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Wigan Athletic In Administration

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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Jamie » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:35 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:I suppose they don't expell as that would normally mean extinction which isn't fair an the average fan.

Additionally they know that there is always someone out there who is willing to buy a huge loss making business for the prestige of owning a league club. It's that residual value that keeps the system going and the reason clubs survive administration.

Clubs are a huge focal point for a town and are often quite a major employer even if most jobs are only part time so is it correct to drive them to fold? I think over all it's probably not right to expell and the points deduction usually means relegation anyway.


Fair points but allowing this gives a huge advantage to clubs who can find a sugar daddy. Personally I feel football would be better if club's achieved things on merit, ie training players up, performing well, getting more fans etc.

Agree that fans are hugely important but then they should have ways to hold things to account. As you'll know I've long backed the idea that clubs should be owned by the fans. If they want to appoint a rich chairman they can, but they've have the power to step in. Essentially the Barca model I think.

I'm not saying clubs go bust, just that they are properly punished for not running the business correctly. 12 points or whatever, even if it leads to relegation is nothing. If you go bust you should drop 3/4 leagues at least IMO. Otherwise there is no deterante.

Where is the incentive to run clubs properly, to grow organically and do the right thing? It's just wrong.
Last edited by Jamie on Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Jamie » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:38 pm

Sneag wrote:I'd be happy with that kind of bad management at Field Mill over the next 25 years.


Fair point. Wigan maybe isn't the best example and it's not Whelan I'm talking about as I don't think he's caused this (haven't read the detail yet).

On the flip side. Would you trade 20 years of relative success for the long term future of your club? Personally id sooner be watching us in L2 in 20 years than be looking for a new club.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Sneag » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:45 pm

Jamie wrote:
Sneag wrote:I'd be happy with that kind of bad management at Field Mill over the next 25 years.


Fair point. Wigan maybe isn't the best example and it's not Whelan I'm talking about as I don't think he's caused this (haven't read the detail yet).

On the flip side. Would you trade 20 years of relative success for the long term future of your club? Personally id sooner be watching us in L2 in 20 years than be looking for a new club.


I'm 57 and I've been watching Stags be mostly crap for 46 years. So yes you're damn right I'd trade 20 years of success for a lifetime of failure. :lol:
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:55 pm

Jamie wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:I suppose they don't expell as that would normally mean extinction which isn't fair an the average fan.

Additionally they know that there is always someone out there who is willing to buy a huge loss making business for the prestige of owning a league club. It's that residual value that keeps the system going and the reason clubs survive administration.

Clubs are a huge focal point for a town and are often quite a major employer even if most jobs are only part time so is it correct to drive them to fold? I think over all it's probably not right to expell and the points deduction usually means relegation anyway.


Fair points but allowing this gives a huge advantage to clubs who can find a sugar daddy. Personally I feel football would be better if club's achieved things on merit, ie training players up, performing well, getting more fans etc.

Agree that fans are hugely important but then they should have ways to hold things to account. As you'll know I've long backed the idea that clubs should be owned by the fans. If they want to appoint a rich chairman they can, but they've have the power to step in. Essentially the Barca model I think.

I'm not saying clubs go bust, just that they are properly punished for not running the business correctly. 12 points or whatever, even if it leads to relegation is nothing. If you go bust you should drop 3/4 leagues at least IMO. Otherwise there is no deterante.

Where is the incentive to run clubs properly, to grow organically and do the right thing? It's just wrong.


OK Jamie that is one point of view. The reality though is that if a league two club went into administration and had to drop 3 or 4 leagues they would be in the realms of part time football and crowds of maybe 5 to 600. They simply couldn't sustain league standard stadiums on that basis. Even a championship club dropping 4 leagues would put them in National League North or South and all of those jobs would be lost probably never to resurface. The stadiums would probably end up as shopping/housing developments and the general standard of the pyramid would suffer.

I acknowledge that there are plenty of ambitious teams in non league but not many have decent stadiums or the capability to build them in a short period of time. My feelings remain that a points deduction or automatic relegation by one league is probably about correct.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby arsene wengers coat » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:07 pm

You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby adamstag » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:19 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:https://twitter.com/marksparko/status/1279000646335836163?s=12

Mental.


That’s absolutely unreal.

Seriously, what the hell

It’s really, really scary.

Again, I’ll sound as boring as raspberry but anyone reading this, whose read that thread, think twice before criticising the radfords
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby I am Spartacus » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:21 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:https://twitter.com/marksparko/status/1279000646335836163?s=12

Mental.


I have read the twitter thread earlier and if true, which would not surprise me, football now that it has become a business is as good as dead. Bolton, Bury, Macclesfield, Wigan, Portsmouth, Notts County (thankfully saved) and god knows how many to come owe a great deal of thanks to the 92/93 season.

Football is often said to be a simple game so why does it have to become more complicated, more complex and open to exploitation with every passing season?
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:13 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Martin Shaw » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:16 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Billy the fish » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:02 am

Serious fraud need to be all over this and I’d start with the EFL .
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby part time pete » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:31 am

Talk about dodgy, this must be the dodgiest takeover ever.

Read recently UK is becoming the best place to launder money in the world and will get easier after December.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Chrisuknottm » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:49 am

Article in today's Mail saying questions are being asked about a betting scam on relegation and that the players are considering taking the EFL to court on the basis that how can they sanction the sale of the club 4 weeks ago then levy a points deduction because that decision has been found wanting.

As we've all said countless times is the EFL itself fit for purpose........our club in their hands !!!!
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Stags 2002 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:56 am

Chrisuknottm wrote:Article in today's Mail saying questions are being asked about a betting scam on relegation and that the players are considering taking the EFL to court on the basis that how can they sanction the sale of the club 4 weeks ago then levy a points deduction because that decision has been found wanting.

As we've all said countless times is the EFL itself fit for purpose........our club in their hands !!!!


Click on the link from AWC's post it explains all in there.

The EFL is unfortunately confirming its incompetence yet again.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:57 am

It would be interesting to see if there has been any betting on which one of Stevenage or Macclesfield is relegated.

The next question would obviously be 'Did it influence how many or few points were deducted at the last disciplinary hearing'. It could give a big clue about possible corruption within the English systern.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:34 pm

part time pete wrote:Talk about dodgy, this must be the dodgiest takeover ever.

Read recently UK is becoming the best place to launder money in the world and will get easier after December.


Hahaha. You just can’t help yourself can you.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Norman » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:30 am

adamstag wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:It’s clear that Greater Manchester can’t support so many clubs (and yes I know about Salford but they’re being funded privately)


I’m fairness it can - apart from the example you used of Salford.

I live here and there’s pushing 3 million in the greater manchester region.

Salford is different as basically it’s on Manchester United’s patch - probably only 5 miles down the road - like Altrincham which is a similar distance which is why neither get decent crowds.

whereas Bolton and Oldham are their own towns in greater manchester and have the potential(and have been) league 1 or championship clubs in their own right - something Salford could only do (like us) on funding beyond their means


There are loads of Man Poo fans in Wigan . If they would have supported their home town team maybe they would not have been in this mess?
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Martin Shaw » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:26 am

David Conn and Dave Whelan were on Radio 4 at 8.20 this morning for anyone interested. David Conn does not believe that the rumours of the bet stack up and he explained why.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby bellwhiff » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:39 pm

Whelan sounded incoherent
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby The One » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:24 pm

Nice win for them tonight
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby victor A block » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:50 am

Whoever placed "that bet" may well be thinking its not such a dead cert now.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby ST4GS » Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:57 am

The One wrote:Nice win for them tonight
Wigan 8 Hull 0. Sounds more like a rugby league result.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Sneag » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:44 am

ST4GS wrote:
The One wrote:Nice win for them tonight
Wigan 8 Hull 0. Sounds more like a rugby league result.


7-0 at half time. Pity they didn't get 10.

Great attitude from their players though. They have put themselves in a position where they can take a 12 point hit & still stay up.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:50 am

I listened to a load of Luton fans on social media last night after their 1-1 draw against QPR at home and one of them seemed fairly certain that Sheffield Wednesday are going to get a 12 point deduction as well as Wigan due to a breach of the financial fair play rules.

Luton play Hull away on Saturday which is a massive game.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:31 pm

Luton Town 1 QPR 1 (HT: 1-0)

Enjoyed watching this Championship game last night featuring lots of former League 2 players. Pelly Ruddock, Luke Berry, James Collins, Harry Cornick, Dan Potts, Elliott Lee, Andrew Shinnie and Danny Hylton (sub) all played for Luton under Nathan Jones in League 2. The commentator mentioned that Pelly Ruddock had played against 92 different clubs for Luton since 2013. Luton also included Sonny Bradley (Portsmouth, Crawley and Plymouth). QPR included Ebere Eze who was on loan at Wycombe and Ilias Chair who was on loan at Stevenage. They have both played well against the Stags.

Luton went ahead when their attacking right back, James Bree, was fouled in the area and James Collins scored the penalty (13th goal). He was a bargain when Crawley signed him from Shrewsbury in League 1 in 2016. Luton scored a second from a corner but it was disallowed for a push. QPR dominated possession though (66%) and deserved their equalizer after James Bree got caught out up the pitch and Ebere Eze played in Bright Osayi Samuel down the left who used his pace to cut into the area and pull the ball back for Dominic Ball to score a deserved equaliser. Ebere is good enough to play in the Premier League. Danny Hylton came on as a sub near the end and provided a great cross to Dan Potts to set up a winner but Lumley made a good save.

Nathan Jones said after the game that perhaps he should have been a little braver but was glad of a point. I listened to Luton fans chatting on social media after the game and they are pinning their hopes on 12 point deductions for Wigan Athletic and Sheffield Wednesday. They have a massive game away at Hull on Saturday who were hammered 8-0 by Wigan. Ryan Tafazolli came on as a sub at half time when Hull were 7-0 down.
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Re: Wigan Athletic In Administration

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 pm

Hoping Luton go down, was on them pre-season to go down at 7/2.
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