The current situation

[Conker]

Correct. The sacking of Flitcroft becomes more starkly a wrong decision with every passing game.
We would have kicked on this season and we would not be where we are now under Flitcroft.

Not a chance

Like I’ve said before some always point towards the sacking and not the appointment - the truth is somewhere down the middle, although I slightly steer the blame towards the appointment.

Which as someone who advocated his sacking, you would do wouldn't you

I didn’t advocate Flitcroft sacking I was very much split down the middle Rob, so that’s a completely invalid point innit mate?

Believe it or not, some people are actually capable of looking at the negatives and positives, so unlike yourself, I didn’t completely dismiss Evans nor did I refuse to criticise Flitcroft under any situation.

[HitchcocksShins]

Is it possible to stop liking football? Is that a thing? If someone at work tries to engage me in footy related small talk like they always do am I able to say "I'm sorry I can't talk about football anymore, I've stopped liking it" is this an acceptable concept in society? Asking for a friend.

[STAGS FOR LIFE]

I was raisin my hopes that the current situation that the Lie detector machine was coming out to find out who really wants to play for us .

P.S prefer raisins myself

[NorthLondonStag]

Is it possible to stop liking football? Is that a thing? If someone at work tries to engage me in footy related small talk like they always do am I able to say "I'm sorry I can't talk about football anymore, I've stopped liking it" is this an acceptable concept in society? Asking for a friend.

Your friend will feel bad today (and possibly say he’s not going again), but by Wednesday he will usually be OK and by Friday he will be looking forward to the game and speculating on the team selection and posting his predictions of the score.

[gazza1988]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

At the end of the day Flitcroft got us our highest league positions for many years. He had players that Evans signed on high wages that he didn't need and/or want. So no, it's wasn't all his players that he kept. That would have been this season where its all his players he wanted.

Remember that for a few weeks we only had Tyler walker as the only fit striker, other times it was walker and Ajose. We lost Danny Rose to injury at Newport, Craig Davies injured pretty much every joint in his body over the season. Ajose was proof that you can't generally get a good striker in January. It's not ideal.

For me this season would have been his last season had he not cracked promotion. Always progress from the season before. He got 8th then 4th, don't care what anyone says. That's progress. Its not the progress Evans promised us (and ultimately failed to deliver) but progress nonetheless. He would have to go when that progress stalls. That's why I feel the sacking was wrong and a mistake, I will not apologise for holding that opinion. Clearly the players felt the same way. You can argue back that they should be professional, well they are also humans with thoughts and feelings, something I think people forget when abusing them.

[EdwinstoweStag]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

At the end of the day Flitcroft got us our highest league positions for many years. He had players that Evans signed on high wages that he didn't need and/or want. So no, it's wasn't all his players that he kept. That would have been this season where its all his players he wanted.

Remember that for a few weeks we only had Tyler walker as the only fit striker, other times it was walker and Ajose. We lost Danny Rose to injury at Newport, Craig Davies injured pretty much every joint in his body over the season. Ajose was proof that you can't generally get a good striker in January. It's not ideal.

For me this season would have been his last season had he not cracked promotion. Always progress from the season before. He got 8th then 4th, don't care what anyone says. That's progress. Its not the progress Evans promised us (and ultimately failed to deliver) but progress nonetheless. He would have to go when that progress stalls. That's why I feel the sacking was wrong and a mistake, I will not apologise for holding that opinion. Clearly the players felt the same way. You can argue back that they should be professional, well they are also humans with thoughts and feelings, something I think people forget when abusing them.

Gazza - if some people on here were addressed in the way that they verbally abused the players, they’d soon be complaining. It’s crass dual-standards.

[Sweden Stag]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

At the end of the day Flitcroft got us our highest league positions for many years. He had players that Evans signed on high wages that he didn't need and/or want. So no, it's wasn't all his players that he kept. That would have been this season where its all his players he wanted.

Remember that for a few weeks we only had Tyler walker as the only fit striker, other times it was walker and Ajose. We lost Danny Rose to injury at Newport, Craig Davies injured pretty much every joint in his body over the season. Ajose was proof that you can't generally get a good striker in January. It's not ideal.

For me this season would have been his last season had he not cracked promotion. Always progress from the season before. He got 8th then 4th, don't care what anyone says. That's progress. Its not the progress Evans promised us (and ultimately failed to deliver) but progress nonetheless. He would have to go when that progress stalls. That's why I feel the sacking was wrong and a mistake, I will not apologise for holding that opinion. Clearly the players felt the same way. You can argue back that they should be professional, well they are also humans with thoughts and feelings, something I think people forget when abusing them.

We lost Hayden White to injury at Colchester. I feel this was in the end that injury which started our decline last season, albeit a handful of game efter that one.
I feel neither Ajose, Grant nor Jones cut it. Also think Flitcroft made mistakes during last season's January window, i.e. letting Elsnik go as well. We also had Tyler Walker suspended for two games (against Cheltenham at home and Port Vale away) in early March. Corrected after the posting from part time pete

[gazza1988]

I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. Grant is a good player, he's playing in league 1 right now. He got a bit "too big to be here" if you get my meaning. Jones was decent, just not great either. Ajose wasn't great for us either but getting a good striker in January is a hard task. Smith was a decent keeper.

Like you say White's injury was the decline. Olejnik's injury didn't help but logan is a capable replacement. Then the injury to Danny Rose was the straw that broke the camels back. Teams took the game to us because we would have to hurry a clearance and had walker and Hamilton up front, neither were winning any headers and the ball just kept coming back.

So the mistakes was minimal cover for wing backs (it was CJ technically), 50/50 success with January window and thinking Macca was a wing back.

[part time pete]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

At the end of the day Flitcroft got us our highest league positions for many years. He had players that Evans signed on high wages that he didn't need and/or want. So no, it's wasn't all his players that he kept. That would have been this season where its all his players he wanted.

Remember that for a few weeks we only had Tyler walker as the only fit striker, other times it was walker and Ajose. We lost Danny Rose to injury at Newport, Craig Davies injured pretty much every joint in his body over the season. Ajose was proof that you can't generally get a good striker in January. It's not ideal.

For me this season would have been his last season had he not cracked promotion. Always progress from the season before. He got 8th then 4th, don't care what anyone says. That's progress. Its not the progress Evans promised us (and ultimately failed to deliver) but progress nonetheless. He would have to go when that progress stalls. That's why I feel the sacking was wrong and a mistake, I will not apologise for holding that opinion. Clearly the players felt the same way. You can argue back that they should be professional, well they are also humans with thoughts and feelings, something I think people forget when abusing them.

We lost Hayden White to injury at Colchester. I feel this was in the end that injury which started our decline last season, albeit a handful of game efter that one.
I feel neither Ajose, Grant nor Jones cut it. Also think Flitcroft made mistakes during last season's January window, i.e. letting Elsnik go as well. We also had Tyler Walker suspended for two games (against Port Vale and Crawley away) in early March.

Walker missed the Cheltenham (4-2 home win) and Port Vale (2-1 away defeat). He played at Crawley in the 0-0 draw.

[Dan]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

[yorkshire stag]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

100% agree, He had taken it as far as he could, some fans still look at Flitcroft with rose tinted spectacles wake up smell the coffee.

[tillydog123]

I think to heavily criticise the Radfords and saying things like they have created a raspberries storm is not helpful to the ethos and future of the club that JR and CR have worked extremely hard to bring on.

I was 50 50 with Flitcroft but overall felt a change was needed and a fresh face to build on what he had done as he did fail twice in essence.

I think the big mistakes are appointing too quickly but to be very very fair to JR and CR they did appoint really well with Evans and it was only him that did the dirty on them and had he stayed I think we would have gone up under him for his faults of which I know there was many.

JR does not seem to draw breath and gets a manager in far too quickly and for that I think he deserves criticism but maybe the board were also complicit

Would Steve Hymas maybe grace us with one of his honest posts which I think are very genuinely written and we could do with a settler from the board of some sort as to how things are viewed from their perspective.

There is always the easy way and the MTFC way but hey ho at least its interesting and nail biting if nothing else!! but I don't want to go to grounds like Braintree again where players change in a portacabin and get we wet on the terraces.

[Dan]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

Gazza your love of Flitcroft & hatred of Evans is really clouding your judgement mate. DF won two, T W O out of his 12 games, that’s relegation form!. If Evans had come in and done that you’d be slating him to high heaven for it & blaming him for failing to go up!. You can’t have it both ways. Also DF had arguably some of the easiest games that he messed up with Colchester, Crewe, Port Vale & Crawley all at home which he failed to beat. It took him nine, N I N E games out of 12 to get his first win! I really can’t see how anyone can defend any of this, it’s bonkers.

[stagmanrob]

I don't buy that the 8th place finish was a Flitcroft failure. It was 12 games out of a 46 game season. We finished 3 points off the play offs, but it's Flitcroft failure for not getting an extra 3 points in his 12 games and not Steve Evans fault for not getting 3 extra points in his 34 games.

Gazza your love of Flitcroft & hatred of Evans is really clouding your judgement mate. DF won two, T W O out of his 12 games, that’s relegation form!. If Evans had come in and done that you’d be slating him to high heaven for it & blaming him for failing to go up!. You can’t have it both ways. Also DF had arguably some of the easiest games that he messed up with Colchester, Crewe, Port Vale & Crawley all at home which he failed to beat. It took him nine, N I N E games out of 12 to get his first win! I really can’t see how anyone can defend any of this, it’s bonkers.

I wanted him gone after that
It was much like Dempster, where you thought "Oops, this was a big mistake that needs to be rectified before it gets worse"
But at least with Flitcroft when he was afforded more time, you could see signs of him learning and us getting better, and the first half of the following season we were the best we have been for well over a decade.
With Dempster we were never going to improve.

Overall I thought the sacking of Flitcroft was incredibly harsh, given that when you look at previous models to follow, we took the Notts County method rather than the Lincoln method when using the example of a team that missed out on promotion via the playoffs.

We all know how both have turned out.

[Sedgwick]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

We get it you don't like flitcroft..... but don't call people deluded when you ignore other facts because you don't like the man

Th facts are it wasn't his full squad, most are not his players, the rot started in January with massive key injuries, he finished 4th in his first full season, who else has done that well? And I don't buy the whole "he failed twice" raspberry, he had 10 games to implement his style on a team that ultimately wasn't good enough.

Still think had he taken charge this year, he would have moved a few on and sorted out the midfield, he said towards the end of the season we were lacking quality in the middle and options upfront. I don't think any other manager would have known what to do with this squad unless they started from scratch which is what GC will have to do. Dempster being inexperienced isn't the only reason he failed, its not his squad and he didn't learn anything from the season before, only one person did and we sacked him.

Imagine if Lincoln sacked Cowley when they lost in the playoffs?

It would have been so much easier to give him one more season, most players still under contract he was the man that knew how to sort this team out.


But looking forward, GC will asses this mess and sort it out, thats the current situation.

[James]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

There were people on here desperate to tell us that they were all Murray & Evans signings last season when we were doing well.

[MutinyOnTheCounty]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

100% agree, He had taken it as far as he could, some fans still look at Flitcroft with rose tinted spectacles wake up smell the coffee.

Depends on how you look at it my owd pikelet.


This is a team of abject failures of overpaid layabouts that somehow rose up the table into a promotion spot, playing some of the best football we'd seen for years - not sure how you manage that unless the gaffer is decent or the squad more capable than suggested. Imo, the rot started with losing White & Bobby, then recruiting Grant/Ajose who failed to flourish. It also seemed (to me) that something got the players back up, again possibly the Jan recruitment, or something else behind the scenes?

Either way, it's immaterial

[bobbystagsfan]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

We get it you don't like flitcroft..... but don't call people deluded when you ignore other facts because you don't like the man

Th facts are it wasn't his full squad, most are not his players, the rot started in January with massive key injuries, he finished 4th in his first full season, who else has done that well? And I don't buy the whole "he failed twice" raspberry, he had 10 games to implement his style on a team that ultimately wasn't good enough.

Still think had he taken charge this year, he would have moved a few on and sorted out the midfield, he said towards the end of the season we were lacking quality in the middle and options upfront. I don't think any other manager would have known what to do with this squad unless they started from scratch which is what GC will have to do. Dempster being inexperienced isn't the only reason he failed, its not his squad and he didn't learn anything from the season before, only one person did and we sacked him.

Imagine if Lincoln sacked Cowley when they lost in the playoffs?

It would have been so much easier to give him one more season, most players still under contract he was the man that knew how to sort this team out.


But looking forward, GC will asses this mess and sort it out, thats the current situation.

should he have done that though? I think he should've carried on the way we were until the summer

[BigGuy]

The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

But from the start of January up to the 2nd February we won 5 games, drew 1 and lost 2, hardly a rot I would say.

I think it came later than January in my humble drunken opinion.

[BigGuy]

Would Steve Hymas maybe grace us with one of his honest posts which I think are very genuinely written and we could do with a settler from the board of some sort as to how things are viewed from their perspective.

It's on FB to be honest, says we are 'still paying the price of his tenure (DF) and ultimate failure at this club, ask Bury who ran up the millions of debt at their club...."

I would have thought Evans cost the club more with agent fees, wages etc for the number of players he brought in.

Also went onto say that DF kept wanting to go and train at St George's Park when there was nothing wrong with Pitch 7 at the Manor (I made that last bit up!), so was costing a lot of money, surely the board could have told him 'No' you aint having it !!

[geoffhill]

Don't forget Flitcroft brought Preston in.Dempster brought Cooke and Maynard who are good signings especially Maynard.We need an experienced midfielder and a commanding centre half.Turner is miles better than Preston but ended up at Notts County.Pretty sure there are players out there available to improve the squad.I am 100% behind GC.He will turn it round you wait and see.Looking at the table we are in a fight to stay in this league.Any team can win games look at Stevenage winning 4-0 at Cambridge.They looked nailed on to be in bottom two.Not now though new experienced manager and some good signings.

[Rob]

Sacking Flitcroft was right, appointing Dempster was a massive error.

This. It’s laughable the posts on here saying we wouldn’t be in this position with Flitcroft in charge. Deluded. THESE ARE HIS PLAYERS THAT HAVE GOT US INTO THIS MESS! The rot started back in January, the facts back it up.

100% agree, He had taken it as far as he could, some fans still look at Flitcroft with rose tinted spectacles wake up smell the coffee.

Depends on how you look at it my owd pikelet.


This is a team of abject failures of overpaid layabouts that somehow rose up the table into a promotion spot, playing some of the best football we'd seen for years - not sure how you manage that unless the gaffer is decent or the squad more capable than suggested. Imo, the rot started with losing White & Bobby, then recruiting Grant/Ajose who failed to flourish. It also seemed (to me) that something got the players back up, again possibly the Jan recruitment, or something else behind the scenes?

Either way, it's immaterial

I agree, certainly Grant failed to live up to early expectations. The last few months of last season were a bitter disappointment and a failing of the manager and his players. However, my issue then, and now, is that 4th was still a very good return, it was the most enjoyable season of football in over 15 years and the manager should have been given time to work on the key weaknesses rather than just start all over again. When we sacked DF I said it was very unlikely we would challenge this season, this was no matter who was appointed his successor, I think I predicted 12th or somewhere around there. JD was the wrong appointment, but it would not have been necessary had we shown some patience. As for us not being 19th had DF stayed here, we'll never know, but my money would have been on us being at least top 7. Indeed had we not have been top 7 around Oct/Nov time I'd have probably come to the conclusion it was time for a change too. Anyway, water under the bridge now, time to look to the future, which at this precise moment, is very bleak indeed.

[Rob]

Would Steve Hymas maybe grace us with one of his honest posts which I think are very genuinely written and we could do with a settler from the board of some sort as to how things are viewed from their perspective.

It's on FB to be honest, says we are 'still paying the price of his tenure (DF) and ultimate failure at this club, ask Bury who ran up the millions of debt at their club...."

I would have thought Evans cost the club more with agent fees, wages etc for the number of players he brought in.

Also went onto say that DF kept wanting to go and train at St George's Park when there was nothing wrong with Pitch 7 at the Manor (I made that last bit up!), so was costing a lot of money, surely the board could have told him 'No' you aint having it !!

I admire what Steve Hymas has done for our club but the "millions of debt" run up at a club is totally down to the clubs owner, he's the one who says yes or no, not the manager. Bury's problems are down to the mis-management of previous owners, no-one else. If they put the club at risk to appease a managers demands then they are asking for trouble. Now you can blame a manager for spending money given to him poorly and all our previous managers have done that at some stage, but not for running up the debt.

[jpstags]

Would Steve Hymas maybe grace us with one of his honest posts which I think are very genuinely written and we could do with a settler from the board of some sort as to how things are viewed from their perspective.

It's on FB to be honest, says we are 'still paying the price of his tenure (DF) and ultimate failure at this club, ask Bury who ran up the millions of debt at their club...."

I would have thought Evans cost the club more with agent fees, wages etc for the number of players he brought in.

Also went onto say that DF kept wanting to go and train at St George's Park when there was nothing wrong with Pitch 7 at the Manor (I made that last bit up!), so was costing a lot of money, surely the board could have told him 'No' you aint having it !!

I admire what Steve Hymas has done for our club but the "millions of debt" run up at a club is totally down to the clubs owner, he's the one who says yes or no, not the manager. Bury's problems are down to the mis-management of previous owners, no-one else. If they put the club at risk to appease a managers demands then they are asking for trouble. Now you can blame a manager for spending money given to him poorly and all our previous managers have done that at some stage, but not for running up the debt.

You really won't hear anything bad said about Flitcroft will you.?

[James]

Would Steve Hymas maybe grace us with one of his honest posts which I think are very genuinely written and we could do with a settler from the board of some sort as to how things are viewed from their perspective.

It's on FB to be honest, says we are 'still paying the price of his tenure (DF) and ultimate failure at this club, ask Bury who ran up the millions of debt at their club...."

I would have thought Evans cost the club more with agent fees, wages etc for the number of players he brought in.

Also went onto say that DF kept wanting to go and train at St George's Park when there was nothing wrong with Pitch 7 at the Manor (I made that last bit up!), so was costing a lot of money, surely the board could have told him 'No' you aint having it !!

I admire what Steve Hymas has done for our club but the "millions of debt" run up at a club is totally down to the clubs owner, he's the one who says yes or no, not the manager. Bury's problems are down to the mis-management of previous owners, no-one else. If they put the club at risk to appease a managers demands then they are asking for trouble. Now you can blame a manager for spending money given to him poorly and all our previous managers have done that at some stage, but not for running up the debt.

You really won't hear anything bad said about Flitcroft will you.?

He has a point about the owners though.