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Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby The One » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:11 pm

Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Spiritater » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:35 pm

'You'll never win anything with kids' was probably the phrase being muttered by the 'want it now' brigade as Liam, Leroy, Bob, Craig and Andy trotted out first time in 2001
Last edited by Spiritater on Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby garlic » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:42 pm

The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO

Totally disagree, you keep expecting someone - anyone but yourself - with deep pockets to keep forking out for players with decent reputations. And look where that has got us. Its only by doing what Crewe have been doing for years - and still are, and arent they quite high up in the league - that a club can be sustainably successful. Of course a backbone of solid, reliables like the Chief, are essential, but to keep expecting someone else to pay for your promotion dreams is very fanciful.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby The One » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:29 pm

garlic wrote:
The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO

Totally disagree, you keep expecting someone - anyone but yourself - with deep pockets to keep forking out for players with decent reputations. And look where that has got us. Its only by doing what Crewe have been doing for years - and still are, and arent they quite high up in the league - that a club can be sustainably successful. Of course a backbone of solid, reliables like the Chief, are essential, but to keep expecting someone else to pay for your promotion dreams is very fanciful.



Woah. Its not me been screaming for promotion, for the last 3 seasons its The Chairman and CEO with their Project Promotion and Championship ambitions.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby diablo » Fri Nov 29, 2019 8:49 am

Perhaps if the likes of Lincoln, MK ,and Accrington had developed their youth set up then they would might be higher up League 1 than they are! I am not suggesting we put out a team of ALL Youth players Man Utd tried that this week and came a cropper . what I am suggesting is a present and Future financial option of developing our own players ..its an ongoing exercise..this season we have seen the introduction Clarke, Smith, Knowles and Graham..and next season if they continue to develop they could become regular first team..with other youth players developing behind them..Of course we need seasoned pro's in the team but we have seen that doesn't always work as seen over the last couple of seasons.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Random Hero » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:19 am

Spiritater wrote:'You'll never win anything with kids' was probably the phrase being muttered by the 'want it now' brigade as Liam, Leroy, Bob, Craig and Andy trotted out first time in 2001


...said absolutely no one in 2001. Dullard.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMusings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:47 am

MK Dons have a pretty decent academy, or have had. They produced Dele Alli, George and Sam Baldock to name a few.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby The One » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:58 am

MTFCMusings wrote:MK Dons have a pretty decent academy, or have had. They produced Dele Alli, George and Sam Baldock to name a few.


Sorry been reading this out of context. I was referring to teams getting promotion withlots of youth in team. Needs to be experience too. If they are good enough youths they will play its that simple.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:57 am

Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-th ... league-two

I'd say that site is pretty bang on. It does seem to be based on last seasons figures. Interesting that, on average, we were the 5th highest payers behind MK, Bury, County and Swindon. So maybe we didn't have a top 3 budget as was being claimed?
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Dan » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:36 am

Owners of football clubs like to spout on about how they're the biggest spenders in the division so that it looks like they're backing their manager. Until that is it goes tits up then they try & take it back so it doesn't make them look foolish.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMusings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:41 am

Dan wrote:Owners of football clubs like to spout on about how they're the biggest spenders in the division so that it looks like they're backing their manager. Until that is it goes tits up then they try & take it back so it doesn't make them look foolish.


Our owners continue to state we have a top 3 budget, even though it is going 'tits up'.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Rob » Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:55 am

gazza1988 wrote:
Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-th ... league-two

I'd say that site is pretty bang on. It does seem to be based on last seasons figures. Interesting that, on average, we were the 5th highest payers behind MK, Bury, County and Swindon. So maybe we didn't have a top 3 budget as was being claimed?


I can't speak for that site itself and how reliable it is, but I always felt we had a top 7 budget but not top 3. I think whether you thought that or not tended to depend on whether you wanted the manager sacked or not! However, if this is reliable, it makes the very poor decision to sack DF look even worse - so not only did he guide us to our highest league position in 15 years, he over-achieved in terms of comparative budget. I suspect having already made one poor decision to sack a manager whcih I have no doubt they now regret they are reluctant to rush into sacking DF, so those who wanted DF sacked and now want JD sacked probably only have themselves to blame for it not happening yet :lol:
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby cassellswasmagic » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:57 pm

gazza1988 wrote:
Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-th ... league-two

I'd say that site is pretty bang on. It does seem to be based on last seasons figures. Interesting that, on average, we were the 5th highest payers behind MK, Bury, County and Swindon. So maybe we didn't have a top 3 budget as was being claimed?

That average is overpaid just like all the other divisions. I wish we could all get £1,200 a week for being average at work. Most can’t even cross a ball or shoot properly.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Spiritater » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:14 pm

Random Hero wrote:
Spiritater wrote:'You'll never win anything with kids' was probably the phrase being muttered by the 'want it now' brigade as Liam, Leroy, Bob, Craig and Andy trotted out first time in 2001


...said absolutely no one in 2001. Dullard.

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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby James » Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:28 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:
Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?

https://www.footy.com/footballers-vs-th ... league-two

I'd say that site is pretty bang on. It does seem to be based on last seasons figures. Interesting that, on average, we were the 5th highest payers behind MK, Bury, County and Swindon. So maybe we didn't have a top 3 budget as was being claimed?

That average is overpaid just like all the other divisions. I wish we could all get £1,200 a week for being average at work. Most can’t even cross a ball or shoot properly.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Great logic that.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Sedgwick » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:17 pm

The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO


People also need to realise the level of our youth team.... it's not that good. Yes they win the league a lot but the level is no where near first team. Occasionally you'll get a lad who's good enough but we cant rely on them yet.

Elsnik and Gordon both played in premier league two, the best youth league in the country and they are both league two level.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby gazza1988 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:28 pm

Whilst I think that site is bang on, we could have still had a high budget. That's average wage over the number of players in the squad. So if team A has 22 players averaging £1.9k a week and team B has 25 players averaging £1.8k a week. Team B would have the higher budget but their average wage is lower.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:31 pm

gazza1988 wrote:Whilst I think that site is bang on, we could have still had a high budget. That's average wage over the number of players in the squad. So if team A has 22 players averaging £1.9k a week and team B has 25 players averaging £1.8k a week. Team B would have the higher budget but their average wage is lower.


Let it go
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby weststander » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:13 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:
gazza1988 wrote:Whilst I think that site is bang on, we could have still had a high budget. That's average wage over the number of players in the squad. So if team A has 22 players averaging £1.9k a week and team B has 25 players averaging £1.8k a week. Team B would have the higher budget but their average wage is lower.


Let it go


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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Dan » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:52 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO


People also need to realise the level of our youth team.... it's not that good. Yes they win the league a lot but the level is no where near first team. Occasionally you'll get a lad who's good enough but we cant rely on them yet.

Elsnik and Gordon both played in premier league two, the best youth league in the country and they are both league two level.


You really do come out with some crap. :lol:
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:52 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:Owners of football clubs like to spout on about how they're the biggest spenders in the division so that it looks like they're backing their manager. Until that is it goes tits up then they try & take it back so it doesn't make them look foolish.


Our owners continue to state we have a top 3 budget, even though it is going 'tits up'.

Not read a lot lately as I get sick of all the constant negativity on here and it is hard to find the facts amongst the moaning and rumours, so can you provide a link to somewhere where it has been stated by our owners that we have a top 3 budget this year ?
I know it was stated when Dempster was appointed that he would have the same budget as last year, but even if we were top 3 last year that doesn't mean we are this year. 3 of last years highest payers may have gone (MK, Bury and County) but some big clubs came down from L2 and I cant imagine the ones that came up from the Conference are doing it on a shoestring. Therefore it is quite feasible that the same budget as last year leaves us in the position of having the 7th or 8th highest budget this season.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMusings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 pm

Dave Wayne wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:Owners of football clubs like to spout on about how they're the biggest spenders in the division so that it looks like they're backing their manager. Until that is it goes tits up then they try & take it back so it doesn't make them look foolish.


Our owners continue to state we have a top 3 budget, even though it is going 'tits up'.

Not read a lot lately as I get sick of all the constant negativity on here and it is hard to find the facts amongst the moaning and rumours, so can you provide a link to somewhere where it has been stated by our owners that we have a top 3 budget this year ?
I know it was stated when Dempster was appointed that he would have the same budget as last year, but even if we were top 3 last year that doesn't mean we are this year. 3 of last years highest payers may have gone (MK, Bury and County) but some big clubs came down from L2 and I cant imagine the ones that came up from the Conference are doing it on a shoestring. Therefore it is quite feasible that the same budget as last year leaves us in the position of having the 7th or 8th highest budget this season.


Yes, here you go : https://www.mansfieldtown.net/news/2019/october/ceos-monthly-column/

'The medals and trophies are never handed out in October. We have a top three budget and by the end of the season, we expect to be in the top three. There are 102 points to play for and much to be excited about at One Call Stadium.'
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Dave Wayne » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:21 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Dave Wayne wrote:
MTFCMusings wrote:
Dan wrote:Owners of football clubs like to spout on about how they're the biggest spenders in the division so that it looks like they're backing their manager. Until that is it goes tits up then they try & take it back so it doesn't make them look foolish.


Our owners continue to state we have a top 3 budget, even though it is going 'tits up'.

Not read a lot lately as I get sick of all the constant negativity on here and it is hard to find the facts amongst the moaning and rumours, so can you provide a link to somewhere where it has been stated by our owners that we have a top 3 budget this year ?
I know it was stated when Dempster was appointed that he would have the same budget as last year, but even if we were top 3 last year that doesn't mean we are this year. 3 of last years highest payers may have gone (MK, Bury and County) but some big clubs came down from L2 and I cant imagine the ones that came up from the Conference are doing it on a shoestring. Therefore it is quite feasible that the same budget as last year leaves us in the position of having the 7th or 8th highest budget this season.


Yes, here you go : https://www.mansfieldtown.net/news/2019/october/ceos-monthly-column/

'The medals and trophies are never handed out in October. We have a top three budget and by the end of the season, we expect to be in the top three. There are 102 points to play for and much to be excited about at One Call Stadium.'

Fair enough. Thank you.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Vice President » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:00 pm

garlic wrote:
The One wrote:
Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.


Ageed. Did accy lincoln Mk to name a few get up with youth? NO

Totally disagree, you keep expecting someone - anyone but yourself - with deep pockets to keep forking out for players with decent reputations. And look where that has got us. Its only by doing what Crewe have been doing for years - and still are, and arent they quite high up in the league - that a club can be sustainably successful. Of course a backbone of solid, reliables like the Chief, are essential, but to keep expecting someone else to pay for your promotion dreams is very fanciful.


You are conflating the facts with me paying actually for it. I am simply stating what is required. I never pretended that i could fund it. Being able to fund an idea is not a pre-requisite for giving an opinion on this message board - Otherwise we would all be excluded from giving a view. :roll:
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Vice President » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:05 pm

Spiritater wrote:'You'll never win anything with kids' was probably the phrase being muttered by the 'want it now' brigade as Liam, Leroy, Bob, Craig and Andy trotted out first time in 2001


Looking at the last 50 years, I think that history has shown 'exception to be the rule' on that one!
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