{ the forum }
 
Stagsnet wishes you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Get Flicker in

Discuss all things Stags and Football League Two, and share stuff using our BBCodes.
Forum rules
Please read the Posting Rules before participating. Posting on the forums is subject to adhering to these.
Also, see the Guidelines for Posting. Moderators may sometimes tidy posts which do not follow these customs.

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:03 pm

sunray wrote:It's down to the Board to hope Coughlin can pull us away from relegation risk or make a change

He looks and sounds a defeated man and you suspect that is effecting the players confidence. Two lucky wins and all will change.

The Board were responsible for appointing Dempster and giving no support, appointing Coughlin on the back of one seasons success, appointing Sharpe on his trading record in the transfer market who sold our best two players. So lets not put all the blame on Coughlin.

Forget the promotion chase and give him four more games to get some solid results. Relegation would be down to the Board but they are not going to take responsiblity.



You say Sharpe sold our best two players, I assume you mean Hamilton and Rose?

Both had a year left on their contracts, they weren't going to sign a new contract either. We had to sell them other wise they'd have walked away for nowt and everyone would have moaned why we didn't cash in on them!
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6756
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:07 pm

And like I said before. Evans didn't achieve anything that could be described as successful. He got successful results but in the end it all amounted to having nothing to show for it. Flitcroft has something to show for it a 4th placed finish and a play off place, albeit a failed play off place but a play off place nonetheless. There's better managers for us in the past than both Evans and Flitcroft but their win% isn't as high as Evans' was.

People often discount the psychological effect Evans leaving out of the blue, with 12 games to go, had on the side.

Let me ask you this, hypothetically of course. Had Evans stayed and we stayed where we were and lost in the play offs would you have wanted him sacked? I wouldn't have, for the same reason I didn't want Flitcroft sacked, because we had improved on what came before.
post meanings:
I know what I'm doing
Just guessing
You're an idiot and I'm poking you with a stick
User avatar
gazza1988
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:23 pm
Location: Beeston, Nottingham

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Dan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:18 pm

gazza1988 wrote:And like I said before. Evans didn't achieve anything that could be described as successful. He got successful results


I don't know whether to laugh or cry :lol:


gazza1988 wrote:Flitcroft has something to show for it a 4th placed finish and a play off place, albeit a failed play off place but a play off place nonetheless.


Yes he got the sack & deservedly so.


gazza1988 wrote:There's better managers for us in the past than both Evans and Flitcroft but their win% isn't as high as Evans' was.


Then they aren't as good as Evans then!


gazza1988 wrote:People often discount the psychological effect Evans leaving out of the blue, with 12 games to go, had on the side.

Let me ask you this, hypothetically of course. Had Evans stayed and we stayed where we were and lost in the play offs would you have wanted him sacked? I wouldn't have, for the same reason I didn't want Flitcroft sacked, because we had improved on what came before.


No one is disputing the effect it had on him leaving and I still hate him for doing it.

It depends on how we'd have failed. If he'd have done a Flitcroft then yes I would've wanted him gone. Had we been pipped to 3rd place by a point or 2 I would've given him another chance. Had we lost in the play offs then I'm not quite sure where I would stand on that.
Dan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 8181
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby northern stag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:28 pm

When I think of rating Steve Evans, I cant get past the dreadful signings he made in Diamond, Mirfin, Anderson, Atkinson, Angol and Butcher, all at great cost with almost nothing in return
northern stag
Reserve Team
Reserve Team
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sweden Stag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:11 pm

Add Flitcroft's January 2019 transfer window: Turner, Ajose, Jones, Grant, all of them achieving nothing special = failures IMO. Out of those, Ajose missed a crucial spot-kick at Port Vale when Tyler Walker was suspended.
Stockholm, July 4, 2008, 15.00 GMT. Good news came, K.H. gone. March 1, 2012. Ground purchased.
Sweden Stag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:14 pm

Sweden Stag wrote:Add Flitcroft's January 2019 transfer window: Turner, Ajose, Jones, Grant, all of them achieving nothing special = failures IMO. Out of those, Ajose missed a crucial spot-kick at Port Vale when Tyler Walker was suspended.


Turner was good
Ajose was good on paper but had hardly played and he's done nothing since
Jones was a disaster replacement for white
And grant didn't seem interested

January could have been the chance to add but instead it was a step backwards
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sweden Stag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:42 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
Sweden Stag wrote:Add Flitcroft's January 2019 transfer window: Turner, Ajose, Jones, Grant, all of them achieving nothing special = failures IMO. Out of those, Ajose missed a crucial spot-kick at Port Vale when Tyler Walker was suspended.


Turner was good
Ajose was good on paper but had hardly played and he's done nothing since
Jones was a disaster replacement for white
And grant didn't seem interested

January could have been the chance to add but instead it was a step backwards


Definitely. Letting Elšnik go was also poor judgement by DF before getting the above mentioned players in. IMO the additions of Ajose, Jones and Grant upset our rhythm as did the injury to Hayden White (and a few months earlier, Olejnik). The January 2019 transfer window dealings by DF warranted for me Stagsnet rating 5 at highest.
Stockholm, July 4, 2008, 15.00 GMT. Good news came, K.H. gone. March 1, 2012. Ground purchased.
Sweden Stag
First Team
First Team
 
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Karlstad, Sweden

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:50 pm

Sweden Stag wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:
Sweden Stag wrote:Add Flitcroft's January 2019 transfer window: Turner, Ajose, Jones, Grant, all of them achieving nothing special = failures IMO. Out of those, Ajose missed a crucial spot-kick at Port Vale when Tyler Walker was suspended.


Turner was good
Ajose was good on paper but had hardly played and he's done nothing since
Jones was a disaster replacement for white
And grant didn't seem interested

January could have been the chance to add but instead it was a step backwards


Definitely. Letting Elšnik go was also poor judgement by DF before getting the above mentioned players in. IMO the additions of Ajose, Jones and Grant upset our rhythm as did the injury to Hayden White (and a few months earlier, Olejnik). The January 2019 transfer window dealings by DF warranted for me Stagsnet rating 5 at highest.



You say letting elsnik go was poor by DF, but didn't derby basically tell us we had to buy him otherwise they'd recall him?
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6756
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:52 pm

So it's the how not the why? Flitcroft failed because we lost key players to injuries. We lost olejnik to a training injury the rest were in games.

You say you would give Evans another try if he missed out by "1 or 2 points" Flitcroft missed out by 2 points and now you're saying he shouldn't have been given another try. Double standards or what?
post meanings:
I know what I'm doing
Just guessing
You're an idiot and I'm poking you with a stick
User avatar
gazza1988
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:23 pm
Location: Beeston, Nottingham

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Dan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:03 pm

gazza1988 wrote:So it's the how not the why? Flitcroft failed because we lost key players to injuries. We lost olejnik to a training injury the rest were in games.

You say you would give Evans another try if he missed out by "1 or 2 points" Flitcroft missed out by 2 points and now you're saying he shouldn't have been given another try. Double standards or what?


Not if you read my post properly no. :roll:
Dan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 8181
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby yorkstag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:33 pm

The simple fact is we would not now be where we are if we had not sacked DF
yorkstag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1707
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Conker » Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:44 pm

northern stag wrote:When I think of rating Steve Evans, I cant get past the dreadful signings he made in Diamond, Mirfin, Anderson, Atkinson, Angol and Butcher, all at great cost with almost nothing in return


I can fully understand that argument, he definitely made some poor signings that hindered the club after he went to China.

That being said, I hate when people use the ‘we were going to implode before he left’ what a ridiculously lazy argument, with raspberry all to back it up with.
Conker
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:17 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:42 pm

yorkstag wrote:The simple fact is we would not now be where we are if we had not sacked DF


I don’t think that is necessarily true.

In his last 15 league games, Mr Flitcroft’s side gained 18 points. That equates to approximately 55 points over a full season which is nowhere near promotion form. Take away Tyler Walker’s goals (as he wasn’t coming back here), combine it with the injuries and discipline problems Mr Dempster had to contend with and we could easily have been in as much trouble.

Flitcroft supporters insist we were fine but the truth is, the decline started under Flitcroft and his last third of the season was hardly above relegation points return.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
Sandy Pate Best Stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3737
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:37 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 6:53 pm

I doubt Flitcroft would have seen Walker go and not replace him. Taking away goals scored by a loan player to try and prove a point is unfair.. Perhaps Maynard would still have come with DF in charge replace a leading goalscorer with a leading goalscorer. Tyler scored 22(3 penalties) and Maynard 20 (0 penalties) so are fairly close (note: I'm not saying that penalties don't count but Maynard would likely be our penalty taker so would have had that opportunity, O'Shea took Bury's penalties) Maybe he could have convinced Mayor to join as well.

It's been done to death but our poor form coincided with our plan B, in Danny Rose, getting squished at Newport.

We are all talking hypothetical at this point but saying DF would have got us nearly relegated is as likely as Evans staying with us and falling out of the play offs and not winning a game. Most if not all of the signings mentioned above for Evans DF still had on taking up the budget. Who knows who he could have signed. Like I said all hypothetical but I doubt we would have crashed that hard.
post meanings:
I know what I'm doing
Just guessing
You're an idiot and I'm poking you with a stick
User avatar
gazza1988
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 7059
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:23 pm
Location: Beeston, Nottingham

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby sunray » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:30 pm

Bobbystagsfan:
You say Sharpe sold our best two players, I assume you mean Hamilton and Rose?

Both had a year left on their contracts, they weren't going to sign a new contract either. We had to sell them other wise they'd have walked away for nowt and everyone would have moaned why we didn't cash in on them


Where is the ambition - just developing players to sell on. If we drop out of the league this season the money we got for those two players will look like short change.

And don't forget Sharpe was DofF when we made the summer signings
sunray
Subs Bench
Subs Bench
 
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:09 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby yorkshire stag » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:34 pm

This thread is just bonkers Flip Flop was most defiantly NOT the answer

he ran outta ideas fgs Move on
Our time will come
User avatar
yorkshire stag
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 10388
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:35 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:39 pm

sunray wrote:Bobbystagsfan:
You say Sharpe sold our best two players, I assume you mean Hamilton and Rose?

Both had a year left on their contracts, they weren't going to sign a new contract either. We had to sell them other wise they'd have walked away for nowt and everyone would have moaned why we didn't cash in on them


Where is the ambition - just developing players to sell on. If we drop out of the league this season the money we got for those two players will look like short change.

And don't forget Sharpe was DofF when we made the summer signings



I mean most league two and one teams will survive by selling their best players on and replacing them, it's what funds their club. We were backed in to a corner with Rose and Hamilton, would've you preferred to lose them on free when it's money available during hard financial times? Especially when there's talk of clubs going bust.

Sharpe was tasked with helping build a younger squad and I think that is for the best, to develop these lads to play at a higher level and take us with them. We tried it with the experienced mercenarys and look where that got us. I know we've been poor this season, but I don't think we'll go down
bobbystagsfan
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 6756
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:50 pm

Below is an old post of mine from April 2018

"Champions form" to "Relegation form" is some turnaround :shock:

Stags season below in 3 parts

Started with just below middle of the table form
Then went on a run of Champions form
Followed by Relegation form :shock:

Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.16.....5....7...4....22....1.22 = Around 14th
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

Another one of my posts below from May 2019

I wasn't surprised at Flitcrofts sacking after the really poor last 15 games, since 8th Feb.

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:14 pm

Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.

However, there are plenty of other managers that if backed would get us close to that, if not further with time and a clean slate. We need to look forward rather than clinging onto what could have been.

I really would go all out to get Paul Cook, Get your ideal manager in now, who would surely want a job rather than no job during a pandemic, let him asses the few that could do a job then start the build next season.
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:24 pm

Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Rob » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:31 pm

KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!


Finished 4th, fact, finished 21st last season, fact, currently 21st, fact. I'm pretty certain I could pick part of Dave Smith's record and find some relegation form in there :lol:

It is an absolute fact that DF led us to our highest league position in 15 years, no matter how much you massage the stats Kirkby.
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Sedgwick » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:46 pm

KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!


We finished 4th in league two... when was the last time we did that well? :lol:

It doesn't matter about having similar form to county does it? Its about the overall season.

Blows my mind that because we petered off yet still finished the best we have for many many years it was a complete write off... id take that over this current and last season.

Finishing 4th with Mansfield Town is a remarkable job.
Sedgwick
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 3731
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:01 pm
Location: Bristol

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:56 pm

Rob wrote:
KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!


Finished 4th, fact, finished 21st last season, fact, currently 21st, fact. I'm pretty certain I could pick part of Dave Smith's record and find some relegation form in there :lol:

It is an absolute fact that DF led us to our highest league position in 15 years, no matter how much you massage the stats Kirkby.


No massaging stats Rob, they're facts just like yours.

Putting Dave Smith's name in the same conversation as DF is laughable.

DF failed, twice, and JR was 100% correct in ending DF's time at Stags.

Just because we've struggled since does not mean the DF decision was wrong.
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:03 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!


We finished 4th in league two... when was the last time we did that well? :lol:

It doesn't matter about having similar form to county does it? Its about the overall season.

Blows my mind that because we petered off yet still finished the best we have for many many years it was a complete write off... id take that over this current and last season.

Finishing 4th with Mansfield Town is a remarkable job.


Finishing 4th is not remarkable if you've got a top 3 budget and you're one of the bookies favourites for promotion, you either get promotion or fail, DF failed in a full season and the season before inherited a team in champions form and turned it around to relegation form.
Champions 1974-75, 1976-77, 2012-13

Freight Rover Trophy Winners 1986-87
User avatar
KirkbyStag2
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 1887
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Get Flicker in

Postby Rob » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 pm

KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Rob wrote:
KirkbyStag2 wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:Whilst even in difficult circumstances, ie having unwanted players on massive wages sat in the stands and losing key players around Christmas... David Flitcroft did a remarkable job for this club... Best we've had for years.


Steve Evans
PLD....W...D...L...PTS...PPG
.18....11...5...2....38....2.11 = Champions form
David Flitcroft
.10.....1....5...4.....8....0.80 = Relegation form

You could of picked anyone out of the West Stand and they would struggle to do a worse job to end the 2018/19 season!

Last 15 games 2018/19

PLD...W...D...L...PTS
15.....5...3...7....18

Very similar to Notts Clownty, same period

PLD..W...D...L...PTS
16....5...4....7...19

Finished last season in similar form to Notts County, who were relegated!


Finished 4th, fact, finished 21st last season, fact, currently 21st, fact. I'm pretty certain I could pick part of Dave Smith's record and find some relegation form in there :lol:

It is an absolute fact that DF led us to our highest league position in 15 years, no matter how much you massage the stats Kirkby.


No massaging stats Rob, they're facts just like yours.

Putting Dave Smith's name in the same conversation as DF is laughable.

DF failed, twice, and JR was 100% correct in ending DF's time at Stags.

Just because we've struggled since does not mean the DF decision was wrong.


No you have carefully selected a particular part of the season, that is manipulation of the stats. The reference to Dave Smith was not a comparison, but he did experience a particularly poor run believe it or not.

I said at the time that sacking the manager meant we were starting again and that there was sbsolutely no guarantee things would be better. We should have stuck with him, at least for the first part of the season. You get nowhere by constantly sacking manager's, something many on here find hard to understand.

We didn't have a top 3 budget either, 4th is the best finish in 15 years and the football we played was the best in over a decade. I don't want him back, but this misery over the past 18 months started with his sacking.
Rob
Manager
Manager
 
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:33 am

PreviousNext

Return to Stagsnet Main Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], marker_mtfc95, StanstedStag and 30 guests