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Allow Fans to Attend Matches

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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:12 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:You can’t confirm an infection if you don’t test for it.

If testing didn’t start until February, how can you confirm an infection in December? Anti body testing wasn’t developed until much later and can’t tell when the infection was contracted so I can’t see how you can say the infection 100% wasn’t here earlier.

Samples that are held of people with covid-like symptoms have been tested by various research groups and no sample has tested positive for Covid from anyone who hadn't travelled abroad prior to the lady whose sample from late February tested positive.
If the virus was here in December in the numbers people are claiming on social media there would be samples that would have tested positive on retesting. This hasn't happened.



I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dan » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:48 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Dan wrote:Have you not read my post above where it says the pandemic kicked off in the UK in September?! :roll:


It doesn't say in the UK. It says the pandemic started in September, not December when China first started reporting cases. It is talking globally at that point.
The same article then goes on to quote the first recorded case in the UK was in late January and the first community transmission in late February.
If it was here in December, or earlier, then our hospitals would have been filling up a lot sooner than March.


So the first words at the top of the page that say “When did coronavirus first come to the UK” don’t mean anything then?! :roll:
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:48 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:You can’t confirm an infection if you don’t test for it.

If testing didn’t start until February, how can you confirm an infection in December? Anti body testing wasn’t developed until much later and can’t tell when the infection was contracted so I can’t see how you can say the infection 100% wasn’t here earlier.

Samples that are held of people with covid-like symptoms have been tested by various research groups and no sample has tested positive for Covid from anyone who hadn't travelled abroad prior to the lady whose sample from late February tested positive.
If the virus was here in December in the numbers people are claiming on social media there would be samples that would have tested positive on retesting. This hasn't happened.



I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.

I appreciate that not everybody provided a sample which could be tested retrospectively.
However, if a virus as dangerous as Covid was already prevalent in the area back in December/January then some people would have presented at either a doctors or hospital and samples would have been taken which could now be tested. There is no way that nobody went to the doctors, especially the elderly or those with underlying conditions who would have been hit worse with it and therefore would have needed medical attention.
We can all make assumptions about what we had and when we had it, but the chances of thousands of people having Covid and not one of them having given a sample to the medical profession is highly unlikely.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:00 pm

Dan wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Dan wrote:Have you not read my post above where it says the pandemic kicked off in the UK in September?! :roll:


It doesn't say in the UK. It says the pandemic started in September, not December when China first started reporting cases. It is talking globally at that point.
The same article then goes on to quote the first recorded case in the UK was in late January and the first community transmission in late February.
If it was here in December, or earlier, then our hospitals would have been filling up a lot sooner than March.


So the first words at the top of the page that say “When did coronavirus first come to the UK” don’t mean anything then?! :roll:

Yes it means that is the headline of the article and the whole article then leads into it.
If you click on the highlighted bit in the article that reads 'outbreak could have started in September' it then takes you to another article which is about the global outbreak which they believe began some time between September 13 and December 7. The UK is not mentioned at this point in the first article.
The article you posted then has a sub-heading title "When did coronavirus first come to the UK ?" and this is where the bit you actually quoted states that the first confirmed cases in the UK were on January 29.
It then follows with the British businessman from Brighton diagnosed on February 6 after catching it in Singapore.
After that it talks about the first person to catch it in the UK (not been abroad) who was diagnosed on February 28.
As I have posted, this has now been superceded by a case in Nottingham on February 21.
There is no evidence of the virus being in the UK prior to late January, and no evidence of a community transmission prior to late February.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dan » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:06 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Dan wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Dan wrote:Have you not read my post above where it says the pandemic kicked off in the UK in September?! :roll:


It doesn't say in the UK. It says the pandemic started in September, not December when China first started reporting cases. It is talking globally at that point.
The same article then goes on to quote the first recorded case in the UK was in late January and the first community transmission in late February.
If it was here in December, or earlier, then our hospitals would have been filling up a lot sooner than March.


So the first words at the top of the page that say “When did coronavirus first come to the UK” don’t mean anything then?! :roll:

Yes it means that is the headline of the article and the whole article then leads into it.
If you click on the highlighted bit in the article that reads 'outbreak could have started in September' it then takes you to another article which is about the global outbreak which they believe began some time between September 13 and December 7. The UK is not mentioned at this point in the first article.
The article you posted then has a sub-heading title "When did coronavirus first come to the UK ?" and this is where the bit you actually quoted states that the first confirmed cases in the UK were on January 29.
It then follows with the British businessman from Brighton diagnosed on February 6 after catching it in Singapore.
After that it talks about the first person to catch it in the UK (not been abroad) who was diagnosed on February 28.
As I have posted, this has now been superceded by a case in Nottingham on February 21.
There is no evidence of the virus being in the UK prior to late January, and no evidence of a community transmission prior to late February.


The whole article is talking about the UK!!! Even if you don’t believe the September bit it still says the first case was January and you still think you’re right by saying it’s February even though it clearly states January 29th.

Regarding your Nottingham woman, this is what it says in the article on her: “ Until now, the first transmission of coronavirus within the UK was thought to have occurred on 28 February. But this new research suggests there were home-grown cases earlier than this.

Although the study comes from only one hospital in Nottingham, it signals that coronavirus was circulating undetected in Britain at least in early February 2020.

The findings are perhaps not surprising, given the limited testing early on in the pandemic which meant only a small number of people were checked for the virus.

Plenty of people have been doubting the official timeline of coronavirus spread. Other research published in May revealed France's first case was in December 2019 - almost a month earlier than previously thought.”

Prof Jonathan Ball, one of authors of the study, said there was "widespread community transmission of coronavirus" in Nottingham in early February.

However, the researchers said the cases went undetected because testing for coronavirus required a strict criteria to be met like a recent travel history.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... e-53907629
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:33 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:You can’t confirm an infection if you don’t test for it.

If testing didn’t start until February, how can you confirm an infection in December? Anti body testing wasn’t developed until much later and can’t tell when the infection was contracted so I can’t see how you can say the infection 100% wasn’t here earlier.

Samples that are held of people with covid-like symptoms have been tested by various research groups and no sample has tested positive for Covid from anyone who hadn't travelled abroad prior to the lady whose sample from late February tested positive.
If the virus was here in December in the numbers people are claiming on social media there would be samples that would have tested positive on retesting. This hasn't happened.



I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.

I appreciate that not everybody provided a sample which could be tested retrospectively.
However, if a virus as dangerous as Covid was already prevalent in the area back in December/January then some people would have presented at either a doctors or hospital and samples would have been taken which could now be tested. There is no way that nobody went to the doctors, especially the elderly or those with underlying conditions who would have been hit worse with it and therefore would have needed medical attention.
We can all make assumptions about what we had and when we had it, but the chances of thousands of people having Covid and not one of them having given a sample to the medical profession is highly unlikely.


I don’t bother my doctor with things like simple colds but on the odd occasions I have been with more serious infections, I have NEVER had a sample taken for routine never mind retrospective analysis and I very much doubt others have. Even if samples were taken, what happens after the test is concluded? Do the samples get filed away ‘just in case’ or do they get destroyed? Our labs have all on analysing current samples never mind trawling through old samples to find evidence that makes very little difference to the picture.

Only a fool would stick with a rigid view when there is lots of circumstantial evidence to the contrary and insist it didn’t happen if it can’t be proven. This virus has proven time and again that we don’t know it’s characteristics for certain and we should keep an open mind.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby FarnieStag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:43 pm

I find the whole situation incredibly depressing. Of course we should be able to attend football matches.

There are people on here living in fear of something that they probably wouldn't die of even if they caught it, while at the same time hundred of thousands (perhaps millions) of families are thrown into debt and poverty. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who will die early from undiagnosed cancers/heart issues/strokes/mental problems.
We clap and put out rainbows out for the NHS, though 80% of the NHS was closed from March to June, and a large portion still remains closed or running at much reduced capacity.

There are lots on here continually talking about the "vaccine". All the best scientists in the world never managed to find one for SARS and MERS, so why will they find one for Covid-19?. It's a virus that is continually changing/mutating. The government want to inoculate everyone i.e. give a rushed-through jab to 100% of the population to vaccinate against a disease which 99.5% of the population survives. Does anyone really think this is sensible?

A company that I work for on Test & Trace (Serco) is making tens of millions out of project fear - it has a board made up of former minister and general cronies (both red and blue). It's in their interests to continually ramp up the number of tests as they get paid for each one carried out, but by carrying out more tests they find more positive cases (obviously). Covid-19 has become an industry. The number of people being admitted to hospital is rising, but even by SAGE's own figures, the numbers are not far off the usual figures for October.

To all those want a strict lockdown I say that's fine. BUT it's only fair that this lockdown should be for everyone... i.e. Tesco and all supermarket staff, lorry drivers bringing in food supplies, those working in the power grid and other essential services, internet supply staff, all those carrying out Covid tests and all surgeons/NHS staff, the police and all armed forces. These should all have the same right to be able to "stay home, stay safe" too. Still want your lockdown?
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby spanishstag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 1:54 pm

Over here in spain ,the government has said there wont be another national lockdown ,the country cant afford it ,the uk figures are getting worse its time to just bite the bullet and say ok we take as many precautions as we can ,but life has to carry on ,no more paying people to stay at home just get on with life and try to be sensible if the youngsters get it through their selfishness its only reflecting the way they have been brought up ie you reap what you sow adios amigos :mtfc:
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Bradders » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:13 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:You can’t confirm an infection if you don’t test for it.

If testing didn’t start until February, how can you confirm an infection in December? Anti body testing wasn’t developed until much later and can’t tell when the infection was contracted so I can’t see how you can say the infection 100% wasn’t here earlier.

Samples that are held of people with covid-like symptoms have been tested by various research groups and no sample has tested positive for Covid from anyone who hadn't travelled abroad prior to the lady whose sample from late February tested positive.
If the virus was here in December in the numbers people are claiming on social media there would be samples that would have tested positive on retesting. This hasn't happened.



I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.

I appreciate that not everybody provided a sample which could be tested retrospectively.
However, if a virus as dangerous as Covid was already prevalent in the area back in December/January then some people would have presented at either a doctors or hospital and samples would have been taken which could now be tested. There is no way that nobody went to the doctors, especially the elderly or those with underlying conditions who would have been hit worse with it and therefore would have needed medical attention.
We can all make assumptions about what we had and when we had it, but the chances of thousands of people having Covid and not one of them having given a sample to the medical profession is highly unlikely.


I don’t bother my doctor with things like simple colds but on the odd occasions I have been with more serious infections, I have NEVER had a sample taken for routine never mind retrospective analysis and I very much doubt others have. Even if samples were taken, what happens after the test is concluded? Do the samples get filed away ‘just in case’ or do they get destroyed? Our labs have all on analysing current samples never mind trawling through old samples to find evidence that makes very little difference to the picture.

Only a fool would stick with a rigid view when there is lots of circumstantial evidence to the contrary and insist it didn’t happen if it can’t be proven. This virus has proven time and again that we don’t know it’s characteristics for certain and we should keep an open mind.

Anyone can get an antibody test, and if you're sure that you had the disease before it was known to be circulating in the UK you'd have taken one, as it would be a remarkable case.

My test was in July, at the BUPA clinic in Nottingham, and confirmed antibodies. A few people I know that claimed to have had Covid in January and February had tests that proved negative. My infection was in March, a common time to catch it.

If you had a cough and temperature in December it was probably a traditional cold or flu bug. My bout of Covid-19 was characterised by fevers, breathlessness, change of taste and smell, loss of appetite, and extreme fatigue. No cough. The fevers were in waves all week, never really bad, but with periods where I felt better. Nothing like the common cold or flu bug.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby oldweststander » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:20 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:You can’t confirm an infection if you don’t test for it.

If testing didn’t start until February, how can you confirm an infection in December? Anti body testing wasn’t developed until much later and can’t tell when the infection was contracted so I can’t see how you can say the infection 100% wasn’t here earlier.

Samples that are held of people with covid-like symptoms have been tested by various research groups and no sample has tested positive for Covid from anyone who hadn't travelled abroad prior to the lady whose sample from late February tested positive.
If the virus was here in December in the numbers people are claiming on social media there would be samples that would have tested positive on retesting. This hasn't happened.



I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.

I appreciate that not everybody provided a sample which could be tested retrospectively.
However, if a virus as dangerous as Covid was already prevalent in the area back in December/January then some people would have presented at either a doctors or hospital and samples would have been taken which could now be tested. There is no way that nobody went to the doctors, especially the elderly or those with underlying conditions who would have been hit worse with it and therefore would have needed medical attention.
We can all make assumptions about what we had and when we had it, but the chances of thousands of people having Covid and not one of them having given a sample to the medical profession is highly unlikely.



Common sense demonstrated, once more, by Dave W, think you guys should listen or read what he says and take note.

All you lot out there who think they had Covid in December or January you didn't.
Last edited by oldweststander on Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby part time pete » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:21 pm

FarnieStag wrote:I find the whole situation incredibly depressing. Of course we should be able to attend football matches.

There are people on here living in fear of something that they probably wouldn't die of even if they caught it, while at the same time hundred of thousands (perhaps millions) of families are thrown into debt and poverty. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people who will die early from undiagnosed cancers/heart issues/strokes/mental problems.
We clap and put out rainbows out for the NHS, though 80% of the NHS was closed from March to June, and a large portion still remains closed or running at much reduced capacity.

There are lots on here continually talking about the "vaccine". All the best scientists in the world never managed to find one for SARS and MERS, so why will they find one for Covid-19?. It's a virus that is continually changing/mutating. The government want to inoculate everyone i.e. give a rushed-through jab to 100% of the population to vaccinate against a disease which 99.5% of the population survives. Does anyone really think this is sensible?

A company that I work for on Test & Trace (Serco) is making tens of millions out of project fear - it has a board made up of former minister and general cronies (both red and blue). It's in their interests to continually ramp up the number of tests as they get paid for each one carried out, but by carrying out more tests they find more positive cases (obviously). Covid-19 has become an industry. The number of people being admitted to hospital is rising, but even by SAGE's own figures, the numbers are not far off the usual figures for October.

To all those want a strict lockdown I say that's fine. BUT it's only fair that this lockdown should be for everyone... i.e. Tesco and all supermarket staff, lorry drivers bringing in food supplies, those working in the power grid and other essential services, internet supply staff, all those carrying out Covid tests and all surgeons/NHS staff, the police and all armed forces. These should all have the same right to be able to "stay home, stay safe" too. Still want your lockdown?


If everyone, and I mean everyone just stopped at home for a fortnight, this virus would just die out as it could not affect anyone after a fortnight.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sat Oct 10, 2020 2:44 pm

Dan wrote:The whole article is talking about the UK!!! Even if you don’t believe the September bit it still says the first case was January and you still think you’re right by saying it’s February even though it clearly states January 29th.

If you can't be bothered to read what I am posting there is not a lot of point is there ?
Several times in this thread, even in the post you have quoted, I have stated that the first recorded case in the UK was in January.
My reference to February was for the first community case. This is where somebody who hasn't been abroad has tested positive.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:00 pm

I had symptoms at the end of January which, despite your assertions, I am convinced was covid. No-one took a sample from me nor I suspect the thousands of others in the same situation. The Mansfield area was rampant with illness at that point so could it have been covid and also account for why the town has been near the bottom of official infection rates since?

Perhaps a round of anti body testing in the area would show the truth of the situation but that costs money and more importantly precious resources. Either way, we don’t know for sure and should keep an open mind and not stick rigidly to untested beliefs.[/quote]
I appreciate that not everybody provided a sample which could be tested retrospectively.
However, if a virus as dangerous as Covid was already prevalent in the area back in December/January then some people would have presented at either a doctors or hospital and samples would have been taken which could now be tested. There is no way that nobody went to the doctors, especially the elderly or those with underlying conditions who would have been hit worse with it and therefore would have needed medical attention.
We can all make assumptions about what we had and when we had it, but the chances of thousands of people having Covid and not one of them having given a sample to the medical profession is highly unlikely.[/quote]

I don’t bother my doctor with things like simple colds but on the odd occasions I have been with more serious infections, I have NEVER had a sample taken for routine never mind retrospective analysis and I very much doubt others have. Even if samples were taken, what happens after the test is concluded? Do the samples get filed away ‘just in case’ or do they get destroyed? Our labs have all on analysing current samples never mind trawling through old samples to find evidence that makes very little difference to the picture.

Only a fool would stick with a rigid view when there is lots of circumstantial evidence to the contrary and insist it didn’t happen if it can’t be proven. This virus has proven time and again that we don’t know it’s characteristics for certain and we should keep an open mind.[/quote]
Anyone can get an antibody test, and if you're sure that you had the disease before it was known to be circulating in the UK you'd have taken one, as it would be a remarkable case.

My test was in July, at the BUPA clinic in Nottingham, and confirmed antibodies. A few people I know that claimed to have had Covid in January and February had tests that proved negative. My infection was in March, a common time to catch it.

If you had a cough and temperature in December it was probably a traditional cold or flu bug. My bout of Covid-19 was characterised by fevers, breathlessness, change of taste and smell, loss of appetite, and extreme fatigue. No cough. The fevers were in waves all week, never really bad, but with periods where I felt better. Nothing like the common cold or flu bug.[/quote]

Your arrogance is astounding. You have no idea what my symptoms were yet you tell me I had a traditional cold or flu bug. You also tell me I would have had a test if I thought I had had Covid-why? What good would it do?

Maybe you should join the medical profession and cure the world as you know everything there is to know about covid. I’m sure you you make a great witch doctor but I certainly wouldn’t sign up to a blinkered individual who is an expert on nothing.

If you bothered to do serious research into the subject, you would discover that a woman in the UK is thought to have died of Covid as early as October 2019 and a group of experts believe it to have been widely spread here since late November/early December. But of course these are only opinions of medical experts so may not be correct. As I said, we don’t know so we should keep an open mind.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dan » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:38 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Your arrogance is astounding. You have no idea what my symptoms were yet you tell me I had a traditional cold or flu bug. You also tell me I would have had a test if I thought I had had Covid-why? What good would it do?

Maybe you should join the medical profession and cure the world as you know everything there is to know about covid. I’m sure you you make a great witch doctor but I certainly wouldn’t sign up to a blinkered individual who is an expert on nothing.

If you bothered to do serious research into the subject, you would discover that a woman in the UK is thought to have died of Covid as early as October 2019 and a group of experts believe it to have been widely spread here since late November/early December. But of course these are only opinions of medical experts so may not be correct. As I said, we don’t know so we should keep an open mind.


You’re wasting your time mate. Even with facts I’ve provided above it’s still fallen on deaf/ignorant ears as the resident doctors think they know more than the scientists. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:23 am

The problem is Dan that ignorant views and stubbornness help the virus to spread.

Dave Yawne is Donald Trump in disguise insisting there was no covid pre February and don’t forget it’s nothing to worry about as he’s beat it and has the results to prove it. I bet he’s got a certificate to prove he’s sane as well.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Jamie » Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:57 am

part time pete wrote: If everyone, and I mean everyone just stopped at home for a fortnight, this virus would just die out as it could not affect anyone after a fortnight.


Obviously that isn't realistic or possible though. What about law & order and health? Criminal's won't stop for this neither will things like cancer, addiction and accidents. Is everyone expected to stock up provisions for this two weeks, that alone would see shelves stripped bare and many unable to stock up. Also do we then just ban all international travel after because it not it could be back in the country the very next day.

The lockdown has hurt our economy, created a huge problem with other existing conditions, with education and so many other things we don't even understand yet. The long term cost will far out way the lives saved.

I agreed with the first lockdown, the numbers looked bad, we knew so little about it and needed to buy some time. We did that and now we know a lot more. Destroying a country and creating so many ripple issues just doesn't stack up now. If your fraile, have existing health issues or are considered high risk from it (they know exactly who is at risk now) you should stay home. The rest can then get back to more of a normality knowing we have X thousand/million shielding that need support and special assistance.

For younger people who are mostly not at any risk, this is all so unnecessary and overly harsh. They're growing up in a world where the oldest people have all the money, yet have left them with huge national debts, huge pension deficits and now a load more issues from the fall out of this. They're being expected to lose their jobs, education and future chances for some misguided idea that if we all suffer its OK.

People need to wake up to the secondary issues and fast. Look at suicide rates, missed cancer appointments, the impact on basic literacy in primary schools, soaring divorce rates, mental health. None of this is worth it when 10% could shield / be sheilded.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Jamie » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:04 am

Just to add to that I think some fans could now be back at games. Its easy to work out a spacing plan. Even we were able to do that... fans going are doing so knowing full well it'll be slow in and out, the we might have to wear masks and basically behave. We've only sold to existing ST holders who on the whole are more sensible. They have all our details and seat numbers. They could enforce Track and Trace. Its all workable.

That said, from a MTFC point of view, other than for atmosphere during the game, its pointless. It won't generate any additional income and if anything adds costs. We've already paid...
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby The One » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:15 am

Dan wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Your arrogance is astounding. You have no idea what my symptoms were yet you tell me I had a traditional cold or flu bug. You also tell me I would have had a test if I thought I had had Covid-why? What good would it do?

Maybe you should join the medical profession and cure the world as you know everything there is to know about covid. I’m sure you you make a great witch doctor but I certainly wouldn’t sign up to a blinkered individual who is an expert on nothing.

If you bothered to do serious research into the subject, you would discover that a woman in the UK is thought to have died of Covid as early as October 2019 and a group of experts believe it to have been widely spread here since late November/early December. But of course these are only opinions of medical experts so may not be correct. As I said, we don’t know so we should keep an open mind.


You’re wasting your time mate. Even with facts I’ve provided above it’s still fallen on deaf/ignorant ears as the resident doctors think they know more than the scientists. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


2 facts re covid

1 It is spread by people
2 Dumb people spread it faster
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Bradders » Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:39 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Your arrogance is astounding. You have no idea what my symptoms were yet you tell me I had a traditional cold or flu bug. You also tell me I would have had a test if I thought I had had Covid-why? What good would it do?

Maybe you should join the medical profession and cure the world as you know everything there is to know about covid. I’m sure you you make a great witch doctor but I certainly wouldn’t sign up to a blinkered individual who is an expert on nothing.

If you bothered to do serious research into the subject, you would discover that a woman in the UK is thought to have died of Covid as early as October 2019 and a group of experts believe it to have been widely spread here since late November/early December. But of course these are only opinions of medical experts so may not be correct. As I said, we don’t know so we should keep an open mind.

Lots of people claim that they had Covid-19 in January, or even December 2019. But still, the history of the pandemic shows that the first cases in the UK were confirmed on January 31st. So if you had it well before that, it's remarkable enough that it would change the medical knowledge about the way it's spread, and could even save lives in the future. It means that it went under the radar for weeks, and somehow changed the way it was passed on. Even by the end of February there were only 23 known cases in the UK, so another January case would have been sensational news.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom

There was one possible case in France in late December, so undetected infections in Europe could have occurred. But you'd expect quite a few reports of serious cases during January if the virus had been present for such a long time.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643?via%3Dihub

I'm only sceptical about your claim because I've heard similar, and my response was to go and get an antibody test to eliminate doubt about my own self-diagnosis. The ones I know who were firmly convinced that they had it in January either found excuses for not getting tested, or tested negative. So perhaps you'll understand my "arrogance".

Not knowing your exact symptoms isn't that relevant, as obviously they would seem similar to Covid, but that doesn't mean that they are from the disease. Part of the problem with Covid is that symptoms vary a lot. That's why I took a test, because I didn't have all the symptoms and couldn't get to see a doctor.

Anyway, it's probably done us a favour considering the miserable matches that we've been subjected to. At least we watch them in comfort and only waste the bare minimum of time being entertained by the team.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:28 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:The problem is Dan that ignorant views and stubbornness help the virus to spread.

Dave Yawne is Donald Trump in disguise insisting there was no covid pre February and don’t forget it’s nothing to worry about as he’s beat it and has the results to prove it. I bet he’s got a certificate to prove he’s sane as well.

What is laughable is that earlier in this thread you were arguing against fans returning to grounds, but have now changed sides because you realised you were agreeing with me !!
Well done on the school playground anagram of my name btw.
Do you have any links to the October death and the claims that it was widely spread here in November/December, or are you just going to do your usual of telling people to find it for themselves ?
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:22 am

Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:42 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1282368/coronavirus-uk-scientists-deaths-october-december-china-wuhan-pandemic-ons-data-spt

Try that for a start.

Yes I read that one. 2 scientists saying it may be a possibility and 1 saying it is highly unlikely. Not exactly conclusive.
What about the October death ?
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Hjeldefan » Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:53 am

Using the Express as a source :lol:
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby Dave Wayne » Sun Oct 11, 2020 1:56 pm

Just out of interest, a question to all those wanting fans to be allowed to attend matches. With social distancing in place, what capacity do you think we would be allowed ?

I believe the season ticket sales were restricted to 2,000 so let's work on that figure.
We sold 1,400 season tickets to existing holders so at best we would be able to sell 600 tickets. Keeping it simple we can use a ticket price of £25. This would generate an income of £15,000.
However, it is quite possible that those 600 people are already buying match passes so we lose £6,000, giving a net income increase of £9,000 per match.
Would this cover the additional cost of opening the stadium and staffing and stewarding 4 different areas of the ground ?
It is quite feasible that opening the stadium could actually end up costing clubs money and create a worse financial situation for some than the current position we find ourselves in.
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Re: Allow Fans to Attend Matches

Postby kevin kents tasce » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:02 pm

I'd base the estimates at £20 per ticket to offset any children's or concession prices.

This would bring the net increase closer to £7k per game. Even with the additional income from any food and drink sales, I would be surprised if we covered the cost of putting a game on.

I'm not that confident we would get an additional 600 come on top of the season ticket holders either.
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