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It's starting already

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Re: It's starting already

Postby Stoney » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:52 pm

Coughlan has more or less said in his interviews we have to work with what we've got. Reading between the lines I think he is saying this bunch isn't good enough but let's get to the end of the season and get some grafters in. We will be a different animal next season.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Amberheart » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:57 pm

Look at the side that started last night. Bar 2 players, it's the same side that got us 4th last season, now we're 4th bottom. The 2 players are Riley and Maynard. Not exactly poor signings ability wise. We get White back and its the same side except Maynard instead of Walker. The fact we are now on the 2nd manager since last season and nothing has changed then its clear the problem lies with the fitness and poor pre season.[/quote]

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Re: It's starting already

Postby skeglad » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:57 pm

arsene wengers coat wrote:He's got possibly the hardest job in football.

Prima Donnas on big contracts for L2
Underperforming miserably
Unfit squuad
A lot of contracts up in the summer
Players wanting out
Players knowing their time is up
Players unable to play his preferred way
No confidence
No quality
Hangover from last season
Relegation scrap
Unhappy fan base


But apart from that ??!!!
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Re: It's starting already

Postby oldweststander » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:14 pm

tillydog123 wrote:One view is that many of us on here wanted rid of JD including me towards the end period where it was clear he was out of his depth.

We did think that a new manager would be able to at the very least organize them and play them in their proper roles etc and get them playing half decent football and a move up the table at least towards the play offs.
This if we are honest has NOT happened under CG and they must be fit by now as he has had the training and clear weeks etc so not sure what is going on.
Maybe these players are all Duds now!!


You can't organise a team that doesn't want to be organised, with players who know the exit door is opening and will be fully open come the end of June.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Cleveland_Stag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:31 pm

Stoney wrote:Coughlan has more or less said in his interviews we have to work with what we've got. Reading between the lines I think he is saying this bunch isn't good enough but let's get to the end of the season and get some grafters in. We will be a different animal next season.


Grafters AND quality! We desperately need the latter too!
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Sneag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:34 pm

oldweststander wrote:
tillydog123 wrote:One view is that many of us on here wanted rid of JD including me towards the end period where it was clear he was out of his depth.

We did think that a new manager would be able to at the very least organize them and play them in their proper roles etc and get them playing half decent football and a move up the table at least towards the play offs.
This if we are honest has NOT happened under CG and they must be fit by now as he has had the training and clear weeks etc so not sure what is going on.
Maybe these players are all Duds now!!


You can't organise a team that doesn't want to be organised, with players who know the exit door is opening and will be fully open come the end of June.


This is the same problem Murray encountered towards the end of the last squeaky bum season. I think it was after we got hammered by 10 man York City AM lost his rag & basically said, most of the squad weren't good enough to play in the EFL. From that point it seemed to ones who knew who he meant downed tools.

GC may be careful with his choice or words in interviews, but I suspect he may be a bit more forthright in the changing room.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Harrington St Stag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:25 pm

GC has a problem. The young players are not ready for L2 and we’ve seen that whenever they been brought on as subs or started in the 11. Several senior players are badly underperforming, we are making error upon error in defence and some of the crowd are becoming restless and getting on his back.

All he can do is keeping shuffling the squad, get players back from injury, and hope they can all pull together for 90 minutes and get a point or three. There is no big plan b or alternative strategy.

We won’t go down but GC may well have lost some fans belief and support by the end of the season. I think that’s unfortunate but football is a tough business and he has to have broad shoulders and a thick skin for the next 2.5 months.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby adamstag » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:37 pm

The side we’ve got is rotten.

Bourne from Evans, fermenting under flitcroft and ran riot under dempster some of the older hands at the club are a scandal, I’d put on one hand who I’d keep next season.

That’s what I like about GC, straight talking, direct, doesn’t suffer fools and direct. Can’t imagine many of the fairies we’ve got will like him given what they’ve had before.

Whereas it’s becoming clear the football isn’t going to be Barcelona-esque under GC, you know the players will be fit, well drilled and have a game plan.

The quicker this season can raspberry off the better, given a half decent budget next season could well see us return to the top 7
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Rob » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:41 pm

adamstag wrote:The side we’ve got is rotten.

Bourne from Evans, fermenting under flitcroft and ran riot under dempster some of the older hands at the club are a scandal, I’d put on one hand who I’d keep next season.

That’s what I like about GC, straight talking, direct, doesn’t suffer fools and direct. Can’t imagine many of the fairies we’ve got will like him given what they’ve had before.

Whereas it’s becoming clear the football isn’t going to be Barcelona-esque under GC, you know the players will be fit, well drilled and have a game plan.

The quicker this season can raspberry off the better, given a half decent budget next season could well see us return to the top 7


I reckon you had too many spliffs at Uni mate :lol:

Last season was our highest league position in over 15 years. We fermented :lol: You would, in a quiet moment away from your histrionics last season, admit that overall last season was enjoyable, it was great to challenge and we played great football. The last few months were bitterly disappointing, injury to Hayden certainly played a part as did the garbage from show pony Grant who so many loved instantly but who scored one free kick and gave the square root of sod all else. I have not seen any semblence of a game plan from GC other than run about a lot. We had 30% possession last night against a crap side, that's not progress, we are worse now than we were under JD. However, unlike you I will give him time to bring in his own players and won't be calling for his head after 8 games as you did with DF.

So here we are, you got your wish, conrgrats, gone well antit?
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Re: It's starting already

Postby adamstag » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:20 am

Rob wrote:
adamstag wrote:The side we’ve got is rotten.

Bourne from Evans, fermenting under flitcroft and ran riot under dempster some of the older hands at the club are a scandal, I’d put on one hand who I’d keep next season.

That’s what I like about GC, straight talking, direct, doesn’t suffer fools and direct. Can’t imagine many of the fairies we’ve got will like him given what they’ve had before.

Whereas it’s becoming clear the football isn’t going to be Barcelona-esque under GC, you know the players will be fit, well drilled and have a game plan.

The quicker this season can raspberry off the better, given a half decent budget next season could well see us return to the top 7


I reckon you had too many spliffs at Uni mate :lol:

Last season was our highest league position in over 15 years. We fermented :lol: You would, in a quiet moment away from your histrionics last season, admit that overall last season was enjoyable, it was great to challenge and we played great football. The last few months were bitterly disappointing, injury to Hayden certainly played a part as did the garbage from show pony Grant who so many loved instantly but who scored one free kick and gave the square root of sod all else. I have not seen any semblence of a game plan from GC other than run about a lot. We had 30% possession last night against a crap side, that's not progress, we are worse now than we were under JD. However, unlike you I will give him time to bring in his own players and won't be calling for his head after 8 games as you did with DF.

So here we are, you got your wish, conrgrats, gone well antit?


Cool x
:lol:
Last edited by adamstag on Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Aspleystag » Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:31 am

I think we will be safe because Stevenage are so bad and we will pick up points here and there, I would love them to be safe and try a team of the youngsters ready for next year
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Spiritater » Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:18 am

Rob wrote:
adamstag wrote:The side we’ve got is rotten.

Bourne from Evans, fermenting under flitcroft and ran riot under dempster some of the older hands at the club are a scandal, I’d put on one hand who I’d keep next season.

That’s what I like about GC, straight talking, direct, doesn’t suffer fools and direct. Can’t imagine many of the fairies we’ve got will like him given what they’ve had before.

Whereas it’s becoming clear the football isn’t going to be Barcelona-esque under GC, you know the players will be fit, well drilled and have a game plan.

The quicker this season can raspberry off the better, given a half decent budget next season could well see us return to the top 7


I reckon you had too many spliffs at Uni mate :lol:

Last season was our highest league position in over 15 years. We fermented :lol: You would, in a quiet moment away from your histrionics last season, admit that overall last season was enjoyable, it was great to challenge and we played great football. The last few months were bitterly disappointing, injury to Hayden certainly played a part as did the garbage from show pony Grant who so many loved instantly but who scored one free kick and gave the square root of sod all else. I have not seen any semblence of a game plan from GC other than run about a lot. We had 30% possession last night against a crap side, that's not progress, we are worse now than we were under JD. However, unlike you I will give him time to bring in his own players and won't be calling for his head after 8 games as you did with DF.

So here we are, you got your wish, conrgrats, gone well antit?

I'm the same as you Rob, I still (after 2 months in charge) fail to see any plan. As for the fitness thing, these are guys in the prime of their physical lives. They are fit enough, the problem is as a team they just aren't very good. If you cannot pass and retain possesion for more than 10 secs at a stretch you've big problems.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Conker » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:39 am

They are nowhere near fit enough.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Spiritater » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:21 am

After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby The One » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:04 pm

Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


Spiro, even the players admit fitness and training under Dempster was poor. So not eight months.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:28 pm

The One wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


Spiro, even the players admit fitness and training under Dempster was poor. So not eight months.


Try eight weeks.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby adoptedstag » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
The One wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


Spiro, even the players admit fitness and training under Dempster was poor. So not eight months.


Try eight weeks.

If you can't get a professional football team fit in 8 weeks something is wrong, even after "alleged" insufficient training before, they're not dragged off the street and asked to play for 90 minutes, they are supposed professional athletes who have spent their whole careers at a level of fitness which should enable themselves to be match fit within a few weeks.
This sounds like a guff excuse from players who don't wanna put the extra in when required, and haven't done since March last year.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:25 pm

adoptedstag wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
The One wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


Spiro, even the players admit fitness and training under Dempster was poor. So not eight months.


Try eight weeks.

If you can't get a professional football team fit in 8 weeks something is wrong, even after "alleged" insufficient training before, they're not dragged off the street and asked to play for 90 minutes, they are supposed professional athletes who have spent their whole careers at a level of fitness which should enable themselves to be match fit within a few weeks.
This sounds like a guff excuse from players who don't wanna put the extra in when required, and haven't done since March last year.


You can't get fit in the middle of a season.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby gazza1988 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:48 pm

Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


It's the quality of that training that's the issue. We have been 2nd best to most sides this season.

I can say I train for 60 minutes each day walking to work. Don't mean I don't start bowling out my rear end if I have to run to not miss the tram.

You get out what you put in when it comes to training. Either Dempster had a poor regimine or the players had a poor attitude (or a mixture of both) meaning not enough went in and we aren't getting enough out. If it is a poor attitude then Dempster should have noticed it early and stamped it out.

Let's be honest here spiro, if it was mindset don't you think Drewe Broughton would have at least helped? Say what you will about his time here but he's a well respected guy and good at helping players.

You can have the right mindset but if you haven't got the physical fitness to keep up you get left behind. The point of pre season is pushing the players hard on their base fitness. Improving it as much as possible so when they do fitness work in season they are maintaining that high base. Attempting to improve that base in the middle of the season leads to overtraining which is not something we want because it has a high injury risk, how many muscle strains have we had? Rose and Macca immediately spring to mind, how many did we have last season?

You could argue that this is why we faded at the end of last season, we started to burn out and didn't have the squad depth to allow players to rest for a few games.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby STAGS FOR LIFE » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:01 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


It's the quality of that training that's the issue. We have been 2nd best to most sides this season.

I can say I train for 60 minutes each day walking to work. Don't mean I don't start bowling out my rear end if I have to run to not miss the tram.

You get out what you put in when it comes to training. Either Dempster had a poor regimine or the players had a poor attitude (or a mixture of both) meaning not enough went in and we aren't getting enough out. If it is a poor attitude then Dempster should have noticed it early and stamped it out.

Let's be honest here spiro, if it was mindset don't you think Drewe Broughton would have at least helped? Say what you will about his time here but he's a well respected guy and good at helping players.

You can have the right mindset but if you haven't got the physical fitness to keep up you get left behind. The point of pre season is pushing the players hard on their base fitness. Improving it as much as possible so when they do fitness work in season they are maintaining that high base. Attempting to improve that base in the middle of the season leads to overtraining which is not something we want because it has a high injury risk, how many muscle strains have we had? Rose and Macca immediately spring to mind, how many did we have last season?

You could argue that this is why we faded at the end of last season, we started to burn out and didn't have the squad depth to allow players to rest for a few games.


Whats bowling got to do with it :lol:
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Re: It's starting already

Postby BigGuy » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:04 pm

adamstag wrote:The side we’ve got is rotten.

Bourne from Evans, fermenting under flitcroft and ran riot under dempster some of the older hands at the club are a scandal, I’d put on one hand who I’d keep next season.



It was that bad between the first pair of names you mention, that we went on a twenty game unbeaten run, can't remember much being said then.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:16 pm

West Ham 1969 wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:It would be ludicrous to sack the manager, despite the poor results.

It will take time to turn this around.

Hopefully we will finish 23rd.


But you need the necessary experience, ability, skill to do it...has GC got this? Record to date doesn’t endorse this. See above post re Cambridge...plus look at Grimsby.



Calderwood had plenty of experience: didn't save him though bud ;)

Every single manager is a gamble - if we got one with a bigger reputation i'm sure some would expect miracles ever sooner and be clamouring harder when it didn't materialise. Imo, sticking with a manager over time is better than chop n change, it's been proven so many times. As fans we seem to forget this mantra when form nosedives, and would rather boot someone out than give them enough time to build their vision or rectify the situation. Though obviously there is a limit to how far support & patience should stretch
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Spiritater » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:15 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


It's the quality of that training that's the issue. We have been 2nd best to most sides this season.

I can say I train for 60 minutes each day walking to work. Don't mean I don't start bowling out my rear end if I have to run to not miss the tram.

You get out what you put in when it comes to training. Either Dempster had a poor regimine or the players had a poor attitude (or a mixture of both) meaning not enough went in and we aren't getting enough out. If it is a poor attitude then Dempster should have noticed it early and stamped it out.

Let's be honest here spiro, if it was mindset don't you think Drewe Broughton would have at least helped? Say what you will about his time here but he's a well respected guy and good at helping players.

You can have the right mindset but if you haven't got the physical fitness to keep up you get left behind. The point of pre season is pushing the players hard on their base fitness. Improving it as much as possible so when they do fitness work in season they are maintaining that high base. Attempting to improve that base in the middle of the season leads to overtraining which is not something we want because it has a high injury risk, how many muscle strains have we had? Rose and Macca immediately spring to mind, how many did we have last season?

You could argue that this is why we faded at the end of last season, we started to burn out and didn't have the squad depth to allow players to rest for a few games.

Making Sunday league errors all season long isn't down to fitness, it's because you're crap. Macc, Morecambe Stevenage aren't down there with us because they had a poor pre season, they're down there cos they're crap like us.
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Re: It's starting already

Postby Rob » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:42 pm

Spiritater wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Spiritater wrote:After 8 months of training for 3 hours a day 5 days a week I beg to differ. They just have weak mindset, prevalent from this time last year.


It's the quality of that training that's the issue. We have been 2nd best to most sides this season.

I can say I train for 60 minutes each day walking to work. Don't mean I don't start bowling out my rear end if I have to run to not miss the tram.

You get out what you put in when it comes to training. Either Dempster had a poor regimine or the players had a poor attitude (or a mixture of both) meaning not enough went in and we aren't getting enough out. If it is a poor attitude then Dempster should have noticed it early and stamped it out.

Let's be honest here spiro, if it was mindset don't you think Drewe Broughton would have at least helped? Say what you will about his time here but he's a well respected guy and good at helping players.

You can have the right mindset but if you haven't got the physical fitness to keep up you get left behind. The point of pre season is pushing the players hard on their base fitness. Improving it as much as possible so when they do fitness work in season they are maintaining that high base. Attempting to improve that base in the middle of the season leads to overtraining which is not something we want because it has a high injury risk, how many muscle strains have we had? Rose and Macca immediately spring to mind, how many did we have last season?

You could argue that this is why we faded at the end of last season, we started to burn out and didn't have the squad depth to allow players to rest for a few games.

Making Sunday league errors all season long isn't down to fitness, it's because you're crap. Macc, Morecambe Stevenage aren't down there with us because they had a poor pre season, they're down there cos they're crap like us.


Spot on, not only that but the responsibility for physical fitness simply has to sit with the players themselves. Personally I don't buy this fitness excuse at all, not for one minute. It's the same crap trotted out by new managers every time. If you as a professional footballer are not fit enough to do your job then you are not fit enough to do your job - no use blaming the manager, its your job fgs. I don't think our form has anything to do with fitness whatsoever, it has to do with morale, mindset, tactics, style and a general confusion about what we are. JD had no plan, no template, no way of playing - gooseberry all to do with fitness. So far. GC is the same, no plan, no tactics, no plan B, poor signings and an horrific start to his career as our manager, horrific. Lets hope we stay up and he gets chance to stamp his mark on the club in the summer, whatever that might entail. For now, I'd rather we'd have stuck with a a manager who had a plan, had a style of play, had the respect of the players and who had us challenging for promotion all season. Not rocket science is it?
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Re: It's starting already

Postby arsene wengers coat » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:48 pm

skeglad wrote:
arsene wengers coat wrote:He's got possibly the hardest job in football.

Prima Donnas on big contracts for L2
Underperforming miserably
Unfit squuad
A lot of contracts up in the summer
Players wanting out
Players knowing their time is up
Players unable to play his preferred way
No confidence
No quality
Hangover from last season
Relegation scrap
Unhappy fan base


But apart from that ??!!!


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