t enjoy it, then ignore it
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:01 pm

Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.


I didn’t say that though did I? Read it again.


You said people take them as accurate at the end of a game. If you’re talking about all of us outside the professional game, then it doesn’t really matter too much does it? Anyone who has any serious interest will have access to the correct stats.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:11 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:Honestly Dan, having read thread after thread after thread of you using illogical fallacies to extend arguments without any evidence at all, I just can’t be bothered to debate you.

The fact that every major sports team and bookmaker use the data you are decrying to inform multi-million pound decisions is evidence enough that you don’t know what you are talking about.

The tv / iFollow data is just there to enhance the viewing experience. If you don’t enjoy it, then ignore it


So you’re full of it as usual then. Surely with you being an expert at everything like commentating, being a groundsman, goalkeeper coaching etc you’d be able to put me in my place as well. I thought it would be a piece of cake for someone like you :roll:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:12 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.


I didn’t say that though did I? Read it again.


You said people take them as accurate at the end of a game. If you’re talking about all of us outside the professional game, then it doesn’t really matter too much does it? Anyone who has any serious interest will have access to the correct stats.


That’s what I said, what’s the point in putting them up there when they are wrong. It’s pointless. Just like the majority of stats they list.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby The One » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:36 pm

Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.


I didn’t say that though did I? Read it again.


You said people take them as accurate at the end of a game. If you’re talking about all of us outside the professional game, then it doesn’t really matter too much does it? Anyone who has any serious interest will have access to the correct stats.


That’s what I said, what’s the point in putting them up there when they are wrong. It’s pointless. Just like the majority of stats they list.


Agree with you there, its like fake news.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:40 pm

The One wrote:
Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:Where you are wrong Dan is that nobody involved in football at a professional level takes the stats shown on iFollow at the end of the game.


I didn’t say that though did I? Read it again.


You said people take them as accurate at the end of a game. If you’re talking about all of us outside the professional game, then it doesn’t really matter too much does it? Anyone who has any serious interest will have access to the correct stats.


That’s what I said, what’s the point in putting them up there when they are wrong. It’s pointless. Just like the majority of stats they list.


Agree with you there, its like fake news.


Exactly. Especially when it says goalkeeper saves 100% for both keepers when I saw with my own eyes that Stech fumbled the ball for their goal. But of course we’re the ones who are wrong because KKT says so :lol:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby kevin kents tasce » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:07 pm

The Ad Hominem fallacy in full effect
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:15 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:The Ad Hominem fallacy in full effect


You’d know all about that because you do it on every one of my posts just like you have done here.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby I am Spartacus » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:15 pm

All, base anything you read about Statistics upon what the great intellectual sage of our time said about them. Bear this in mind and never rely on them at all, too much or even when drunk to make a point.

“75% of Statistics are made up”, Vic Reeves, comedian.

Remembering though that the figure of 75 % he quotes was made up, puts it all into perspective.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Wh_Stag » Thu Jan 07, 2021 3:50 pm

Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?


They give a rough idea I suppose? Don’t know, I can’t answer that.


They’re given as proper facts/stats at the end of a game and people just take them as accurate. Well most people ;)


I don't know the game, possibly Sunderland? but we won and I can remeber it said we had no chances or shots on target and their keeper had 100% save rate or something totally bonkers along those lines.

Fotmob stats seem to be very detailed and again at league two level I'm not sure who's sat watching or being employed to count/write down how many touches George Maris left boot has had in the opponents 6 yard box etc :lol:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:09 pm

Wh_Stag wrote:
Dan wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:That’s what I’m saying. Why put the stats on immediately after the game when we know they’re going to be wrong?


They give a rough idea I suppose? Don’t know, I can’t answer that.


They’re given as proper facts/stats at the end of a game and people just take them as accurate. Well most people ;)


I don't know the game, possibly Sunderland? but we won and I can remeber it said we had no chances or shots on target and their keeper had 100% save rate or something totally bonkers along those lines.

Fotmob stats seem to be very detailed and again at league two level I'm not sure who's sat watching or being employed to count/write down how many touches George Maris left boot has had in the opponents 6 yard box etc :lol:


Exactly. There’s no way it’s going to be as detailed as people make out. When I’ve been to games this season and looked up in the press area there’s the same faces in the same places every week. Where do these people sit? I assume they do go to the game or do they sit at home doing it?! It’s just ridiculous to think that someone has logged that James Perch touched the ball 24 times and in which areas of the pitch on his “heat map” :lol: Now if you told me that each club analyst does that then I would believe you because that’s how they help the management team out. But we don’t get to see those stats usually.
Last edited by Dan on Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:12 pm

They don’t need to be at the games Dan. Every game is available to watch on iFollow. Just because you refuse to believe it’s possible, it clearly is possible, as it’s done for every game.

As I’ve said higher up and you keep choosing to ignore, every game is reviewed afterwards to ensure things are correct, at which time games can be paused if necessary so that they can keep up with things. It’s really not as complicated as you seem to believe it to be.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Wh_Stag » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:47 pm

I know BBC stats used to say "provided by press association" same with the match report that was always quite generic

I briefly worked for about a season at a football club and then a couple months with a premiership team doing odd media jobs and each match had two to three people watching and logging the stats best they could. I don't know if they were employed by the clubs or league. I can honestly remember one young lad having a weird keyboard like a big calculator that he could quickly tap to log passes shots etc just the basics, took an old gent who looked freezing a cup of tea once at HT and he said he was doing the stats and was sat rewatching the game through half time on an Ipad but only ever saw him at a game twice.

So im sure larger clubs do have in depth and accurate stats but at our level its most likely guess work if done by one person just watching the feed. Wouldn't surprise me if its some young junior sat at the side of the mixer/live editor when the game is happening live.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Rigsby » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:59 pm

As the phrase goes: "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics "
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Curry 9 Brace 7 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:09 pm

Dan the ludite. Please don't mention him , you know who. The guy who failed miserably, twice. :D
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Curry 9 Brace 7 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:13 pm

Luddite. Yes, I know. Spelling. Concentrate. :mtfc:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Bros » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:31 pm

Can you please change the title of this thread to the xg debate so I don't have to trawl through the arguments to see if there is any comment about the match. Hopefully they will continue the discussion on here rather than it spilling over to the Cheltenham thread
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Dan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:52 pm

Bros wrote:Can you please change the title of this thread to the xg debate so I don't have to trawl through the arguments to see if there is any comment about the match. Hopefully they will continue the discussion on here rather than it spilling over to the Cheltenham thread


I’m afraid you’ll have it in every match thread you watch.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:19 pm

Bros wrote:Can you please change the title of this thread to the xg debate so I don't have to trawl through the arguments to see if there is any comment about the match. Hopefully they will continue the discussion on here rather than it spilling over to the Cheltenham thread


If you read it you’d know it wasn’t a debate about xG :lol:
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby part time pete » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:42 pm

Dan,


Surely a ‘save’ is when the ball would have entered the goal without anybody else touching the ball. Wasn’t your example of Stech’s fumble a cross and not a shot on target.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby Spiritater » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:54 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
Spiritater wrote:Thankfully Non Stech's mistake didn't cost us. Had City levelled at the end which thry nearly did I wonder if folk would've been so quick to defend his lack of command of his six yard box.

Belter

:lol: Yep as expected another intelligent, eloquent and well thought out reply from the board bully.
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Re: Salford scorefred sponsored by Three buses.

Postby bellwhiff » Thu Jan 07, 2021 10:10 pm

Spiritater wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:
Spiritater wrote:Thankfully Non Stech's mistake didn't cost us. Had City levelled at the end which thry nearly did I wonder if folk would've been so quick to defend his lack of command of his six yard box.

Belter

:lol: Yep as expected another intelligent, eloquent and well thought out reply from the board bully.

Why call him that ? You go on about eloquence and lack of intelligence and come out with that bilge
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