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Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Fri May 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Unfortunately though you can't look at a part of a season and say that is reflective of where a club will finish up. There was almost a quarter of the season left when the plug was pulled and in relative terms that is a massive chunk.

You also have to look at fixture lists and see who individual clubs have to play and have played. The number of home and away matches are also relevant. If you look at County for example they are three points clear of the fourth placed team who have played a game less. Goal difference is six in County's advantage so on the face of it County have a better chance of going up but they have also played 20 out of 38 games at home. The fourth placed team have only played 18 at home and 19 away so those facts totally put the boot on the other foot.

Although this is relevant to clubs in promotion/play off positions, imagine how you would feel if we were relegated under the same system. It is simply unfair to relegate clubs without allowing them to complete their fixtures under normal circumstances as that relegation could actually condemn them to liquidation.

I do agree though that if there is to be no relegation there should be no promotion either. The simplest and fairest outcome must be to start again next season as though it were the start of 2019/20 with all teams in their current leagues, neither advantaged nor disadvantaged. And please don't say that is unfair on such as Leeds etc as they haven't actually won anything yet and there is no guarantee they would have done as we found out last year.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Fri May 22, 2020 3:47 pm

Rob wrote: Points per game seems to be the fairest way so any league would have been able to finish using that very simple formula.


I agree with Rob. Points per game is the fairest way to do it. We also need to scrap the play offs this season. Just promote the next highest team in the league.

It will be tough on some teams but raspberries happens. Tranmere are complaining about potentially being relegated but if the same thing had happened last year then the Stags may have been promoted in 4th place or Tranmere could have been knocked out of the play offs by Col U or Carlisle United.

The teams who are relegated or who have missed out on promotion just need to take it on the chin for the greater good of the game.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri May 22, 2020 4:19 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Why should the club comment, fair play to clubs that do, but again you don’t need to. The votes been cast. What’s the problem? Oh yes, folk making a drama out of us not commenting on something again. Does everyone say which party they vote for in an election? No!
It gives the impression they don't care.
It is a major issue for a lot of clubs.
Had itbeen last season I'm sure we would be saying a lot.
It wouldn't have taken much to have made even a short statement. The vast majority of clubs have.
I'm all for sticking up for our club. However, I think no response is a poor response.

Andy, I disagree it comes across as not caring. They’re damned either way. There could be good reason for keeping their council. I don’t think anyone can accuse Radford of not caring though and I’m sure he’s said something since the vote.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Big yella » Fri May 22, 2020 5:58 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Why should the club comment, fair play to clubs that do, but again you don’t need to. The votes been cast. What’s the problem? Oh yes, folk making a drama out of us not commenting on something again. Does everyone say which party they vote for in an election? No!
It gives the impression they don't care.
It is a major issue for a lot of clubs.
Had itbeen last season I'm sure we would be saying a lot.
It wouldn't have taken much to have made even a short statement. The vast majority of clubs have.
I'm all for sticking up for our club. However, I think no response is a poor response.

Andy, I disagree it comes across as not caring. They’re damned either way. There could be good reason for keeping their council. I don’t think anyone can accuse Radford of not caring though and I’m sure he’s said something since the vote.

Perhaps if he has been Chairing the meetings of the League 2 chairmen he has decided to hold his views from puplic airing as he does not want to be seen as having a pre set bias.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Bros » Fri May 22, 2020 6:11 pm

adamstag wrote:Loving the insight from Mansfield on the matter :lol:

The survey was done by the BBC and some researcher would have rung round each club at the ground. With our new DoF only just arrived and our CEO topping her tan up in Portugal there would be no one authorised to give a response
I am just going inside and may be gone some time
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri May 22, 2020 8:01 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:
Rob wrote: Points per game seems to be the fairest way so any league would have been able to finish using that very simple formula.


I agree with Rob. Points per game is the fairest way to do it. We also need to scrap the play offs this season. Just promote the next highest team in the league.

It will be tough on some teams but raspberries happens. Tranmere are complaining about potentially being relegated but if the same thing had happened last year then the Stags may have been promoted in 4th place or Tranmere could have been knocked out of the play offs by Col U or Carlisle United.

The teams who are relegated or who have missed out on promotion just need to take it on the chin for the greater good of the game.

The only argument I would have against PPG is that it doesn't allow for the impact of the January transfer window. This is often not as relevant at the top level, but a good window can make a massive difference to the form of L1/2 teams.
Tranmere are a perfect example of this, having taken 10 points from their last 5 games, and looking highly likely to catch Wimbledon on that form.
There is no resolution to this situation that will please everyone, but personally, I think that if PPG is to be used then it needs weighting for home and away, and also for pre and post transfer window.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Amber Andy » Fri May 22, 2020 9:11 pm

Bros wrote:
adamstag wrote:Loving the insight from Mansfield on the matter :lol:

The survey was done by the BBC and some researcher would have rung round each club at the ground. With our new DoF only just arrived and our CEO topping her tan up in Portugal there would be no one authorised to give a response

Yet twenty one clubs managed a response.
Doesn't put us in a good light.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri May 22, 2020 11:26 pm

Big yella wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Why should the club comment, fair play to clubs that do, but again you don’t need to. The votes been cast. What’s the problem? Oh yes, folk making a drama out of us not commenting on something again. Does everyone say which party they vote for in an election? No!
It gives the impression they don't care.
It is a major issue for a lot of clubs.
Had itbeen last season I'm sure we would be saying a lot.
It wouldn't have taken much to have made even a short statement. The vast majority of clubs have.
I'm all for sticking up for our club. However, I think no response is a poor response.

Andy, I disagree it comes across as not caring. They’re damned either way. There could be good reason for keeping their council. I don’t think anyone can accuse Radford of not caring though and I’m sure he’s said something since the vote.

Perhaps if he has been Chairing the meetings of the League 2 chairmen he has decided to hold his views from puplic airing as he does not want to be seen as having a pre set bias.

Possibly.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Rob » Sat May 23, 2020 12:29 am

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Unfortunately though you can't look at a part of a season and say that is reflective of where a club will finish up. There was almost a quarter of the season left when the plug was pulled and in relative terms that is a massive chunk.

You also have to look at fixture lists and see who individual clubs have to play and have played. The number of home and away matches are also relevant. If you look at County for example they are three points clear of the fourth placed team who have played a game less. Goal difference is six in County's advantage so on the face of it County have a better chance of going up but they have also played 20 out of 38 games at home. The fourth placed team have only played 18 at home and 19 away so those facts totally put the boot on the other foot.

Although this is relevant to clubs in promotion/play off positions, imagine how you would feel if we were relegated under the same system. It is simply unfair to relegate clubs without allowing them to complete their fixtures under normal circumstances as that relegation could actually condemn them to liquidation.

I do agree though that if there is to be no relegation there should be no promotion either. The simplest and fairest outcome must be to start again next season as though it were the start of 2019/20 with all teams in their current leagues, neither advantaged nor disadvantaged. And please don't say that is unfair on such as Leeds etc as they haven't actually won anything yet and there is no guarantee they would have done as we found out last year.


I think we can argue pro's and con's for all scenarios, but for me the worst case is to void. So if you take void out of the equation and you want to start the new season as a new season then really you only have three options, one is the points per game, next is a weighted points per game (more subjective) and lastly end the season and you are where you are. None are perfect. I think it is right Stevenage are relegated, they were garbage all season and deserve to go down. Even if Macc fold, I'd still relegate Stevenage, raspberry place, rubbish football club. Voiders are generally Man Utd or West Ham fans. One does not want Liverpool to win the league, the other petrified of relegation which I think all decent football fans will now wish upon them should the season restart. Liverpool are by far and away the best club side in the UK and for that reason it is right that the Prem finishes. On the Champ I also think it right they also try to finish, Leeds are great to watch, as are WBA and the Prem will be all the better for them both.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby arsene wengers coat » Sat May 23, 2020 11:41 am

I wish the premier League would do away with Bournemouth.
You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat May 23, 2020 12:22 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:I wish the premier League would do away with Bournemouth.

:lol:
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun May 24, 2020 1:22 am

From The Stoke Sentinel

The EFL board has asked League Two clubs to keep relegation – but agreed with their other decisions. League Two sides met last Friday and decided to end the season on points per game, promote the top three, try to stage the play offs, but not relegate anyone. But that agreement had to be ratified by the EFL board who have issued a statement saying relegation should stay throughout the divisions. Stevenage are currently bottom of League Two, although other clubs have suggested Macclesfield could still face further disciplinary proceedings having already dropped to second bottom after points deductions.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... fl-4153420
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun May 24, 2020 1:27 am

Bradford City and Grimsby Town agree with Dale Vince at Forest Green Rovers that there should be one club relegated from the EFL to the National League although you get the impression they would like Macclesfield to be deducted more points.

From The Stoke Sentinel

Bradford City are the latest club to go public to say there should be relegation from League Two this season. The majority of clubs agreed at a meeting on Friday to have no relegation this season. They also decided to end the season and settle it in points-per-game average, promote the top three and try to stage play-offs. Bradford, like Port Vale, agreed to end the season even though they were just outside the top seven. However, they say the bottom club – either Stevenage or Macclesfield – should be sent into non league.

Bradford’s director of communications Ryan Sparks said they agree with Grimsby who also argued for relegation. He said: “There is no self interest attached. “Ourselves and Grimsby are united in upholding the integrity of not only League Two but the EFL as a structure. Our position will never change on that front. We believe the FA will have the final say in terms of structure, promotion and relegation, and the indicative vote that was cast could still be completely wiped off. It wasn’t an official vote.”

Sparks said Macclesfield could face further disciplinary action, having already been docked points by the FA this season. He added: “We’re told the Macclesfield situation will be concluded before anything happens. If that means another points deduction, that will probably send them out of the league.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... ay-4149018
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun May 24, 2020 1:33 am

From Grimsby Telegraph

Ian Holloway on relegation from League Two
"There are rules in place that should be adhered to. If they are changed because of these circumstances, I don’t agree with it. If they want to have promotion and relegation they should still do it. Whether it’s Stevenage – or Macclesfield because they cannot pay their wages – somebody should go down whatever happens. I know we lost Bury (from League One) but somebody else needs to go down if they are going to promote somebody into our league. The rules of the competition are the rules of the competition."

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/spor ... fl-4152102
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby adamstag » Sun May 24, 2020 8:49 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:From Grimsby Telegraph

Ian Holloway on relegation from League Two
"There are rules in place that should be adhered to. If they are changed because of these circumstances, I don’t agree with it. If they want to have promotion and relegation they should still do it. Whether it’s Stevenage – or Macclesfield because they cannot pay their wages – somebody should go down whatever happens. I know we lost Bury (from League One) but somebody else needs to go down if they are going to promote somebody into our league. The rules of the competition are the rules of the competition."

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/spor ... fl-4152102


Well he speaks the truth and speaks what most folk have said, why ever would you vote to stop relegation when you’ve got promotion also. You can’t have one and not the other.

Plus the EFL were always going to overrule as they’d be worried the PL would say the same down to them - no relegation to the championship
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby James » Sun May 24, 2020 9:04 am

I can only imagine Ian Holloway’s reaction had Grimsby been 24th.....
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby adamstag » Sun May 24, 2020 9:08 am

James wrote:I can only imagine Ian Holloway’s reaction had Grimsby been 24th.....


Any club would say that, even though they probably knew what was right.

It’s like whether it’s just convenient that most covid cases reported in the premiership appear to be conveniently from sides near the relegation zone!
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sun May 24, 2020 2:03 pm

Hull City confirm they are the Championship club with two individuals who’ve tested positive for COVID-19.
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Rob » Mon May 25, 2020 9:33 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Hull City confirm they are the Championship club with two individuals who’ve tested positive for COVID-19.


Did Cummings pop in there on his way to Durham?
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue May 26, 2020 12:51 am

Rob wrote:Did Cummings pop in there on his way to Durham?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

He was just testing his eyesight! :lol:
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Re: Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

Postby KirkbyStag2 » Sun May 31, 2020 6:46 pm

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