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Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Spiritater » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:18 am

Tick tock eh Yorkie :lol:
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die
Into the valley of Death
Rode the Six Hundred
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:07 am

yorkshire stag wrote:& so is he getting sacked this morning ?



let me ring the club, I'll find out and let you know :roll:
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby yorkshire stag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:08 am

bobbystagsfan wrote:
yorkshire stag wrote:& so is he getting sacked this morning ?



let me ring the club, I'll find out and let you know :roll:


nice one youth, I don’t think there will be anybody there though till about nine but it’s a great offer thanks
Our time will come
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:01 pm

Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby WVStag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:13 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?


Why should the criticism stop?
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:23 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?


Unless the club come out, back him, and state that the ambition is not promotion, he remains under pressure.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby BH_Stag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:32 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?


The objective was clearly set out as automatic promotion. He knew his remit and should be judged in line with that.

Moving the goalposts because we are underachieving and Dempster doesn’t seem up to the task won’t get us anywhere.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:11 pm

BH_Stag wrote:
EdwinstoweStag wrote:Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?


The objective was clearly set out as automatic promotion. He knew his remit and should be judged in line with that.

Moving the goalposts because we are underachieving and Dempster doesn’t seem up to the task won’t get us anywhere.



That may not be strictly correct. We were all TOLD promotion was the objective but that may not have been correct which could explain why he is still in post.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Foresttownstag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:17 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
BH_Stag wrote:
EdwinstoweStag wrote:Let’s all agree that promotion is not realistic this season.

Can we get off Dempster’s back ?


The objective was clearly set out as automatic promotion. He knew his remit and should be judged in line with that.

Moving the goalposts because we are underachieving and Dempster doesn’t seem up to the task won’t get us anywhere.



That may not be strictly correct. We were all TOLD promotion was the objective but that may not have been correct which could explain why he is still in post.


If the project wasn’t promotion and we’ve all been lied to I highly doubt JR would sanction the signings of Nicky Maynard and Andy Cook.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby diablo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:34 am

I don't think Maynard and Cook cost as much as people think. . Maynard is arguably nearing the end of his career and is obviously lacking a yard in pace and a few seconds off his prime reaction time compared to earlier years. A two year contract until Season end 2021 will see him retire or go into the lower Leagues so I see him as a stop gap Striker with a reasonable track record. Cook is an out and out Target man and is probably a better buy than Maynard however I think the long term plan is to produce local talent which is obviously starting to happen now. I think this is why we haven't seen Mr Dempster sacked as possibly a three year plan is underway . There isn't a magic money tree at the Mill and after years of pumping several millions into the pot I think "The plan" has been revised to the way forward is via the Youth set up
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby oldweststander » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:43 am

diablo wrote:I don't think Maynard and Cook cost as much as people think. . Maynard is arguably nearing the end of his career and is obviously lacking a yard in pace and a few seconds off his prime reaction time compared to earlier years. A two year contract until Season end 2021 will see him retire or go into the lower Leagues so I see him as a stop gap Striker with a reasonable track record. Cook is an out and out Target man and is probably a better buy than Maynard however I think the long term plan is to produce local talent which is obviously starting to happen now. I think this is why we haven't seen Mr Dempster sacked as possibly a three year plan is underway . There isn't a magic money tree at the Mill and after years of pumping several millions into the pot I think "The plan" has been revised to the way forward is via the Youth set up


This isn't an opinion so much as a guess, we don't know who is being paid what and what the plan is.

Currently, there seems to be no plan at all, other than to promote "her ladyship" at every opportunity.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Richard Cranium » Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:55 am

I bet Maynard is the highest paid player at the club and Cook cost 6 figures
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby BH_Stag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 10:00 am

Richard Cranium wrote:I bet Maynard is the highest paid player at the club and Cook cost 6 figures


Exactly. Imagine how many clubs will have been queuing up for Maynard on a free after the Bury situation...he’s here because he’s being paid top whack.

They were both brought in to provide fire power for promotion and our budget has been pretty much consistent on the face of things for 3 years now. It would be highly convenient for Dempster if all of a sudden the masterplan is now a 3 year youth plan just because we are massively underachieving under his management.
I can’t buy in to that opinion at all, they’re just taking a while to make the call.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby diablo » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:01 pm

How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Foresttownstag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:50 pm

diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMAD » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:59 pm

Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?


Top wage could be anything in today’s market.

Could imagine Doyle at Swindon getting over 4K easily.

Danny mayor will probably be on similar too.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby MTFCMusings » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:05 pm

We are paying higher wages than 3k a week I would assume. Anderson, Butcher, Walker last season, were all on more than that.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:06 pm

Didn't Cook come on a free transfer when his contract was up at Walsall?
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:09 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Didn't Cook come on a free transfer when his contract was up at Walsall?



No we paid a fee for him
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:13 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Didn't Cook come on a free transfer when his contract was up at Walsall?



No we paid a fee for him


Yes just looked it up - undisclosed. I think the fans weren't happy with him that he had chosen us over them but thought his contract was up.
Who are you calling pedantic? I resemble that remark!
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Foresttownstag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:36 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:
bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Didn't Cook come on a free transfer when his contract was up at Walsall?



No we paid a fee for him


Yes just looked it up - undisclosed. I think the fans weren't happy with him that he had chosen us over them but thought his contract was up.


It was around £100k I believe?

I know there was a lot of moaning going off at Walsall because the chairman wouldn’t put the money back into the playing squad.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Foresttownstag » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:37 pm

MTFCMAD wrote:
Foresttownstag wrote:
diablo wrote:How much do you think top Whack wages for a League 2 player are ? and what do you think he average wages are?


Top £3,000

Average £1,200?


Top wage could be anything in today’s market.

Could imagine Doyle at Swindon getting over 4K easily.

Danny mayor will probably be on similar too.


Agree it’s tough to judge isn’t it.

You could totally spin it and take into account Morecambes players who would probably be on around half the figures I put out above!
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby garlic » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:10 pm

diablo wrote:I don't think Maynard and Cook cost as much as people think. . Maynard is arguably nearing the end of his career and is obviously lacking a yard in pace and a few seconds off his prime reaction time compared to earlier years. A two year contract until Season end 2021 will see him retire or go into the lower Leagues so I see him as a stop gap Striker with a reasonable track record. Cook is an out and out Target man and is probably a better buy than Maynard however I think the long term plan is to produce local talent which is obviously starting to happen now. I think this is why we haven't seen Mr Dempster sacked as possibly a three year plan is underway . There isn't a magic money tree at the Mill and after years of pumping several millions into the pot I think "The plan" has been revised to the way forward is via the Youth set up

I hope you are right as the youth set is the only sustainable way for a club at our level to progress.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby Vice President » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:42 pm

Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.
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Re: Christmas could see us 3rd from bottom

Postby bobbystagsfan » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:45 pm

Vice President wrote:Youth set up is not the answer.
Teams that get promoted need the requisite amount of experience.
Teams that get relegated have often been forced to rely too much on youth.
More importantly - We can loan better youth players from other clubs in higher leagues.
I'm sorry ... but I just don't buy into this obsession with our youth team.



It's seen as a way for lower league clubs to earn money by producing their own talent and selling them for a big profit. Crewe are probably the best example of this kind of team, but nobody has any patience anymore. Everyone wants promotion and they want it now so most teams will just go out and try to buy/sign their way to promotion rather than developing their own players in the hope that they're good enough to make it to a higher level.
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