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Update - League 2 clubs vote to end season

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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat May 09, 2020 11:23 am

my name is jonas wrote:I think it’s the right decision to end it for sure, be interesting to see what happens with relegations and promotions or if the plan is there’ll be none.

In league 1 Wycombe would move from 8th to 3rd based on “points per game” average with their games in hand.
Cheltenham would overtake Exeter to 4th in our league too.

It wouldn’t surprise me if only the automatic places go up so one less team would come down.


They’re talking about weighted PPG, rather than pure PPG, in which case Wycombe don’t move as high.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby frt1987 » Sat May 09, 2020 11:27 am

What’s the big fascination about not finishing this season. We won’t be watching Stags play until 2021 so what’s wrong in finishing this season then and prevent all potential litigation.

We won’t have time to complete a full season if it doesn’t start until January, so why not just finish this one then?
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Big yella » Sat May 09, 2020 1:18 pm

frt1987 wrote:What’s the big fascination about not finishing this season. We won’t be watching Stags play until 2021 so what’s wrong in finishing this season then and prevent all potential litigation.

We won’t have time to complete a full season if it doesn’t start until January, so why not just finish this one then?

Been saying this for over a month now.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby chip63 » Sat May 09, 2020 2:15 pm

Big yella wrote:
frt1987 wrote:What’s the big fascination about not finishing this season. We won’t be watching Stags play until 2021 so what’s wrong in finishing this season then and prevent all potential litigation.

We won’t have time to complete a full season if it doesn’t start until January, so why not just finish this one then?

Been saying this for over a month now.



Money money money.
It would mean income from only 5 home games in approx 16 months.
No club could sustain that loss.

I don't think there is any solution without legal battles.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat May 09, 2020 2:45 pm

frt1987 wrote:What’s the big fascination about not finishing this season. We won’t be watching Stags play until 2021 so what’s wrong in finishing this season then and prevent all potential litigation.

We won’t have time to complete a full season if it doesn’t start until January, so why not just finish this one then?


Because it won’t be ‘this season’ if it starts in January, with a whole load of different players etc.

Personally when we finally get round to watching football again, I’m sure nobody wants to see 8 games of a season we couldn’t wait to finish.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby eggy » Sat May 09, 2020 3:18 pm

What's the difference between players moving during transfer windows (or at any time, pre-transfer windows) mid-season, and players moving "mid-season" while this goes on?
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby MTFCMusings » Sat May 09, 2020 3:31 pm

eggy wrote:What's the difference between players moving during transfer windows (or at any time, pre-transfer windows) mid-season, and players moving "mid-season" while this goes on?


Because they’re intent on finishing ‘this season’, then it should be finished with the players they had available for ‘this season’. What’s to stop Bradford for example, whose top goalscorer has 4 goals, signing Nicky Maynard, getting into the playoffs and winning promotion. Surely that can’t be fair.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Sat May 09, 2020 3:49 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
eggy wrote:What's the difference between players moving during transfer windows (or at any time, pre-transfer windows) mid-season, and players moving "mid-season" while this goes on?


Because they’re intent on finishing ‘this season’, then it should be finished with the players they had available for ‘this season’. What’s to stop Bradford for example, whose top goalscorer has 4 goals, signing Nicky Maynard, getting into the playoffs and winning promotion. Surely that can’t be fair.


I agree 100% with that. And what point is there for the teams who have nothing left to play for? Effectively 10 friendlies which would be costing the club money with no prospect of reasonable income until the following season eventually starts. I can't see many attending games with no meaning when they could catch the virus for their troubles. If it's behind closed doors who is going to pay £10 a throw (if costs stay the same) fo watch nothing games. They are more likely to hold onto their money and spend it when the next real season actually starts.

The fairest thing is to leave everything as it was at the beginning of the season and start again when crowds are allowed back.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby frt1987 » Sat May 09, 2020 5:16 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
eggy wrote:What's the difference between players moving during transfer windows (or at any time, pre-transfer windows) mid-season, and players moving "mid-season" while this goes on?


Because they’re intent on finishing ‘this season’, then it should be finished with the players they had available for ‘this season’. What’s to stop Bradford for example, whose top goalscorer has 4 goals, signing Nicky Maynard, getting into the playoffs and winning promotion. Surely that can’t be fair.


I agree 100% with that. And what point is there for the teams who have nothing left to play for? Effectively 10 friendlies which would be costing the club money with no prospect of reasonable income until the following season eventually starts. I can't see many attending games with no meaning when they could catch the virus for their troubles. If it's behind closed doors who is going to pay £10 a throw (if costs stay the same) fo watch nothing games. They are more likely to hold onto their money and spend it when the next real season actually starts.

The fairest thing is to leave everything as it was at the beginning of the season and start again when crowds are allowed back.




We could always start a new season in January and find we have a second outbreak and fail to finish that season too. Still think it would make more sense to complete the present season first
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Captain Cunno » Sun May 10, 2020 3:11 am

Kinda funny that this miserable season will rumble on longer than any other......

Would we have gone up on PPG last season when the last game was played ?

I would assume yes as we finished awful.
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Bridgford Stag » Sun May 10, 2020 3:34 pm

What about...…

Premiership European places for next season (assuming it goes ahead) are as the Premiership 'finished' back in March i.e. Liverpool top' Man City 2nd etc.

The rest of matches in all leagues including outside the top Premier European slots are ended and this season is finished.

Maybe, hopefully, if the new season starts September/October, if its safe to do so then we all start again from scratch.

Everyone starts on no points with 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw as per now....but...what about incorporating a points per game based on this season adjustment to be tagged on for next season? e.g Mansfield had say 1 point a game so far (lost track tbh) average this season so over a season that would equate to 46 points. Next season,should it go ahead, we would start with 46 points (other teams would be more or less than that depending on their position and average points total) and next seasons win or draw games would add to the points total. So, if we won our first game we would have 3 points plus the adjustment column of 46 points giving us 49 points after game 1.

I think that would 'even' out next season and reflect what has already occurred on the field this season and give clubs eg Stevenage/Aston Villa a second bite of the cherry of survival in their respective divisions and give the Leeds of this world a healthy start.

There is no easy way out of this I know but I would have thought that's a compromise?

And Barrow get promoted to Div 2 to make up for Bury's exit from the EFL.

Just a thought...…?
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon May 11, 2020 1:25 pm

"No professional sport, even behind closed doors, will be staged in England until 1 June at the earliest, the UK government has announced.

The government has published a 50-page guidance document detailing how England will being to ease lockdown measures.

Step two of that plan - which will not be allowed to start before 1 June - includes "permitting cultural and sporting events to take place behind closed doors for broadcast, while avoiding the risk of large-scale social contact".

The document states that reopening venues that attract large crowds such as sports stadia "may only be fully possible significantly later depending on the reduction in numbers of infections".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/52619111
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby one f in mansfield » Mon May 11, 2020 1:45 pm

Bridgford Stag wrote:What about...…

Premiership European places for next season (assuming it goes ahead) are as the Premiership 'finished' back in March i.e. Liverpool top' Man City 2nd etc.

The rest of matches in all leagues including outside the top Premier European slots are ended and this season is finished.

Maybe, hopefully, if the new season starts September/October, if its safe to do so then we all start again from scratch.

Everyone starts on no points with 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw as per now....but...what about incorporating a points per game based on this season adjustment to be tagged on for next season? e.g Mansfield had say 1 point a game so far (lost track tbh) average this season so over a season that would equate to 46 points. Next season,should it go ahead, we would start with 46 points (other teams would be more or less than that depending on their position and average points total) and next seasons win or draw games would add to the points total. So, if we won our first game we would have 3 points plus the adjustment column of 46 points giving us 49 points after game 1.

I think that would 'even' out next season and reflect what has already occurred on the field this season and give clubs eg Stevenage/Aston Villa a second bite of the cherry of survival in their respective divisions and give the Leeds of this world a healthy start.

There is no easy way out of this I know but I would have thought that's a compromise?

And Barrow get promoted to Div 2 to make up for Bury's exit from the EFL.

Just a thought...…?



how can you promote the top of one league but not another league ?
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Bridgford Stag » Mon May 11, 2020 4:06 pm

one f in mansfield wrote:
Bridgford Stag wrote:What about...…

Premiership European places for next season (assuming it goes ahead) are as the Premiership 'finished' back in March i.e. Liverpool top' Man City 2nd etc.

The rest of matches in all leagues including outside the top Premier European slots are ended and this season is finished.

Maybe, hopefully, if the new season starts September/October, if its safe to do so then we all start again from scratch.

Everyone starts on no points with 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw as per now....but...what about incorporating a points per game based on this season adjustment to be tagged on for next season? e.g Mansfield had say 1 point a game so far (lost track tbh) average this season so over a season that would equate to 46 points. Next season,should it go ahead, we would start with 46 points (other teams would be more or less than that depending on their position and average points total) and next seasons win or draw games would add to the points total. So, if we won our first game we would have 3 points plus the adjustment column of 46 points giving us 49 points after game 1.

I think that would 'even' out next season and reflect what has already occurred on the field this season and give clubs eg Stevenage/Aston Villa a second bite of the cherry of survival in their respective divisions and give the Leeds of this world a healthy start.

There is no easy way out of this I know but I would have thought that's a compromise?

And Barrow get promoted to Div 2 to make up for Bury's exit from the EFL.

Just a thought...…?



how can you promote the top of one league but not another league ?


Ok, accept that one f (I've highlighted the 'And Barrow get promoted.. 'by the way) which I presume you were alluding to -it was a suggestion which I withdraw (sort of ;) ). It was a from the hip comment

So how do we replace Bury in the EFL? Or should we? I accept there is a knock on effect down the lower leagues.

As I said there's no easy way. We seem to be in limbo with rabbits in the proverbial headlights! My major thrust of the argument resolving this empasse is a constructive move forward? Ok...maybe not many agree but we do need to sort this seasons mess out and move on and maybe apply my points adjustment suggestion into the lower leagues outside the EFL?

Off my soapbox now... :)

Football is low in the overall scheme of things but with each day I think this season should be concluded now.

Stay (ahem) alert everyone........
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Re: The Athletic ("exclusive" speculation) L1&2 abandoned

Postby Sneag » Mon May 11, 2020 5:48 pm

The way Macc Town are going they won't be around in 2020/21 season.
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"Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby Son Of Sherwood » Wed May 13, 2020 10:17 am

Source: BBC Sport https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52644313

EFL: 'Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over - so what happens next'

Scrapping the rest of the season in Leagues One and Two is likely to be the most significant topic for discussion in another week of key meetings in the Football League.

An EFL Board meeting on Wednesday will be followed by a meeting of all Championship clubs - then another involving the 47 clubs from the bottom two leagues.

It is not certain the leagues will be formally ended this week as there are a number of issues that will need to be resolved, not least surrounding promotion and relegation, and the EFL is adamant no decision about the rest of the season has been made.

However, BBC Sport understands there is a general acceptance amongst clubs that resumption of the season in Leagues One and Two is impossible.

Why has the season got to stop? Quite simply, money. Or more pertinently, a lack of it.

It is estimated Premier League clubs have agreed to spend a combined £4m on Covid-19 testing alone for their players in order to get the season restarted.

In normal circumstances, finding a sum like that would be a tall order for the lower leagues. In the present climate, it is impossible.

Many clubs have furloughed their players. With no crowds allowed into stadiums for the foreseeable future, it would cost clubs money to stage games.

EFL chairman Rick Parry said 1,400 players across the league's three divisions were out of contract on 30 June. The majority of those players are in Leagues One and Two.

There is continuing uncertainty over their availability in July, when it was planned for the season to finish, and clubs do not want to run the risk of paying them additional sums when they do not have to. If the season is brought to a premature end, in some instances, clubs will also avoid having to pay additional bonuses and appearance money.

In addition, there is no guarantee clubs in Leagues One and Two will be able to meet the strict medical protocols being put in place for the Premier League.

What will happen next?
If the National League is any guide, the process could take some time.

In normal circumstances, any EFL regulation change requires the majority of the 24 clubs in the Championship to vote in favour, plus the majority of the whole 71-club structure.

This system places significant power with the Championship. However, it could be argued that it should not be so strong in determining the future direction of the leagues below.

As with the rest of the professional game, the EFL is heading into unchartered waters.

If it follows the National League example, it will ask the clubs to vote on whether they wish to end the season first and deal with the logistics of it finishing later.

However, it could also ask clubs for their preferred method of deciding league position. Options include:

voiding the season completely - thought to be unlikely
using present placings
using points per game average
using weighted points per game average, which takes into account the number of home and away games each club has played
Big clubs who know their fate?
No matter how the season falls, unless promotion and relegation are abandoned completely, some of England's most famous names already know their fate.

Sunderland and Ipswich, seventh and 10th in League One respectively when the season was halted, are destined to miss out.

For Sunderland, it will mean a third successive season in the third tier of English football. Ipswich will extend their stay for a second year, the first time that will have happened since 1957, when they were promoted from the old Third Division South.

At the other end of the table, another club will an illustrious recent past, Bolton, will be heading for League Two.

It will be the first time they have played in the fourth tier of English football since 1987-88, which is the only other time they have ever been there. Instead of local derbies against Manchester United and Manchester City, which Bolton were enjoying as recently as 2012, their nearest opponents next season will be Salford City, who, like Bradford, will remain where they are.

League Two is fairly stable. However, it is assessed. Crewe, Swindon and Plymouth can be pretty confident of an automatic promotion spot. In League One, Coventry would seem certain to return to the Championship - and an interesting ground-share with Birmingham, who are in the same league.

The battles ahead
Some issues are set to be far more contentious.

Depending on what formula was used to determine league positions in League One, Wycombe, Peterborough or Portsmouth could miss out on a play-off berth.

Peterborough owner Darragh MacAnthony has threatened a "legal battle of epic proportions" if a decision was taken to the detriment of his club, who had won seven out of their last nine games before the league was stopped, with Posh three points off a top-two slot.

Wycombe have most to gain. If the play-offs were scrapped and points-per-game average implemented, they would move from eighth to third and be heading for the Championship for the first time in their history.

At the bottom of League Two, Macclesfield have already had 11 points deducted for breaching EFL regulations, with a further two suspended to the end of the season, to be triggered if they break the rules again.

If they were taken off, and points-per-game applied, the gap to bottom-placed Stevenage would be less than half-a-point. Would the EFL be prepared to send Stevenage back into the National League on such a margin - and if that was to be the case, what would it mean for Barrow, nervously waiting to find out if they are to return to the Football League they were booted out of in 1972.

As with so many issues football is dealing with just now, the overall aim for Leagues One and Two is clear. It's the detail that is incredibly cloudy.
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed May 13, 2020 6:56 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby yorkshire stag » Thu May 14, 2020 11:46 am

if we are going public with retained players tomorrow would that mean no more football ?
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu May 14, 2020 12:05 pm

yorkshire stag wrote:if we are going public with retained players tomorrow would that mean no more football ?

not in itself, as players would remain under contract until July.
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu May 14, 2020 7:15 pm



see also
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... government
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby I am Spartacus » Thu May 14, 2020 7:35 pm

More sensationalist headlines from the Guardian. The Secretary for DCMS has said that the PL ‘should’share the wealth and is waiting for the EFL and PL to sort out the details. Not a demand from the DCMS.

Throughout this pandemic the written press and sports media has been nothing but hyperbole after hyperbole all based upon the greed of the Premier League. 90 % of articles written aren’t worth the paper they are printed on or a waste of Tim Berners-Lee genius. The media need to report news and facts, don’t dress it up with speculation and half arsed theories that back up a headline. If they are going to speculate at least gives figures and scenarios upon which the readers can form their own opinions.

Oh and another thing, as clubs and indeed fans are on the verge of financial ruin do the media not think it is distasteful to repeatedly print ‘in the know articles’ about which club is buying which over priced foreign moody cant be arsed midfielder.
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu May 14, 2020 7:39 pm

“The government is opening the door for competitive football to return safely in June,” Dowden said. “This should include widening access for fans to view live coverage and ensure finances from the game’s resumption supports the wider football family.”

That looks like a demand to me.

If you don't like the Guardian, the same story is here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52665805
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu May 14, 2020 7:48 pm





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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby yorkshire stag » Thu May 14, 2020 8:10 pm

yea right !
not gonna happen till next season
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Re: "Leagues One & Two clubs accept season over"

Postby I am Spartacus » Thu May 14, 2020 8:19 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:“The government is opening the door for competitive football to return safely in June,” Dowden said. “This should include widening access for fans to view live coverage and ensure finances from the game’s resumption supports the wider football family.”

That looks like a demand to me.

If you don't like the Guardian, the same story is here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52665805


It is the word ‘should’. The government are suggesting. The PL are not obliged to even out the revenue though will acquiesce through the DCMS strong arming the PL through allowing football to restart.

We get the finances for the EFL to survive, the Premier League gets to finish based upon football removing the need to repay all of their remaining tv money for the season, litigation is kept to a minimum, Sky gets to sell the gullible public razors and lager and the DCMS get to shout from the roof tops that they helped save the moral of the nation and the game for the nation.

In reality they should all hang their heads in shame that through being subservient to Sky they have allowed such a basket case framework to evolve since 92/93.
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