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Re: JD

Postby MTFCMusings » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:20 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:posted this evening by Steve Hymas on facebook:

Steven Hymas
heres the truth ..
There has to be a long term plan for the club.over 4 years ago the chairman asked me to get back involved with the club and help expand the youth set up with fellow director Mark Hawkins.This system is now the talk of the midlands and self sustainable .
John Dempster was just finishing his playing career and was pivotal in its success.
We knew it would take 5years to produce our own players.
In the interim we built The RH academy which is now self sustainable.
John Dempster was gaining experience as the years went on and was earmarked for the managers role .He had offers but stuck with us and showed loyalty to the club.
The final phase is to bring young players into the first team to make the club more sustainable and hopefully some would progress up the pyramid .
Who better to do that than John Dempster .
With DF s failure last term the opportunity was taken to promote him to the helm .
We thought the fans would warm to him being one of our own and hopefully young players would be future .
Other clubs like Crewe and Colchester use this model and played at a higher level .
That is still the plan if folk will let it happen and not hound the man out .


I don't think Crewe or Colchester got promoted to a higher league with a rookie manager. If JD is so good at developing youth players into first team players (which there is zero evidence of thus far) then why not leave him to do that?

The idea is commendable but the youth players we have seen are not ready for first team football.

Also, is this the board admitting that promotion was not the target this season, despite what Mr Radford told us all at the start of the season?
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Re: JD

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:28 pm

MTFCMusings wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:posted this evening by Steve Hymas on facebook:

Steven Hymas
heres the truth ..
There has to be a long term plan for the club.over 4 years ago the chairman asked me to get back involved with the club and help expand the youth set up with fellow director Mark Hawkins.This system is now the talk of the midlands and self sustainable .
John Dempster was just finishing his playing career and was pivotal in its success.
We knew it would take 5years to produce our own players.
In the interim we built The RH academy which is now self sustainable.
John Dempster was gaining experience as the years went on and was earmarked for the managers role .He had offers but stuck with us and showed loyalty to the club.
The final phase is to bring young players into the first team to make the club more sustainable and hopefully some would progress up the pyramid .
Who better to do that than John Dempster .
With DF s failure last term the opportunity was taken to promote him to the helm .
We thought the fans would warm to him being one of our own and hopefully young players would be future .
Other clubs like Crewe and Colchester use this model and played at a higher level .
That is still the plan if folk will let it happen and not hound the man out .


I don't think Crewe or Colchester got promoted to a higher league with a rookie manager. If JD is so good at developing youth players into first team players (which there is zero evidence of thus far) then why not leave him to do that?

The idea is commendable but the youth players we have seen are not ready for first team football.

Also, is this the board admitting that promotion was not the target this season, despite what Mr Radford told us all at the start of the season?


If this is the boards/clubs strategy then I'm soooo glad I didn't get a ST to watch a team going through the motions waiting for their place to be took by the youth.

After saying that I actually think he may have posted that while spannered. I watched the youth team in the cup last season and to be brutally honest they were woeful, if Steve thinks any of them on show that night will progress to the first team then he's definitely deluded.
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Re: JD

Postby tuopolfpilf » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:55 pm

Surely a YHead outh Development is a valuable commodity to MTFC its future, why waste that ? Stick with it and be patient.
Unsure of JD record being Youth Team Manager?
But I am sure it's a totally different ball game being 1st Team Manager and unfortunately imo it is not a role currently suitable for JD
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Re: JD

Postby Chrisuknottm » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:01 pm

It's like going into a casino and deciding you're going to bet every spin of the roulette wheel on a certain number....yes it might come up sometime at some point but just because you believe it's true in your own mind doesn't make it happen. For Steve Hymas to say they groomed JD 4 years ago to be manager within a framework of the EFL is absolute rubbish. They didn't know what was ever going to happen. What if DF had succeeded and taken us up...was JD still always going to be his successor in League One with no managerial experience. Don't you just love it when you're patted on the head and told to be good little supporters because you don't have an iota of intelligence and because "we are always right".

Well you're not and this appointment is going to bring everything crashing down. Bring on Tuesday now !!
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Re: JD

Postby BH_Stag » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:17 pm

Whilst Crewe do have a great youth set up and have produced a lot of players in recent years, which should be the aim for any youth set up, they are still playing in League two, so there’s a balance to be had here in my opinion.

It’s all well and good saying Dempster has always been earmarked for the job and that fans may warm to him, but regardless of that it boils down to whether or not we are seriously after promotion this season. If we are, there’s a decision to make, and it may be a tough one where the board have to swallow their pride a bit. If we aren’t and we’re happy for him to learn the ropes then fine if that has to be the case so be it, but tell people that from the outset, lower expectations, and perhaps you wouldn’t get the reaction we’re having now. I’m not convinced that’s the case though given we have a top budget and signed 2 top strikers.
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Re: JD

Postby bobbystagsfan » Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:33 pm

Jimstag wrote:The logic makes sense but is it working?
To answer that what’s the target for Dempster this year? Promotion or build a team from the youth squad.



Seems like both are the objectives which would be hard for an experienced manager nevermind a rookie one.
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Re: JD

Postby tillydog123 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:00 am

Steve Hymas post makes real sense from that detailed perspective of a kind of long term plan but seems at odds with JR and CR ethos of being desperate for promotion.

The generation fans of today want everything at once and the latest cars /gadgets and I phones etc and are not prepared for the wait for anything too much, hence a lot of vitriolic comment along the way about lack of success so far this season.

We need to find the middle ground more and think JD is a very loyal and thoroughly decent guy but the marker is.... Can he do the job?
I am not sure he can but willing to give him another 4 or 5 games.?

Adam Murray, Paul Cox and DF were all decent and loyal too!!.
The orrible detestable fat guy who was NOT decent and NOT loyal looked to be sending us in the right direction !!


Discuss!!
Last edited by tillydog123 on Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JD

Postby stagsfan6493 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:18 am

Hymas is driving this club into the ground.
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Re: JD

Postby Chander Lear » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:27 am

stagsfan6493 wrote:Hymas is driving this club into the ground.


lol OK.
He's a board member with his own personal views. It takes a whole board decision to implement any of those views.
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Re: JD

Postby Hjeldefan » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:29 am

Are we even bringing through the youth though? On deadline day we went and got a striker in on loan who has done nothing when we have Knowles banging the goals in at youth. It feels like steve is using this as an excuse for dumpsters awful management.
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Re: JD

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:33 am

Has Steve deleted the post?
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Re: JD

Postby Vice President » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:36 am

Martin Shaw wrote:posted this evening by Steve Hymas on facebook:

Steven Hymas
heres the truth ..
There has to be a long term plan for the club.over 4 years ago the chairman asked me to get back involved with the club and help expand the youth set up with fellow director Mark Hawkins.This system is now the talk of the midlands and self sustainable .
John Dempster was just finishing his playing career and was pivotal in its success.
We knew it would take 5years to produce our own players.
In the interim we built The RH academy which is now self sustainable.
John Dempster was gaining experience as the years went on and was earmarked for the managers role .He had offers but stuck with us and showed loyalty to the club.
The final phase is to bring young players into the first team to make the club more sustainable and hopefully some would progress up the pyramid .
Who better to do that than John Dempster .
With DF s failure last term the opportunity was taken to promote him to the helm .
We thought the fans would warm to him being one of our own and hopefully young players would be future .
Other clubs like Crewe and Colchester use this model and played at a higher level .
That is still the plan if folk will let it happen and not hound the man out .



I'm sorry - I just don't buy into this obsession with the youth team. And if JD was so good at developing youth, then he should have stayed in that role. I like JD as a person, and I really hope it works out for him, but it was always a massive gamble and I can't understand why the club didn't even look at any other candidates.
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Re: JD

Postby Stags 2002 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am

Chander Lear wrote:
stagsfan6493 wrote:Hymas is driving this club into the ground.


lol OK.
He's a board member with his own personal views. It takes a whole board decision to implement any of those views.


Agreed but also depends on how much influence Steve exerts over his peers within the boardroom.
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Re: JD

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:55 am

Don't forget this is coming from a man who wanted Zayn Hakeem starting games at the end of last season, who was released a month later.
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Re: JD

Postby Chrisuknottm » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:02 am

Gibbons made a great debut last season then didn't feature again and has now gone to Boston.

In the Leyton Orient game Smith was the worst most ineffectual substitute I've ever seen....he touched the ball once in 30 minutes.

Jimmy K buzzed around when he played for ten minutes and at least had life but where are all the other academy products in the last two years?

You can only play youth if they are better than what you have. Are ours?. You can't just say play the kids if they aren't the required class.
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Re: JD

Postby Sedgwick » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:52 am

Our youth recruitment policy is getting players released by other clubs. The chance they will then be good enough is even smaller.

We need to go out and find the best talent in our area rather than taking in all the players turning up to the exit trials... Some will be released and come good at another club like clucas but it's an incredibly slim chance. On current evidence the club don't have a youth star or any that are good enough for the first team.
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Re: JD

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:22 pm

Vice President wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:posted this evening by Steve Hymas on facebook:

Steven Hymas
heres the truth ..
There has to be a long term plan for the club.over 4 years ago the chairman asked me to get back involved with the club and help expand the youth set up with fellow director Mark Hawkins.This system is now the talk of the midlands and self sustainable .
John Dempster was just finishing his playing career and was pivotal in its success.
We knew it would take 5years to produce our own players.
In the interim we built The RH academy which is now self sustainable.
John Dempster was gaining experience as the years went on and was earmarked for the managers role .He had offers but stuck with us and showed loyalty to the club.
The final phase is to bring young players into the first team to make the club more sustainable and hopefully some would progress up the pyramid .
Who better to do that than John Dempster .
With DF s failure last term the opportunity was taken to promote him to the helm .
We thought the fans would warm to him being one of our own and hopefully young players would be future .
Other clubs like Crewe and Colchester use this model and played at a higher level .
That is still the plan if folk will let it happen and not hound the man out .



I'm sorry - I just don't buy into this obsession with the youth team. And if JD was so good at developing youth, then he should have stayed in that role. I like JD as a person, and I really hope it works out for him, but it was always a massive gamble and I can't understand why the club didn't even look at any other candidates.



Exactly. If JD is a good coach, he should be able to coach the first team, any first team. Fact that he was successful at youth level, but then has gone backwards at first team level is for me, down to his personality and lack of leadership ability. At youth level they are playing for their careers, managing a 30 year old man is quite different.

As said before, he's a 'steady Eddie', a doer, not a leader or a decision maker. Some people just aren't made for these roles despite their technical ability.
You've got to go there and come back, to know where you've been.
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Re: JD

Postby dazstag » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:29 pm

surely with the plan of him being manager eventually dempster should have been given last season as an assistant to flitcroft to prepare him for the role?
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Re: JD

Postby Sheffieldstag » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:42 pm

I know this may sound daft but many club owners are happy in the division they are in, challenging for promotion, top half. To get promoted means an increase in investment, salaries, bonuses, police presence etc and some owners just don't want to make that commitment.

I hope this is not the case but I was told that if we go up we need another £1 million investment to be competitive. JR is not willing to make this investment himself and wants another investor on board to support the future.

This is probably part of the reason JD was appointed as part of a long term strategy.
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Re: JD

Postby WVStag » Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:45 pm

It just gets more daft as it goes on this whole sorry saga, doesn't it.

The premise of the plans Hymas lays out in his latest FB monologue is obviously a decent one on paper, but in practice is not the approach to get promoted. As someone has already said it doesn't align itself with the '#ProjectPromotion' Carolyn likes to go on about. It only serves to confuse us as fans about what the actual goals and expectations are.

JD is clearly going nowhere, and neither will our season.
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Re: JD

Postby Vice President » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:35 pm

WVStag wrote:It just gets more daft as it goes on this whole sorry saga, doesn't it.

The premise of the plans Hymas lays out in his latest FB monologue is obviously a decent one on paper, but in practice is not the approach to get promoted. As someone has already said it doesn't align itself with the '#ProjectPromotion' Carolyn likes to go on about. It only serves to confuse us as fans about what the actual goals and expectations are.

JD is clearly going nowhere, and neither will our season.


I appreciate that Steve Hymas is investing a lot in the club. However, his idea that the youth team will be the basis for the first team and that it will provide sustainability for the club is very, very misguided in my opinion. There is a huge gulf between the first team and the youth team. Very few youth players will ever make it to the first team, let alone be a 'cash cow' for the club. Furthermore, if JD was being groomed as the future manager, then why wasn't he developed properly (i.e. as a coach/assistant of the first team, rather than thrown in at the deep end with insufficient first team experience?). If the strategy was to marry the youth and first team and simultaneously promote JD, then it was flawed on so many levels.
If this is the top level decision making - then I am very concerned.
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Re: JD

Postby WVStag » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:42 pm

Vice President wrote:
WVStag wrote:It just gets more daft as it goes on this whole sorry saga, doesn't it.

The premise of the plans Hymas lays out in his latest FB monologue is obviously a decent one on paper, but in practice is not the approach to get promoted. As someone has already said it doesn't align itself with the '#ProjectPromotion' Carolyn likes to go on about. It only serves to confuse us as fans about what the actual goals and expectations are.

JD is clearly going nowhere, and neither will our season.


I appreciate that Steve Hymas is investing a lot in the club. However, his idea that the youth team will be the basis for the first team and that it will provide sustainability for the club is very, very misguided in my opinion. There is a huge gulf between the first team and the youth team. Very few youth players will ever make it to the first team, let alone be a 'cash cow' for the club. Furthermore, if JD was being groomed as the future manager, then why wasn't he developed properly (i.e. as a coach/assistant of the first team, rather than thrown in at the deep end with insufficient first team experience?). If the strategy was to marry the youth and first team and simultaneously promote JD, then it was flawed on so many levels.
If this is the top level decision making - then I am very concerned.


Totally agree.
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Re: JD

Postby Captain Cunno » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:45 pm

I'd rather we have appointed JD and not splashed out on Cook Maynard etc but just consolidated by bringing youth through to balance the books a little after spending big 3 seasons in a row.

I feel we would all have given JD more slack if we knew this was the case....

Contrasting opinions on objectives coming from the board aren't helping....
These are my opinions , if you don't like them I have others...
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Re: JD

Postby Chrisuknottm » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:38 pm

Captain Cunno wrote:I'd rather we have appointed JD and not splashed out on Cook Maynard etc but just consolidated by bringing youth through to balance the books a little after spending big 3 seasons in a row.

I feel we would all have given JD more slack if we knew this was the case....

Contrasting opinions on objectives coming from the board aren't helping....


Aaaaaaaaarrrrggggghhhhhh but they're not good enough....there's not a single one made the grade in over two years
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Re: JD

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:36 pm

I’ve just watched JD’s pre-Cambridge interview. I wasn’t inspired.
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