Coughlan post match & Sky Sports highlights

[MTFCMusings]

A big chance blown by board in the appointment of JD and the resulting delay in dismissing an inadequate manager. The league is absolutely shocking this year. Those two teams we've played in Northampton and Vale are a couple of points outside the play-offs. I think Northampton were in the play-offs when we played them. And they were both dreadful.

Compared to last season when there were four good teams who were much better than the rest. If we got anywhere near lasts seasons levels we'd be walking it.

The season now is for Coughlan to bring some in and get rid of some hangers on, implement his ideas and build for next season.

[Stags 2002]

SPBS you are correct we weren't challenging all season but for those in denial it was a fantastic season all round bar the final heartache amazing how judgement can be clouded. In truth it was our form in Nov - Jan that gave us a chance the rest of the season was in many ways average if broken into segments.

End of September we were in 14th
End of October we were still only 9th.

I still don't get anyone who is pining for the return of Flitcroft. He was sacked and deservedly so. Excluding a purple patch between November and January his points return and win ratio put us mid table / potentially just scrapping a play-off place at best.

Breaking his reign into 4 sections.

2017 - 18 season March onwards played 12 won 2 draws 6 lost 4 12pts. win rate of 17% PPG 1.0 (relegation form)

August 18 to October 18 - Played 15 won 5 drawn 9 lost 1 24pts. Win rate of 33% PPG 1.6 (potentially play-offs but could also miss out)

November 18 to January 19 - Played 15 won 9 drawn 4 lost 2 31pts. Win rate of 60% PPG 2.1 (Champions form)

February 19 to May 19 - Played 16 won 6 drawn 3 lost 7 21pts. Win rate 37.5% PPG 1.3 (lower mid table)

We've been on lower mid table form since February, Dempster merely continued this into this season and arguably with his point per game ration of 1.0 turned it into relegation form.

The same happened to Notts County - form dipped around February 2017 and they scrapped play-offs. Continued that form into last season and got relegated.

Crewe another example of a team who had a fantastic second half of the 18/19 season and have carried on that form into this season.

The same could equally be said of Leicester who in the season prior to winning the premier league went on that miracle run to stave off relegation, continued that form into the new season and won the title.

We didn't make wholesale changes in the summer hence why the poor form has continued as it's practically the same team. Centre of the park is our achilles heal.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

SPBS you are correct we weren't challenging all season but for those in denial it was a fantastic season all round bar the final heartache amazing how judgement can be clouded. In truth it was our form in Nov - Jan that gave us a chance the rest of the season was in many ways average if broken into segments.

End of September we were in 14th
End of October we were still only 9th.

I still don't get anyone who is pining for the return of Flitcroft. He was sacked and deservedly so. Excluding a purple patch between November and January his points return and win ratio put us mid table / potentially just scrapping a play-off place at best.

Breaking his reign into 4 sections.

2017 - 18 season March onwards played 12 won 2 draws 6 lost 4 12pts. win rate of 17% PPG 1.0 (relegation form)

August 18 to October 18 - Played 15 won 5 drawn 9 lost 1 24pts. Win rate of 33% PPG 1.6 (potentially play-offs but could also miss out)

November 18 to January 19 - Played 15 won 9 drawn 4 lost 2 31pts. Win rate of 60% PPG 2.1 (Champions form)

February 19 to May 19 - Played 16 won 6 drawn 3 lost 7 21pts. Win rate 37.5% PPG 1.3 (lower mid table)

We've been on lower mid table form since February, Dempster merely continued this into this season and arguably with his point per game ration of 1.0 turned it into relegation form.

The same happened to Notts County - form dipped around February 2017 and they scrapped play-offs. Continued that form into last season and got relegated.

Crewe another example of a team who had a fantastic second half of the 18/19 season and have carried on that form into this season.

The same could equally be said of Leicester who in the season prior to winning the premier league went on that miracle run to stave off relegation, continued that form into the new season and won the title.

We didn't make wholesale changes in the summer hence why the poor form has continued as it's practically the same team. Centre of the park is our achilles heal.

Thank you for a well balanced and factual post. It shows the true level of Mr Flitcrofts achievements and should be enough to finally put this myth to bed.

[Amber Andy]

SPBS you are correct we weren't challenging all season but for those in denial it was a fantastic season all round bar the final heartache amazing how judgement can be clouded. In truth it was our form in Nov - Jan that gave us a chance the rest of the season was in many ways average if broken into segments.

End of September we were in 14th
End of October we were still only 9th.

I still don't get anyone who is pining for the return of Flitcroft. He was sacked and deservedly so. Excluding a purple patch between November and January his points return and win ratio put us mid table / potentially just scrapping a play-off place at best.

Breaking his reign into 4 sections.

2017 - 18 season March onwards played 12 won 2 draws 6 lost 4 12pts. win rate of 17% PPG 1.0 (relegation form)

August 18 to October 18 - Played 15 won 5 drawn 9 lost 1 24pts. Win rate of 33% PPG 1.6 (potentially play-offs but could also miss out)

November 18 to January 19 - Played 15 won 9 drawn 4 lost 2 31pts. Win rate of 60% PPG 2.1 (Champions form)

February 19 to May 19 - Played 16 won 6 drawn 3 lost 7 21pts. Win rate 37.5% PPG 1.3 (lower mid table)

We've been on lower mid table form since February, Dempster merely continued this into this season and arguably with his point per game ration of 1.0 turned it into relegation form.

The same happened to Notts County - form dipped around February 2017 and they scrapped play-offs. Continued that form into last season and got relegated.

Crewe another example of a team who had a fantastic second half of the 18/19 season and have carried on that form into this season.

The same could equally be said of Leicester who in the season prior to winning the premier league went on that miracle run to stave off relegation, continued that form into the new season and won the title.

We didn't make wholesale changes in the summer hence why the poor form has continued as it's practically the same team. Centre of the park is our achilles heal.

How you can say that a team who makes the playoffs isn't challenging is beyond me.

I'm certainly not pining for DF. Just pointing out it was a horrendous decision by the board ( Carolyn excepted ), to sack a manager who got us so close. You only have to see the calamity that has followed that decision. Another unfulfilled season at a time when the league is weaker. We've missed a massive opportunity this season. Its clear to me had we had kept the same management team and replaced two or three of players who went weak at the knees as we approached the finishing line, we would have finished in the top two this season.

[Stags 2002]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

[MTFCMusings]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

[Stags 2002]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

The point SPBS made is that we didn't start to challenge from the off, which is correct until November we hadn't made a significant challenge.

There's plenty of examples whereby teams haven't challenged for a large proportion of the season but some how end up in the playoffs. You only have to look at Exeter the other year bottom at Christmas - playoffs in May.

[Amber Andy]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

Exactly.

[bellwhiff]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

Exactly.

Watch it. Captain Precious will be along to chide you for not agreeing

[bellwhiff]

It was a crap game, I love how folk are dressing it up, it was crap. Two crap teams incapable of passing to each other. The 5.5k deserved better than that drivel. Imagine having a tactic of hoofing the ball to a 5 ft 6 winger, imagine it ....... Utter garbage. Still, some of you lot deserve it, it was a great season last year, great football, challenging all season, disappointing finish but clearly something to build on - not good enough for some of you eh? Bottom 6 now, thanks to you, happy new fkn year.

Can I borrow your rose tinted specs please Rob?. There is no way you could accurately describe last season's efforts as great football and challenging all season. Yes we played some good stuff at times but we were quickly found out and Mr Flitcroft had no plan B which resulted in us failing to achieve. Had he remained he still wouldn't have had a plan B and not only wouldn't we have achieved again but I doubt we would have made the playoffs.

Hindsight is a glorious thing but I don't think we would be celebrating anything now.

How can you say we weren’t challenging all season ? We were one goal from automatic promotion in the final game and we made the play offs ?
What a daft post.

You are obviously incapable of looking at early season tables or just don't consider them part of the season. Too many draws left us outside the playoffs even. At least you can count this reply as another bite on your usual trolling fishing expeditions.

It really is about time you grew up gripper or are you proud of being the most disliked and irrelevant poster on Stagsnet?

Dry your eyes you precious baby. I made a valid point, as have others. Stop blubbing.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

It was a crap game, I love how folk are dressing it up, it was crap. Two crap teams incapable of passing to each other. The 5.5k deserved better than that drivel. Imagine having a tactic of hoofing the ball to a 5 ft 6 winger, imagine it ....... Utter garbage. Still, some of you lot deserve it, it was a great season last year, great football, challenging all season, disappointing finish but clearly something to build on - not good enough for some of you eh? Bottom 6 now, thanks to you, happy new fkn year.

Can I borrow your rose tinted specs please Rob?. There is no way you could accurately describe last season's efforts as great football and challenging all season. Yes we played some good stuff at times but we were quickly found out and Mr Flitcroft had no plan B which resulted in us failing to achieve. Had he remained he still wouldn't have had a plan B and not only wouldn't we have achieved again but I doubt we would have made the playoffs.

Hindsight is a glorious thing but I don't think we would be celebrating anything now.

How can you say we weren’t challenging all season ? We were one goal from automatic promotion in the final game and we made the play offs ?
What a daft post.

You are obviously incapable of looking at early season tables or just don't consider them part of the season. Too many draws left us outside the playoffs even. At least you can count this reply as another bite on your usual trolling fishing expeditions.

It really is about time you grew up gripper or are you proud of being the most disliked and irrelevant poster on Stagsnet?

Dry your eyes you precious baby. I made a valid point, as have others. Stop blubbing.

The point you made was wrong as demonstrated above. Why should I cry just because an ex catering Corp nobody says a few words to me? Get a grip gripper and stop boring us with the same old worn out insults and replies? Go and peel a few spuds and onions and you can feel like you've finally skinned something.

[STAGS FOR LIFE]

Nice bit of music to help him along go get them whiffy

[bellwhiff]

Why should I cry just because an ex catering Corp nobody says a few words to me? Get a grip gripper and stop boring us with the same old worn out insults and replies? Go and peel a few spuds and onions and you can feel like you've finally skinned something.

Catering Corps

Now pick that lip up. Mwah.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

The Tom Pope column

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... ld-3684656

[Spiritater]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

So like if we lost our next 4 then won 19 straight have we been challenging the whole season?

[MTFCMusings]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

So like if we lost our next 4 then won 19 straight have we been challenging the whole season?

It depends where it took us to at the end of 46 games. After 46 games, you are where you are. Where you have the bursts throughout the season is irrelevant really.

Bury were 11th after 12 games and 6th after 24 games.

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

So like if we lost our next 4 then won 19 straight have we been challenging the whole season?

It depends where it took us to at the end of 46 games. After 46 games, you are where you are. Where you have the bursts throughout the season is irrelevant really.

Bury were 11th after 12 games and 6th after 24 games.

Yes I can see the final positions and fully accept that where you finish is the most important thing. However the different parts of the season play a very important role in enjoyment levels when actually attending matches. I didn't particularly enjoy huge chunks of last season and a good standard of football was not on display all of the time with a number of matches where we just didn't turn up. The most obvious was County away but that was by no means the only game that we served up dross.

Unfortunately a section of fans seem to think that Mr Flitcroft only served us world beating football which is far from the truth. I don't know if we would have been top if we hadn't changed manager but based on most of his tenure, I very much doubt it so we should be looking forward and pulling together.

[Amber Andy]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

So like if we lost our next 4 then won 19 straight have we been challenging the whole season?

It depends where it took us to at the end of 46 games. After 46 games, you are where you are. Where you have the bursts throughout the season is irrelevant really.

Bury were 11th after 12 games and 6th after 24 games.

Yes I can see the final positions and fully accept that where you finish is the most important thing. However the different parts of the season play a very important role in enjoyment levels when actually attending matches. I didn't particularly enjoy huge chunks of last season and a good standard of football was not on display all of the time with a number of matches where we just didn't turn up. The most obvious was County away but that was by no means the only game that we served up dross.

Unfortunately a section of fans seem to think that Mr Flitcroft only served us world beating football which is far from the truth. I don't know if we would have been top if we hadn't changed manager but based on most of his tenure, I very much doubt it so we should be looking forward and pulling together.

We been served up more dross so far this season than we did in all of last season.

We would have been challenging at the top of the league this season had the board kept faith with the manager who got us to our highest league position in years.

Simply, 1/ The players would have been fitter,
2/ The players would have shown more discipline,
3/ The players would have been more organised.

Surely the vast majority on here can see that despite how they view DF.

[Spiritater]

Andy please re-read the post. The question was regarding the entire season.

Did we challenge? Yes.
Was it for the entire season? No.

Lets use the analogy of a fire work.
We started off slowly with to many draws (fuse burning)
Nov - Jan we hit top form (flew into the sky looked pretty)
Feb - May we limped to 4th (we blew up and had nothing left)

It was the form inbetween Nov - Jan that propelled us up the league, coupled with other teams also choking that gave us a real chance of promotion.

The wider debate is with or without Flitcroft in charge would we still be in the position we find ourselves? unless he planned to make wholesale changes during the summer the answer is yes. I suspect his additions wouldn't have been to different to the ones JD brought in.

One look at the league table shows your point is nonsensical. You can't finish 4th, miss out by one point, and say we didn't challenge for the whole season. The league table is exactly that, a reflection of a whole season. You can say the form had peaks and troughs but that is the case for most teams.

So like if we lost our next 4 then won 19 straight have we been challenging the whole season?

It depends where it took us to at the end of 46 games. After 46 games, you are where you are. Where you have the bursts throughout the season is irrelevant really.

Bury were 11th after 12 games and 6th after 24 games.

We are 19th, do you think we are challenging after 23games... honest answer please. We go on a run as ive said we may challenge towards the end of t'season, but anyone asked now if we were challenging'd say

[MTFCMusings]

When it is as clear as that, then no. But it wasn’t that clear cut last season. We were finding our feet for the first quarter, found our feet in the second quarter and then stayed there for the whole season. If that’s not a challenge, I don’t know what is.

[EdwinstoweStag]

Chill out, Rob!

I'm chill, it was crap though

Valium on its way, Rob

[Stags 2002]

When it is as clear as that, then no. But it wasn’t that clear cut last season. We were finding our feet for the first quarter, found our feet in the second quarter and then stayed there for the whole season. If that’s not a challenge, I don’t know what is.

Replace the November to January form with February to May and unfortunately you'll find it is clear cut, hence why I broke his tenure into 4 sections.

Combined as per my earlier post it would have been played 31 won 11 drawn 12 lost 8 45pts win rate 35% PPG 1.45. Over a season that would be 67 points which is usually upper mid table form - not even play-off form. Just 1 extra point in either of these periods would have seen us promoted.

Our form November to January was amazing no argument, it was championship winning. Some of the football was fantastic it included my favourite away day at Stevenage and our best home performance v Bury. The form either side of this period was mediocre and extremely frustrating especially the away days. So much hope, so much build up and yet again we failed.

You say it yourself final third of the season "we then stayed there" it was because our form was that good in the second third of the season, and most teams in the final third of the season stumbled almost as badly as us that ensured we did stay there. Had other teams like Bury and MK Dons not had major blips in form it wouldn't have even been up for discussion because they would have been out of sight early April.

Don't get me wrong it was an enjoyable season, I'd rather be at that end of the table now. But anyone saying that had we kept Flitcroft in charge we'd be up there fighting for promotion or even the title this season is delusional unless he had planned to make wholesale changes in the summer (imo his recruitment would have been similar to JD's and we'd be in the same position now). He had no plan B when his game plan got found out and had to go.

Either way respect yours and other view's and its good to have an open honest debate which is what this forum should be about

[gazza1988]

Stags2002, actually we didn't need 1 extra point in either of those periods in the end we missed out by 3 points. We needed 1 extra point in the last game of the season. All 1 extra point in the periods you mention would mean we went into the last game 1 point ahead. We'd need 3 extra points in those periods you mention to be promoted. Or if you change the draw with MK to a win then we'd be promoted (well MK would have to beat us 5-0 in the final game, but that didn't happen)

We "failed" with 4 players in the team of the season. That's not delusion, that's a fact. Teams higher up wanted our players.

Cox finished 3rd and I remember people saying that people were delusional if they thought he he could do it again, and we all know how that turned out.

At the end of the day it was a strong platform to build on. He'd have room in the budget to bring new players in for players like Paul Anderson.

As you mention recruitment I don't think JD has done too badly. Kellan Gordon has had a good individual season so far, frequently pick of the defence. Since Clarke has come in he's been man of the match and played well. Donohue, well that didn't turn out well. Maynard, do I really need to say why this was a good signing? Cook, same as Maynard, good signing.

You could argue that the "bottlers" were Steve Evans and Murray's players. It was Evans team that bottled the play offs the other season, DF had no say in the recruitment that season. DF also had to sell players in order to bring in others, he transfer listed Atkinson, Butcher, Anderson etc but their wages were reportedly too big for other clubs. This would have been his make or break season. People bought into Steve Evans bull, so when his side bottled the play offs after he abandoned them people blamed the new guy. People then blamed the new guy who was hamstrung by Evans expensive flops. It's sad but true

[ParisStag]

The Tom Pope column

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/f ... ld-3684656

Good honest writing there. I've always quite liked Tom Pope.

[wink68]

When it is as clear as that, then no. But it wasn’t that clear cut last season. We were finding our feet for the first quarter, found our feet in the second quarter and then stayed there for the whole season. If that’s not a challenge, I don’t know what is.

Replace the November to January form with February to May and unfortunately you'll find it is clear cut, hence why I broke his tenure into 4 sections.

Combined as per my earlier post it would have been played 31 won 11 drawn 12 lost 8 45pts win rate 35% PPG 1.45. Over a season that would be 67 points which is usually upper mid table form - not even play-off form. Just 1 extra point in either of these periods would have seen us promoted.

Our form November to January was amazing no argument, it was championship winning. Some of the football was fantastic it included my favourite away day at Stevenage and our best home performance v Bury. The form either side of this period was mediocre and extremely frustrating especially the away days. So much hope, so much build up and yet again we failed.

You say it yourself final third of the season "we then stayed there" it was because our form was that good in the second third of the season, and most teams in the final third of the season stumbled almost as badly as us that ensured we did stay there. Had other teams like Bury and MK Dons not had major blips in form it wouldn't have even been up for discussion because they would have been out of sight early April.

Don't get me wrong it was an enjoyable season, I'd rather be at that end of the table now. But anyone saying that had we kept Flitcroft in charge we'd be up there fighting for promotion or even the title this season is delusional unless he had planned to make wholesale changes in the summer (imo his recruitment would have been similar to JD's and we'd be in the same position now). He had no plan B when his game plan got found out and had to go.

Either way respect yours and other view's and its good to have an open honest debate which is what this forum should be about

You can't just say turn all those wins into loses and we would have been mid table, so therefore the sacking of DF was justified. If we turn all JD home defeats into wins he's now a great manager and we should have kept him. Basically the club has spent a fortune in the last year going backwards and may need to spent plenty more in the next year to get us back where Flitcroft left us.