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Salary cap.

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Re: Salary cap.

Postby OllertonStag » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:32 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
Parkinsons Perm wrote:
BH_Stag wrote:
There we go, sign our high earners up for Retford and get them on loan to us for the season :lol:


What a fab idea, let's hope JR's read it or already thought of it :lol:


Doesn't he already own Retford?


Retford United are a Limited Company, owned by the One Call Group since about 2018 i think.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Sedgwick » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:28 pm

The PFA are stepping in... Salary cap apparently not lawfully enforceable.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:44 pm

Sedgwick wrote:The PFA are stepping in... Salary cap apparently not lawfully enforceable.



They say?
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Big yella » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:12 pm

Sedgwick wrote:The PFA are stepping in... Salary cap apparently not lawfully enforceable.

No one is capping any single players wage so the PFA wont have a leg to stand on.

A silly example I know, but, a club could in theory pay one player all the £1.5m in wages and then have the rest of the squad playing for free.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:32 pm

Big yella wrote:
Sedgwick wrote:The PFA are stepping in... Salary cap apparently not lawfully enforceable.

No one is capping any single players wage so the PFA wont have a leg to stand on.

A silly example I know, but, a club could in theory pay one player all the £1.5m in wages and then have the rest of the squad playing for free.


Yes, that's the way I see it.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:33 pm

I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby part time pete » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:48 pm

bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.


It is not restraint of trade. There is nothing to stop any football club company/employer giving a contract to any player and paying what they like.

The EFL just have regulations in place voted by the member clubs that restrict the registration of players to play in the league so the salary cap is not breached.

It is very similar to players not being able to play in cup ties if they have played for a different side in same cup that year (ie being cup tied).

It is just about rules who can play in matches, not who the club can sign and pay.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Bros » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:53 pm

Isn't £1.5m Gordon Taylor's salary
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Bros » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Isn't £1.5m Gordon Taylor's salary
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Effectively the same thing though.

It's probably worth a go.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby tuopolfpilf » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:05 pm

Thought there was a 60/65% income law ? So why 1.5 million
Would a loophole be to pay a player 1 5k pw but then give him a 8.5k pw bonus for being in 1st team squad
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby gazza1988 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:30 pm

tuopolfpilf wrote:Thought there was a 60/65% income law ? So why 1.5 million
Would a loophole be to pay a player 1 5k pw but then give him a 8.5k pw bonus for being in 1st team squad

It used to be that but with no fans and a reduced income clubs will fail it causing issues. Its been decided that the fairest is 1.5m maximum spend on everything (wages, bonuses, agent fees etc etc)

The only thing it doesn't account for is a promotion bonus. We could theoretically offer a huge promotion bonus to offer a player more.

I think this is why JR is OK with the cap. Lowers our spend on players wages and we only pay out more if we get our target of promotion. Also there's nothing stopping us giving them a promotion wage increase either.

I would assume the cap would be increased each season for inflation, for example.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby bellwhiff » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:34 pm

part time pete wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.


It is not restraint of trade. There is nothing to stop any football club company/employer giving a contract to any player and paying what they like.

The EFL just have regulations in place voted by the member clubs that restrict the registration of players to play in the league so the salary cap is not breached.

It is very similar to players not being able to play in cup ties if they have played for a different side in same cup that year (ie being cup tied).

It is just about rules who can play in matches, not who the club can sign and pay.

Yes it is. It’s forcing salaries down
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:53 pm

BellWhiff is onto something as this has been the subject of a lot of legal debate for the RFU salary caps and it isn’t resolved.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:56 pm

tuopolfpilf wrote:Thought there was a 60/65% income law ? So why 1.5 million
Would a loophole be to pay a player 1 5k pw but then give him a 8.5k pw bonus for being in 1st team squad


No. They are all over that. The only exceptions appear to be promotion bonuses, cup run bonuses and the transition rules.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:44 pm

bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.



No it's not, how do you work that out?
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby NorthLondonStag » Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:52 pm

oldweststander wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.



No it's not, how do you work that out?


As I said above the question has been raised in relation to the RFU salary cap and the issue does not appear to be clear.

For competition law the authorities look at the outcome, as much as the form. If the effect of the rules is that it could result in an anti competitive outcome then there may be an issue. I am not a competition lawyer so I do not know the answer.

I would assume that the EFL took advice on the point.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby wardy12345 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:30 pm

How long do teams have to comply with the cap. Is it in place for next season.

I’ve seen that national league teams might be having a budget cap of 900k.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby part time pete » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:45 pm

wardy12345 wrote:How long do teams have to comply with the cap. Is it in place for next season.

I’ve seen that national league teams might be having a budget cap of 900k.


It is in place until the member clubs change the rules.

At present there is no indication that they will abolish the rule and why would they if they have voted for the rule only yesterday.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:42 am

NorthLondonStag wrote:
oldweststander wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.



No it's not, how do you work that out?


As I said above the question has been raised in relation to the RFU salary cap and the issue does not appear to be clear.

For competition law the authorities look at the outcome, as much as the form. If the effect of the rules is that it could result in an anti competitive outcome then there may be an issue. I am not a competition lawyer so I do not know the answer.

I would assume that the EFL took advice on the point.


Saracens just got a 35 point deduction to ensure they finished bottom and got relegated. They were bankrolled and were by far the richest team in the league along with Bristol, when all the rest were on an even keel. They were also fined £5.36m after an inquiry into contracts between owner Nigel Wray and some of their players. The salary cap the RFU introduced was to maintain competition and to stop all the non-rich teams becoming cannon-fodder for the big 2. This was to maintain the integrity of the league and to ensure all the England players didn't play for just 2 teams who could pay them the most.

The difference for a L1 and L2 salary cap is that any team that 'smashes the league' is promoted and so the integrity of the league isn't damaged if there is a big spender compared to the others, because they won't be in the same league the next season.

The RFU salary cap is akin to a cap on clubs like City, United, and Chelsea who have been paying out the most in recent years in a view to keep the league competitive.

It's worth noting that Saracens got there points deduction for paying players outside the playing contract with the club.


The salary cap will condemn us to at least another decade of bargain-basement football.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:39 am

What does JR know that we don’t? He definitely voted in favour. Is he fed up bankrolling the club. Fans wouldn’t question his motives for not putting as much in as before.
I’m not saying I agree with this, I don’t, just putting the scenario out there!
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby stagmanrob » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:45 am

I don't see it as a coincidence personally that JR has put a load of investment into the youth system and training facilities to try and make it one of the better ones in the lower leagues, then now it's complete he's been at the head of pushing for this salary cap.

The problem is however with how things are set up these days, any young player with any talent won't be around for long earning pittance with us, when they can rot in a Premier League U23 set up for ten times the wages and be bought for a fraction of their worth.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby oldweststander » Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:48 am

NorthLondonStag wrote:
oldweststander wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I hope the union takes the decision to court. It’s a restraint of trade.



No it's not, how do you work that out?


As I said above the question has been raised in relation to the RFU salary cap and the issue does not appear to be clear.

For competition law the authorities look at the outcome, as much as the form. If the effect of the rules is that it could result in an anti competitive outcome then there may be an issue. I am not a competition lawyer so I do not know the answer.


I would assume that the EFL took advice on the point.



As previously posted by someone earlier, no individual is having their salary capped just the clubs overall spend.

It cannot be right that some football clubs, in the past, have hired players on ridiculous salaries that are unsustainable in the hope of success. There failure to gain success has effected players and their families lives, take the much reported example of Stephen Dawson who had to sell his house to maintain his family etc.

I do think the L2 cap is too small but it is now a level playing field, it is no longer a question of players screwing clubs because of demand etc, if a club does want to put all its eggs into one basket it is their choice.
Last edited by oldweststander on Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby Sneag » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:10 am

It may see a return to the days when good managers got the best out of average players by coaching and man management, rather than average managers just being good at spending money.
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Re: Salary cap.

Postby gazza1988 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:23 am

Sneag wrote:It may see a return to the days when good managers got the best out of average players by coaching and man management, rather than average managers just being good at spending money.


Steve Evans must be getting pretty miffed. All his "tricks" are being stamped out. He can't shout at officials to try and influence them. Now he can't sign 18 players a transfer window on ridiculously inflated wages.
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