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Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:03 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Martin our understanding of racist comments clearly varies.

I suppose that's quite normal in society.

You recently revealed that you were working with law enforcement authorities to monitor racist comments on fan message boards. Perhaps, if possible, you could seek clarity with your contact and I confident you may be shocked at the result


Or instead of all that faffing we draw this thread to a close as there are too many sensitive souls
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:04 pm

Facts are not Hate Speech, Sandy Vag.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:39 pm

lou c wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
lou c wrote:damn right im questioning their integrity. they have clear racial bias personally and professionally.

Wow, do you know them personally?


Have a look at Mr Ifeanyi Odogwu's twitter feed. Tell me how many photographs of white people there are.

Not racially biased at all is it? The man appears to be completely obsessed with his racial identity and black activism. Whilst there may not be anything wrong with that i stand by my opinion that he was not impartial and should not have been allowed to sit on the panel in this case.

But judge for yourself. Its there for all to see


https://twitter.com/ifeanyiodogwu
Ok, that's the opinion you have formed.

As for Twitter I don't bother with that, so I will pass.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:55 pm

You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby NG17_stag » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:43 pm

They’re a very weird bunch of fans, still obsessed and all over our twitter when we lose. They threatened to play Chesterfield in pre-season games instead to get back at us, and seen a few mention how that would bankrupt us for the season. :lol: Why would Pearce go off like that over nothing? I know who I believe.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Steve North » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:46 pm

lou c wrote:You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol


You out burning crosses tonight by any chance pal ?
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Amber Andy » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:58 pm

lou c wrote:You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol

No you are free to form whatever opinion you want.

I simply don't agree with it.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:24 pm

Its all very vague Amber Andy. You havent viewed his twitter cos you dont do twitter?
you disagree with my opinion but can't say why -just that you do?

at least there are level headed people who can view things fairly and even if theyre too scared to say anything on here incase their loyalty to MTFC is questioned in some way or called racist etc. Know this for a fact they are out there. Forresteri might well be a penis and im not saying he isnt , but this thing with the FA stinks and thats a fact. its like trying to talk to members of a cult how some of you are brainwashed to react against anything that goes against your religion. You've got a black supremacist on a panel judging someone on a racism charge . Its like having Rudolf Hess trying someone for being Jewish . lol

shout out to sw19 and Billythefish for having the guts to speak up. and to Martin Shaw for being fair minded against the hysterical cry babies too

rest of you are dismissed
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby georgefostersbeard » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:33 pm

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."

Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:50 pm

"and youre another one paid to preach the religion of diversity GFB. blatantly ignoring or frightened to address Odogwu's obvious racial bias in the face of overwhelming evidence presented
, another shithouse."

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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Amber Andy » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:24 am

lou c wrote:Its all very vague Amber Andy. You havent viewed his twitter cos you dont do twitter?
you disagree with my opinion but can't say why -just that you do?

at least there are level headed people who can view things fairly and even if theyre too scared to say anything on here incase their loyalty to MTFC is questioned in some way or called racist etc. Know this for a fact they are out there. Forresteri might well be a penis and im not saying he isnt , but this thing with the FA stinks and thats a fact. its like trying to talk to members of a cult how some of you are brainwashed to react against anything that goes against your religion. You've got a black supremacist on a panel judging someone on a racism charge . Its like having Rudolf Hess trying someone for being Jewish . lol

shout out to sw19 and Billythefish for having the guts to speak up. and to Martin Shaw for being fair minded against the hysterical cry babies too

rest of you are dismissed
This issue is obviously very important to you and fair play to you for that.

Personally I'm happy for the FA to deal with it.

I'm sure the player in question has lawyers who will fight what they perceive as an injustice, especially if they have evidence to suggest the panel was biased in anyway.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby part time pete » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:38 am

Steve North wrote:
lou c wrote:You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol


You out burning crosses tonight by any chance pal ?


What’s the betting Lou c voted to leave the EU.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:50 am

lou c wrote:"and youre another one paid to preach the religion of diversity GFB. blatantly ignoring or frightened to address Odogwu's obvious racial bias in the face of overwhelming evidence presented
, another shithouse."

Lou C


So i will bite
You have said two people are unable to be objective because of their skin colour. You have then focused on one of them because you have found their twitter. I took some time to read it and i just think you don't like seeing pictures of black people. There is nothing on his twitter stream to suggest he is a black supremacist at all (you have just made that up)
You fail to mention that, as a barrister, he was involved in the Duncan Tomlin fighting for justice for a white man killed in police custody but that didn't fit your agenda.

Whilst most of what you have put is trolling and baiting posters calling Sandy Pate 'Sandy Vag' and me a shithouse, you have made racist comments which i am surprised have kept on. Your early posts stated as fact that a panel with two black people on it cannot be independent in this case. To claim someone is incapable of independent thought because solely of their skin colour is racist.

Can you also tell me how i am another one paid to preach the religion of diversity? I need to put some timesheets in
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Conker » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:13 am

part time pete wrote:
Steve North wrote:
lou c wrote:You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol


You out burning crosses tonight by any chance pal ?


What’s the betting Lou c voted to leave the EU.


No need to bring something like that up, I can only assume you want some bites.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby PRL13 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:21 am

Justice!
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:27 am

Forestieri's appeal would have been based on a point of law mainly that the FA Regulatory Commission had incorrectly interpreted and applied the FA's Disciplinary Regulations.

The two key Regulations were:

Regulation 23
“The fact that a Participant is liable to face or has pending any other criminal, civil, disciplinary or regulatory proceedings (whether public or private in nature) in relation to the same matter shall not prevent or fetter The Association conducting proceedings under the Rules.”

Regulation 24
“The result of those proceedings and findings upon which such result is based shall be presumed to be correct and true unless it is shown, by clear and convincing evidence, that this is not the case.”

Forestieri's lawyer argued that as the District Judge in Mansfield Magistrates Ct had found that the prosecution had not proved beyond reasonable doubt that Forestieri had committed an offence under the Public Order Act 1986 then this prevented the FA from finding him guilty of misconduct under its disciplinary rules unless there is "clear and convincing evidence".

However the Regulatory Commission held that clear and convincing evidence was not necessary as the District Judge's "findings" were as follows:

a. “Mr Pearce has in my judgment provided clear and consistent evidence that on the pitch he was called a nigger…I am satisfied beyond any doubt that Mr Pearce was of the view he was called a nigger – his loss of concentration and emotional reaction together with what is said in the aftermath persuades me of this.”
b. “In fairness to Forestieri he likewise has provided clear and consistent testimony as to what occurred and whilst he may feel it is alright [sic] to insult Mr Pearce’s mother he would not use the word nigger”.
c. “So I left with two credible witnesses who have given consistent but differing accounts as to what occurred.”

The District Judge expressed himself sure that KP “believed he was called a nigger”. However, he concluded that in the absence of direct corroboration of KP’s account and in light of Forestieri's “language difficulties”, he had “to accept it is possible, albeit it is in my judgment unlikely, that Mr Pearce was mistaken.” Therefore, he found himself not sure that the case was proved [beyond reasonable doubt].

The Regulatory Commission held from the above that the District Judge had found that it was likely or probable that Krystian Pearce's account that Forestieri had called him a nigger was correct.

This is a civil matter so the burden of proof is that the FA has to prove its case on the balance of probabilities and not beyond reasonable doubt. A famous example of this is OJ Simpson where he was found not guilty by a criminal court of murdering his ex wife and her friend but a civil court later held on the balance of probabilities that he was responsible for their wrongful deaths and battery and ordered him to pay $33 million in damages.

The Regulatory Commission concluded that based on the evidence it was satisfied that Forestieri had probably called Krystian Pearce a nigger. It preferred KP's evidence to Forestieri's evidence. It's factual conclusions were as follows:

"60. We are satisfied that Forestieri probably called KP a nigger for the following reasons:

a. First, KP’s reaction, as seen on the pitch, was immediate and genuine and obvious to see on the footage. It is consistent with his believing he’d heard something which offended him greatly. We are alive to the point that such a reaction is also consistent with KP making an immediate (but honest) mistake. However, in answer to that, his consistency does not stand alone. It is supported by other matters probative of nigger being said.

b. Second, the issue of possible mistake. No one suggested he was lying and had made up the alleged words. Forestieri's case was that he must have made a genuine mistake. We acknowledge that the two men were apart and KP had his back to Forestieri. However, we are satisfied that KP heard the word nigger clearly. As to the language issue, on our analysis of the evidence and the Spanish words used by Forestieri, we can see no reasonable or sensible room for mistake. Not one of those words, when spoken by Forestieri in Spanish, sounded, when spoken in Spanish remotely like the English word nigger. Nor, are we satisfied, would they if shouted or spoken in a heated way.

c. Third, KP as a witness. It may not be entirely helpful to describe a witness as “credible” where there is no suggestion they are lying. We found KP to be honest (not in dispute), clear and consistent, who gave his evidence in a quietly understated way. His evidence was, in our assessment, compelling. It was both clear and it was convincing.

d. Fourth, we did not reach the same conclusion in respect of Forestieri as a witness. We reject his claim that he cannot or does not switch from Spanish to English and does not use the English language when heated or in temper or angry. During his evidence (as his Counsel identified) he interposed an English word in a Spanish sentence. We appreciate that he was calm before us. However, he did not dispute using the word “raspberries” on the pitch during the incident. He denied to us that he was angry at that time. We reject that assertion also: he admitted in interview that he was angry. Further, being angry is also consistent with his abusing KP at that very moment (with “gooseberry face” and “son of a bitch”).

e. Fifth, and it flows from the last point, his use of another offence noun (nigger) towards KP at that time is entirely in context of how he was behaving at the material time. On his own account he was abusing him at the very moment. We are satisfied that that fact, his admission in interview and his conduct on the pitch (after the incident, he committed a bad tackle which caused the melee and might well have led to a red card) that he was angry.

f. Sixth, the use of the word nigger in English as a term of abuse is explicable. As he said in evidence, there is no such word in Spanish.

g. Seventh, we accept KP’s evidence that he accused Forestieri on the pitch of being racist. He pointed out to on the footage the moment he did so. That Forestieri said he did to hear that does not undermine that point"
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:48 am

Don't mis-represent me GFB, sir.

Your initial post tried to make out i said they couldnt be independent solely because they were black. That was set straight at the start. It isn't *because* they are black it's because they're paid in a professional capacity by the anti-racism industry. The anti racism industry in this country isnt really concerned with black on white racism, it doesn't work like that and you know it doesn't.
To repeat that slur twice is debating in bad faith.

The only reason Odogwu mentioned the white kid - and you were desperate to find *any* mention of any white people on his twitter to come back with , and he's one of the very few- was because he died in police custody. And the reason he's interested in campaigning about deaths in police custody is......? (tweet quote) "We cannot ignore the role of institutional racism and racist stereotyping when looking at the disproportionate number of young black men dying after the use of force by police." So there it is. It isnt the fact that men die in police custody that he's really bothered about. Its that *black men* die in police custody that is his primary concern.

I suppose Malcolm X who he idolises wasn't a black supremacist either and i just made that up too? Oh dear Will, i mean Georgey.

Tell me how many white sport stars did you see on his twitter? None. Why? Because they arent black. Lots and lots of black sportspeople on his twitter that he adores. Why? because they are black.

Everything and i mean EVERYTHING he sees, he says, and he does is viewed through the prism of race. Odogwu is actually more racist than Forresteri, he's just more savvy with how he expresses it.

I will not go into your employment on here as it's not right or fair. But i know you have to be very careful not to upset the Religion of Diversity Cult as it would be detrimental to your career, so it might be better for you to keep your mouth shut , there's a good boy.

For the normal people who don't have their hands tied and are capable of Independent thought I post the link to Odogwu's twitter again. I ask you to judge for yourselves where this mans priorities lie. Thank you.

https://twitter.com/ifeanyiodogwu?lang=en
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby georgefostersbeard » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:14 am

lou c wrote:Don't mis-represent me GFB, sir.

Your initial post tried to make out i said they couldnt be independent solely because they were black. That was set straight at the start. It isn't *because* they are black it's because they're paid in a professional capacity by the anti-racism industry. The anti racism industry in this country isnt really concerned with black on white racism, it doesn't work like that and you know it doesn't.
To repeat that slur twice is debating in bad faith.

The only reason Odogwu mentioned the white kid - and you were desperate to find *any* mention of any white people on his twitter to come back with , and he's one of the very few- was because he died in police custody. And the reason he's interested in campaigning about deaths in police custody is......? (retweet quote) "We cannot ignore the role of institutional racism and racist stereotyping when looking at the disproportionate number of young black men dying after the use of force by police." So there it is. It isnt the fact that men die in police custody that he's really bothered about. Its that *black men* die in police custody that is his primary concern.

I suppose Malcolm X who he idolises wasn't a black supremacist either and i just made that up too? Oh dear Will, i mean Georgey.

Tell me how many white sport stars did you see on his twitter? None. Why? Because they arent black. Lots and lots of black sportspeople on his twitter that he adores. Why? because they are black.

Everything and i mean EVERYTHING he sees, he says, and he does is viewed through the prism of race. Odogwu is actually more racist than Forresteri, he's just more savvy with how he expresses it.

I will not go into your employment on here as it's not right or fair. But i know you have to be very careful not to upset the Religion of Diversity Cult as it would be detrimental to your career, so it might be better for you to keep your mouth shut , there's a good boy.

For the normal people who don't have their hands tied and are capable of Independent thought I post the link to Odogwu's twitter again. I ask you to judge for yourselves where this mans priorities lie. Thank you.

https://twitter.com/ifeanyiodogwu?lang=en


I will walk away from this as this is nonsense. Half of what you claim him to have posted is nonsense and your issue appears to be a black man posting about other black people.

A poster who has only been on the forum for one month and appears to be threatening me based upon my career, using my first name and alluding to issues if I were to post on here for me professionally makes me wonder which banned poster has re-emerged.

Just for clarity and for those who actually give a monkey's - I am Will Lord from Stags fans for Change and Stags Fans united, I am the Head teacher of a large primary school which supports Kick it out and Stonewall amongst many charities such as Brake, the Brain tumour trust, MacMillan, Comic Relief and Children in Need. If that makes my views unpalatable then so be it.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:28 am

George Ok you've done your little virtue signal dance. Post it up in the staffroom and email it to the NUT. You tried bless you, but you've not made any credible points or rebutted any facts presented. You've been owned sunshine. Just go now, i hate long goodbyes.

Enjoy the match.
Last edited by lou c on Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby Robstag38 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:44 am

Ok I’ll say it... ‘Lou c’ is a raspberry. Ignore him
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:46 am

Robstag38 wrote:Ok I’ll say it... ‘Lou c’ is a raspberry. Ignore him


Everybody listen to me . Ignore him. Is that all you've got? :lol:
Last edited by lou c on Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:47 am

lou c wrote:
Robstag38 wrote:Ok I’ll say it... ‘Lou c’ is a raspberry. Ignore him


Everybody listen to me . Ignore him :lol:


You’re certainly titter fodder
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby lou c » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:53 am

Titter ye not! ;)

I've made my point Edwin. If anyone has the wherewithal or desire to discuss this further in an adult manner then go for it. Until then i'll leave you with the inane slaverings of the bodysnatchers.

:coys:
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby manssmooth » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:47 pm

part time pete wrote:
Steve North wrote:
lou c wrote:You don't have to be signed up to twitter to see his profile on there. Am i wrong to form the opinion i have ? People such as Malcolm X other black activists and black politics fill his page. And you're telling me you think the dude is Independent and fit to judge someone accused of a racism charge against a black man? Seriously?

It wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't actually know KP in real life. It;s outrageous.

Await to see the if the appeal transcript is released. At least Robert Mugabe won't be on it much to the FA's disappointment - and Sandy Vag lol


You out burning crosses tonight by any chance pal ?


What’s the betting Lou c voted to leave the EU.


Meaning?
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Re: Fernando Forestieri banned for 6 games

Postby part time pete » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:55 pm

Not every one who voted leave is a racist, but every racist would have voted leave.
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