Steve Hymas

[adamstag]

I think the thread is quite disrespectful to Steve. No one knows the in and outs of the situation when he parted ways to AFC, but the fact of the matter is, he is back and his putting his own cash into the club. He's used his own resources for the Woburn site as well as building Amber Grove for club funds and not personal gain.

Obviously, he has a vested interest in the Youth Team. It was/is his baby in terms of the club. Why wouldn't he want it to succeed? Surely we all do?

It seems to me that people cannot wait to stick the boot in as soon as they get a chance.

Spot on, these folk need to have a look at themselves.

The same Steve Hymas who helped save the club after Haslam left the club on its backside?

Whereas no-one is above some criticism if they've done something wrong if there's anyone on here who really think the abuse that he or the Radfords get is fair, remember a word that is 4 letters long

BURY

Be exceedingly careful what you wish for.

[Jamie]

Abuse in whatever form isn't right or acceptable. But people have the right to comment and criticise things the manager, directors, owners etc do with OUR club.

JR has rightly had stick for his management choices, both recently and in the past, Lets not forget Hymas and Saunders tried to sue the club, Steve to be fair did come to his senses and has written off some of his debt i believe.

If you want comparisons with Bury you don't have to look much further than our own situation. We owe way more to OneCall than Bury owe, we don't own our ground. Its only the hope that JR / OneCall won't ever need or demand that money back that means we are even able to continue as a business. In light of whats happened to Bury, happening to Bolton, nearly happened to County / Chesterfield, i think its time the fan base started to demand more clarity with regards to the management of our debts and the terms behind them. It can't be right that one person / company has our future by the balls. This is exactly what has backfired at other clubs.

I've never liked the way he loaned money to the club with no clarity over repayment or terms. Its a huge huge risk, only mitigated by the fact that he's a good guy, a local person, a supporter, and has the resources not to need the money back... But things change and if they ever do we're screwed and everyone will be wondering how / why we let this happen after all we went through with Haslam and the shambles that followed him.

[Conker]

Loaned money cannot be contributed to the 55% rule in the league, so I imagine a lot of it comes in via sponsorship now but during the conference days that is how we were funded.

[arsene wengers coat]

Yes pay all your money to keep the great unwashed on the dole or enjoy your life in a sunny climate ,doh

Whilst not wishing to be controversial, I truly believe that our tax system is wrong when most of us get stung with PAYE, whilst others pay what they volunteer and hide and cheat their way to lower bills.

In respect of Spanish Stag's post, I would like to point out that no-one pays their money to keep the great unwashed. That money belongs to the government as it is what is owed in taxation.

If everyone paid what is due, taxation would not be the burden it currently is.

I did my thesis on the role of taxation.

In his most famous work, Anarchy, State, and Utopia (1974), Robert Nozick argued that income taxes are “on a par with forced labour,” because they force a “person to work X amount of hours for another's purpose and gain.”

Nozick can argue all he wants, it doesn't mean he is correct. We all contribute (or should do) for the benefit of society and to pay for the things that are essential for a stable and civilised existence. Try independent living without those benefits and you would probably be dead in a couple of weeks, either murdered or from drinking polluted water.

The people are society so how can you be a slave to yourself?

For what it's worth, I prefer the work of John Rawls (1973) and his Maximin rule, whereby he argues that if you had to design a society bit didn't know your own position in it before you joined, you would seek to maximize the position of those who are worst off in it. This ensures you are best off if you land I the worst position - a 'maximum minimum'.

This applies to tax also.

[mousemousemouse]

Yes pay all your money to keep the great unwashed on the dole or enjoy your life in a sunny climate ,doh

Whilst not wishing to be controversial, I truly believe that our tax system is wrong when most of us get stung with PAYE, whilst others pay what they volunteer and hide and cheat their way to lower bills.

In respect of Spanish Stag's post, I would like to point out that no-one pays their money to keep the great unwashed. That money belongs to the government as it is what is owed in taxation.

If everyone paid what is due, taxation would not be the burden it currently is.

"What is due" is extremely subjective. Pension schemes are often billed as lowering tax payments because they're taken prior to PAYE. That's a tax loophole that people use, are they still paying "what is due"?

The Average Joe can lower their tax burden quite easily. Many just see large numbers thrown around and think there is a huge level of injustice when Amazon pay a much lower tax percent than others.

I'm not wholly convinced the Radfords have moved to Portugal for tax reasons, though. Their tax structure is extremely similar to ours, and often means people are paying more.

Also, the Radfords One Call business is paying around 8-9mill in corporation tax + the employees paying 300,000 collectively on their income per year for tax as well. Add in all the personal tax the directors pay on income and dividends, then we could presume around 10mill in tax a year.

So if they want to shave 100k a year odd their own tax bill then do it. They probably pump more into the economy than most (cars, houses, flights etc etc)

The issue I think people have, deep down, is that "it's unfair" that they're now living in portugal "sunning it up"

[Sandy Pate Best Stag]

Yes pay all your money to keep the great unwashed on the dole or enjoy your life in a sunny climate ,doh

Whilst not wishing to be controversial, I truly believe that our tax system is wrong when most of us get stung with PAYE, whilst others pay what they volunteer and hide and cheat their way to lower bills.

In respect of Spanish Stag's post, I would like to point out that no-one pays their money to keep the great unwashed. That money belongs to the government as it is what is owed in taxation.

If everyone paid what is due, taxation would not be the burden it currently is.

"What is due" is extremely subjective. Pension schemes are often billed as lowering tax payments because they're taken prior to PAYE. That's a tax loophole that people use, are they still paying "what is due"?

The Average Joe can lower their tax burden quite easily. Many just see large numbers thrown around and think there is a huge level of injustice when Amazon pay a much lower tax percent than others.

I'm not wholly convinced the Radfords have moved to Portugal for tax reasons, though. Their tax structure is extremely similar to ours, and often means people are paying more.

Also, the Radfords One Call business is paying around 8-9mill in corporation tax + the employees paying 300,000 collectively on their income per year for tax as well. Add in all the personal tax the directors pay on income and dividends, then we could presume around 10mill in tax a year.

So if they want to shave 100k a year odd their own tax bill then do it. They probably pump more into the economy than most (cars, houses, flights etc etc)

The issue I think people have, deep down, is that "it's unfair" that they're now living in portugal "sunning it up"

I wasn't talking about the Radfords in my little rant but about the average business man who puts most things down to business expenses even when it's totally inappropriate. We have all heard the stories of the little tax fiddles and there are plenty of huge ginormous ones as well.

If anyone thinks our taxation system is fair on the average working man, then I say they don't know much about it. Anyway this is not the forum for this debate but I would just like to emphasise my comments were not aimed at the Radfords personally as I have no idea what they do or do not pay.

[mousemousemouse]

Yes pay all your money to keep the great unwashed on the dole or enjoy your life in a sunny climate ,doh

Whilst not wishing to be controversial, I truly believe that our tax system is wrong when most of us get stung with PAYE, whilst others pay what they volunteer and hide and cheat their way to lower bills.

In respect of Spanish Stag's post, I would like to point out that no-one pays their money to keep the great unwashed. That money belongs to the government as it is what is owed in taxation.

If everyone paid what is due, taxation would not be the burden it currently is.

"What is due" is extremely subjective. Pension schemes are often billed as lowering tax payments because they're taken prior to PAYE. That's a tax loophole that people use, are they still paying "what is due"?

The Average Joe can lower their tax burden quite easily. Many just see large numbers thrown around and think there is a huge level of injustice when Amazon pay a much lower tax percent than others.

I'm not wholly convinced the Radfords have moved to Portugal for tax reasons, though. Their tax structure is extremely similar to ours, and often means people are paying more.

Also, the Radfords One Call business is paying around 8-9mill in corporation tax + the employees paying 300,000 collectively on their income per year for tax as well. Add in all the personal tax the directors pay on income and dividends, then we could presume around 10mill in tax a year.

So if they want to shave 100k a year odd their own tax bill then do it. They probably pump more into the economy than most (cars, houses, flights etc etc)

The issue I think people have, deep down, is that "it's unfair" that they're now living in portugal "sunning it up"

I wasn't talking about the Radfords in my little rant but about the average business man who puts most things down to business expenses even when it's totally inappropriate. We have all heard the stories of the little tax fiddles and there are plenty of huge ginormous ones as well.

If anyone thinks our taxation system is fair on the average working man, then I say they don't know much about it. Anyway this is not the forum for this debate but I would just like to emphasise my comments were not aimed at the Radfords personally as I have no idea what they do or do not pay.

Sorry, I misread and misunderstood your comment! My mistake.

Putting through a meal on a business account In exchange for being taxed on making a profit, a tax for making a wage and a tax for taking a bonus seems ok to me.


Back on topic around football finances. The Bury situation is frightening, and it’s down to bad management of debt. Like Jamie said, we owe about the same to one call as Bury in debt (7-10mill). We just have someone in place that is managing it well

I don’t think JR would ever “just put us up for sale” instead he will temper his investment into the club and the make us a more appealing package and look for someone to buy the debt and the club. However, that I’ll be top end of league one before we are valued at more than our debt to him

[Jamie]

On the tax debate. I've no problem with people or companies using the rules to their advantage if they can. It's those who make and enforce the rules who need to recognise when loopholes arent really acceptable, then close them.

Good point conker about the 55% rule.