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Macclesfield Penalty RELEGATED

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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby cassellswasmagic » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:34 pm

bellwhiff wrote:
adamstag wrote:It’ll be Stevenage that go down.

If the punishment for macc has been delivered and is fair then that should be enough.

Looks like another case of where the EFL are trying to fob another club off due to their own incompetence.

Maybe if the EFL’s “fit and proper test” worked the problems at bury and Bolton wouldn’t have happened in the first place (appreciate the macc owner will have been in place before their promotion to the EFL)


That’s the thing. Many don’t think it is.

Cheats cannot prosper. Macclesfield should be relegated. For shear garbage football I’d get rid of the southern raspberries too!
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:47 pm

Stevenage will have chance to be heard at appeal against Macclesfield sanction

Stevenage will be allowed to be heard at an appeal against sanctions imposed on fellow League Two club Macclesfield Town, BBC Radio Manchester reports.

The Silkmen were deducted two points by an independent panel in June for failing to pay wages on time in March.

The outcome left Macclesfield one point and one place above bottom club Stevenage, meaning Stevenage are set to be relegated to the National League.

The English Football League has said it is appealing against the sanction.

If Macclesfield's existing punishment stands, Stevenage will go down, providing the EFL receives assurances that the top tier of non-league football will go ahead in 2020-21.

Read more at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53395910
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Amber Andy » Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:36 pm

I think the points per game calculation adversely affecting the points they have been deducted is relevant.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:16 am

The bottom line is that every point thy have gained has been gained by cheating.

They cannot afford their squad of players as clearly demonstrated by their failure to pay them and the number of defaults they have made in doing so.

If they had played unregistered players in their games, they would have been deducted points for each game they played them in. In principle, I can't see much difference and they even signed more players in January to compound their misdemeanours.

In simple terms, Macclesfield cheated for the full season and should be the team who are relegated.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby ST4GS » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:25 am

Amber Andy wrote:I think the points per game calculation adversely affecting the points they have been deducted is relevant.

How is PPG calculated when teams have points deducted?. If for example Macclesfield had 12 points deducted over a season of 46 games then if the season is cut short by a quarter do they get deducted only75% of 12 ie 9 poonts or the full 12. I would imagine it would only be 9?
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sneag » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:29 am

If Macc don't get relegated this season (19/20) they will go bust & fail to complete their fixtures next (20/21). All the EFL are doing is delaying the inevitable.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby oldweststander » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:49 am

Sneag wrote:If Macc don't get relegated this season (19/20) they will go bust & fail to complete their fixtures next (20/21). All the EFL are doing is delaying the inevitable.



Lessons should have been learnt following the Bury fiasco, clearly they have not?
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby adamstag » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:36 am

The EFL are worse in this than bloody macc, they’re hopeless.

The way they handled the bury and Bolton situation was pretty shoddy to be polite, and not they’re showing they’ve not learnt the lessons
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Amber Andy » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:48 am

ST4GS wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:I think the points per game calculation adversely affecting the points they have been deducted is relevant.

How is PPG calculated when teams have points deducted?. If for example Macclesfield had 12 points deducted over a season of 46 games then if the season is cut short by a quarter do they get deducted only75% of 12 ie 9 poonts or the full 12. I would imagine it would only be 9?

I think that is the basis of the argument. The points deducted represent a full 46 game season not a shortened season.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby adamstag » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:00 pm

Not really sure why the EFL have asked Stevenage for their opinion?

It’s like asking Liverpool and Chelsea whether they think city should have been chucked out of the CL.

What a shambolic way of operating
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Martin Shaw » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:52 pm

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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:19 pm

This is more likely to give the EFL the ammunition to relegate Macclesfield

"Macclesfield must deliver a "professionally prepared business plan to the EFL, seeking to demonstrate sustainable financial resources and management to be put in place for next season and beyond" by 31 July."
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby adamstag » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:12 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:This is more likely to give the EFL the ammunition to relegate Macclesfield

"Macclesfield must deliver a "professionally prepared business plan to the EFL, seeking to demonstrate sustainable financial resources and management to be put in place for next season and beyond" by 31 July."


Which will be impossible as no club can currently do that
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:10 pm

The latest from Stevenage on the EFL appeal against the lenient points deductions for Macclesfield. They have been refused permission to be part of the proceedings.

Stevenage Football Club have been refused Standing by an Independent Arbitration Panel today. The Club requested their views be heard under Rule 96.1 but the Panel Chairman, after deliberation, ruled that would not be allowed and so the Appeal case will be between the EFL and Macclesfield Town.

Chairman Phil Wallace said, "I have no issue with the Decision – the EFL remained neutral, as it should - and both ourselves and Macclesfield put our cases forward as to how Rule 96.1 should be interpreted. It is an interesting point of law as I don’t believe Rule 96.1 has been tested before, so it was new ground for everyone. As far as we are concerned, we would have preferred Standing to put our view to the Panel, but we are happy to rely on the EFL to fight the Appeal. The EFL appeal is primarily based on the strength of how the EFL Board and many other EFL members feel when one Club systematically doesn’t pay its players on time over a season – six times in this case - and yet suffers no consequences. Although it is very strange that the outcome of this Appeal will either relegate ourselves or Macclesfield, the EFL Appeal is about whether or not points deductions should be withheld or suspended if those points mean a Club suffers consequences from that deduction, be that missing promotion or the play-offs, or in this case, being relegated.

"We do not believe that the consequences of a points deduction should come into any decision about whether or not they are implemented. Panels should be consistent in their sanctions and allow the consequences of those sanctions to be what they are. Further, our view – and we believe the view of a majority of EFL clubs – is that if any club systematically breaches the Rules whilst other clubs abide by them, then sanctions for those breaches should increase, not decrease, the more the Rule is breached. This is not the case in the last Macclesfield case, where the Chairman deducted points but suspended them so that the consequence of that – relegation for Macclesfield – did not take place. If that is the way it is supposed to work then what is the point of a points deduction at all?

"For our part, we believe the change we made to the Management Team would have seen us overcome the three points we were behind Macclesfield, with a game in hand, in the 10 games we had left to play, but we accept that we are in this situation through our own making. We understand that the Appeal will take place in two weeks time and that both ourselves and Macclesfield will know which League we will be playing in next season, shortly thereafter. This long delay hasn’t been good for either ourselves or Macclesfield as neither of us can sign players for League Two if we are in the National League and vice versa. However, no matter what the outcome of the EFL Appeal is, we will start next season with a new Management Team, new players, new enthusiasm and a completely new approach to the way we do things at the training ground and on the pitch."

https://www.stevenagefc.com/news/2020/j ... july-2020/
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Rob » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:12 pm

Its poor that both clubs have been left in limbo. There has been quite a bit made of Macc "cheating", my understanding is that they have paid all their players wages but were late in doing so hence the 13 point deduction, which is a point more than Wigan received for going into administration (ie being unable to pay anyone's wages!). I think ultimately they should relegate both clubs and just relegate one next season. It will be interesting to see how the appeal goes.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:15 pm

Rob wrote:Its poor that both clubs have been left in limbo. There has been quite a bit made of Macc "cheating", my understanding is that they have paid all their players wages but were late in doing so hence the 13 point deduction, which is a point more than Wigan received for going into administration (ie being unable to pay anyone's wages!). I think ultimately they should relegate both clubs and just relegate one next season. It will be interesting to see how the appeal goes.


Where would both clubs play Rob as there is only one place in the National League?
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Kernow » Wed Jul 29, 2020 12:32 pm

Two coming into league 2. Barrow and County or Harrogate.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:37 pm

Kernow wrote:Two coming into league 2. Barrow and County or Harrogate.


Yes but the EFL are only relegated one. If two were relegated there wouldn't be a place for one of them.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:44 pm

There is a spare place in National League South which Bury are trying to claim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53555576
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:27 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:There is a spare place in National League South which Bury are trying to claim.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53555576


Interesting but why should they drop two leagues? You could argue that one of the national league teams saved because of circumstances could still go down but would that really be fair? especially at this stage of proceedings.

In the case of Macclesfield the National League may not accept them anyway due to their financial problems.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby MTFCMAD » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:55 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:The latest from Stevenage on the EFL appeal against the lenient points deductions for Macclesfield. They have been refused permission to be part of the proceedings.

Stevenage Football Club have been refused Standing by an Independent Arbitration Panel today. The Club requested their views be heard under Rule 96.1 but the Panel Chairman, after deliberation, ruled that would not be allowed and so the Appeal case will be between the EFL and Macclesfield Town.

Chairman Phil Wallace said, "I have no issue with the Decision – the EFL remained neutral, as it should - and both ourselves and Macclesfield put our cases forward as to how Rule 96.1 should be interpreted. It is an interesting point of law as I don’t believe Rule 96.1 has been tested before, so it was new ground for everyone. As far as we are concerned, we would have preferred Standing to put our view to the Panel, but we are happy to rely on the EFL to fight the Appeal. The EFL appeal is primarily based on the strength of how the EFL Board and many other EFL members feel when one Club systematically doesn’t pay its players on time over a season – six times in this case - and yet suffers no consequences. Although it is very strange that the outcome of this Appeal will either relegate ourselves or Macclesfield, the EFL Appeal is about whether or not points deductions should be withheld or suspended if those points mean a Club suffers consequences from that deduction, be that missing promotion or the play-offs, or in this case, being relegated.

"We do not believe that the consequences of a points deduction should come into any decision about whether or not they are implemented. Panels should be consistent in their sanctions and allow the consequences of those sanctions to be what they are. Further, our view – and we believe the view of a majority of EFL clubs – is that if any club systematically breaches the Rules whilst other clubs abide by them, then sanctions for those breaches should increase, not decrease, the more the Rule is breached. This is not the case in the last Macclesfield case, where the Chairman deducted points but suspended them so that the consequence of that – relegation for Macclesfield – did not take place. If that is the way it is supposed to work then what is the point of a points deduction at all?

"For our part, we believe the change we made to the Management Team would have seen us overcome the three points we were behind Macclesfield, with a game in hand, in the 10 games we had left to play, but we accept that we are in this situation through our own making. We understand that the Appeal will take place in two weeks time and that both ourselves and Macclesfield will know which League we will be playing in next season, shortly thereafter. This long delay hasn’t been good for either ourselves or Macclesfield as neither of us can sign players for League Two if we are in the National League and vice versa. However, no matter what the outcome of the EFL Appeal is, we will start next season with a new Management Team, new players, new enthusiasm and a completely new approach to the way we do things at the training ground and on the pitch."

https://www.stevenagefc.com/news/2020/j ... july-2020/


Just been announced Barnsleys allowed a say in Wigans case but Stevenage are not allowed a say in Macclesfield case. Not very consistent from one of the country's most laughable organisations.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:06 pm

EFL appeal over Macclesfield points deduction to be heard on August 11

read more at https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... -august-11
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:18 pm

So when they know which league they will each be in they have to put a squad together, prepare in training and pull in any friendlies they may be allowed. One team will have 4 weeks and the other about 7 or 8.

And that's only if the verdict is delivered straight away.

On top of that the relegated team won't know when the income stream will kick in.

I know some others don't agree on this (especially Martin) but how can this be fair on either team? Even the team that stays up will be way behind the rest of the division in respect of preparing for the new season and available reasonable standard players will be at a premium. I know who I think will be odds on to go down next year.

They should pull the plug on relegation but continue with the disciplinary as the situation would still need clarification.
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Martin Shaw » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:23 pm

Stevenage return to training determined to prove ‘it doesn’t matter what league we are in’

Read more at https://www.thecomet.net/stevenage-fc/s ... -1-6767124
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Re: Macclesfield Penalty

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:44 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Stevenage return to training determined to prove ‘it doesn’t matter what league we are in’

Read more at https://www.thecomet.net/stevenage-fc/s ... -1-6767124


If they have completed their squad either way then fine and good on them. It's in line with the chairmans statement earlier and shows dignity as I said before.
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