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Is it too early to worry?

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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby georgefostersbeard » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:42 am

Chrisuknottm wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Let’s take a step back and give JD a bit more time. It’s not like we’ve been hammered every game. Once Bobby is back and the defence is settled, hopefully we will push on. The biggest worry for me is still the midfield. We haven’t got one!!!


As Ive said elsewhere.....by the time Bobby is back in late October / November we could be well adrift in the bottom three and doing a County


Surely sacking a new manager after 3 games is the sort of thing that got clubs like county into trouble in the first place
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby yorkshire stag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 am

georgefostersbeard wrote:
Chrisuknottm wrote:
cassellswasmagic wrote:Let’s take a step back and give JD a bit more time. It’s not like we’ve been hammered every game. Once Bobby is back and the defence is settled, hopefully we will push on. The biggest worry for me is still the midfield. We haven’t got one!!!


As Ive said elsewhere.....by the time Bobby is back in late October / November we could be well adrift in the bottom three and doing a County


Surely sacking a new manager after 3 games is the sort of thing that got clubs like county into trouble in the first place


If it’s plain to see it was a genuine mistake, why wait to change it?, it’s not really the two draws it’s more the organisation, formation & motivation that appears to be missing, can-that be fixed or is it just a chance and opportunity that was never going to work?

i soooo want him to be a success it’s just we cannot wait very much longer if the above are not there, JD please sort it and quick otherwise you is on borrowed time mi duck
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby NorthLondonStag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:33 am

The facts are on current form we are on a par with Morecambe, but where we have had home advantage. They’re scored 4, we scored 4 and we had a man sent off in each game. Morecambe are a no higher than mid table team.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Sneag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:46 am

NorthLondonStag wrote:The facts are on current form we are on a par with Morecambe, but where we have had home advantage. They’re scored 4, we scored 4 and we had a man sent off in each game. Morecambe are a no higher than mid table team.


Facts are Yeovil took 4 points off us last season under 'Pep' Flitcroft. They finished bottom we finished 4th.

Looking at fixtures in isolation and trying to extrapolate a season's finish from them is crackees.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby NorthLondonStag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:06 am

I didn’t make any predictions about
Final league table position. I just started largely fact, and referred to ‘current form’. The only view I expressed is that Morecambe are at best a mid table team. I stand by that (and that seems to be the bookies’ view too).
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby stagmanrob » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:44 am

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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Spiritater » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:46 am

NorthLondonStag wrote:The facts are on current form we are on a par with Morecambe, but where we have had home advantage. They’re scored 4, we scored 4 and we had a man sent off in each game. Morecambe are a no higher than mid table team.

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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Bradders » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 am

I'm not particularly impressed at the moment, obviously it's not the start we were hoping for. But it's crazy to even think about drastic action.

As a new manager Dempster clearly needs time to settle in to the role. Although we're not happy about some of the decisions and tactics, we've played two league matches and lost neither, then put in a rather average performance in a glorified friendly match. It's not even September yet, let alone approaching the sharp end.

Yes, you could argue that pre-season wasn't particularly brilliant and that defence has slipped from the best in the league to one of the worst (after 2 games?), but at least Dempster will know where he needs to concentrate effort and has an opportunity to show that he can remedy this.
Why not concentrate on the positives for now and get behind the team and manager (and even the goalkeeper!)?
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:07 pm

bellwhiff wrote:I don’t think it’s time to worry but I do stand by my thoughts that it was a mistake to sack Flitcroft.


Me too. It appears those who wanted him out expected instant success with his replacement.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby NorthLondonStag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:08 pm

Spiritater wrote:
NorthLondonStag wrote:The facts are on current form we are on a par with Morecambe, but where we have had home advantage. They’re scored 4, we scored 4 and we had a man sent off in each game. Morecambe are a no higher than mid table team.

one player from both sides, not both ours


You know what I meant. I was trying to show that it was all equal. I should have said ‘We had a man sent off in the first game and they had a man sent off in the second’, but that was a lot to type and I had assumed that those taking the trouble to read and post would know that....
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:15 pm

Birminghamstag10 wrote:Worried about what exactly? Relegation or another season of disappointment?


Well I'm definitely worried about missing out again, but the longer this goes on the more concerned I become about being in a relegation scrap. Fortunately I think we have the players to avoid the drop, should the right manager come in.

I'm fickle. I change my mind with the breeze, but for now I'm not amused by this.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby WVStag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:31 pm

Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Get a grip.

We put out an under strength team which has never played together before. Some of that team had not played any football in anger yet this season and were far from match fit. This was always the plan and was stated as such days before kick off.

Yes there were obvious faults but give Morcambe some credit as they certainly didn't look relegation fodder to me. They played some pretty and effective football and were always a threat. They looked organised and knew what they were doing. I don't think they will finish bottom half and will comfortably stay up.

Get behind the lads and stop undermining them.


Yeah, stop having an opinion everyone.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Sneag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:42 pm

Rob wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I don’t think it’s time to worry but I do stand by my thoughts that it was a mistake to sack Flitcroft.


Me too. It appears those who wanted him out expected instant success with his replacement.


I think it's those that wanted to stick with DF that are most critical of Dempster Rob.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Amber Andy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Another concern for me is how the atmosphere will be in the stadium if things don't pick up. Under SE and DF the atmosphere in the stadium was very good, in fact a lot
of the time the place was rocking. It was a pleasure to go to games.

My concern is if things arnt turned round quickly we will probably go back to the awful atmosphere when AM and PC (final season) where in charge. It became a pain to go to games during that period. Chants of " taxi for Cox " and even worse comments for AM, plus insults for certain players if they made a mistake, made it a hostile place.

I was disappointed when I failed to purchase a QL membership card( my fault as I left it too long). Maybe, my disappointment, in that regard, will be lessened, if things don't improve !
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby BH_Stag » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:58 pm

WVStag wrote:
Sandy Pate Best Stag wrote:Get a grip.

We put out an under strength team which has never played together before. Some of that team had not played any football in anger yet this season and were far from match fit. This was always the plan and was stated as such days before kick off.

Yes there were obvious faults but give Morcambe some credit as they certainly didn't look relegation fodder to me. They played some pretty and effective football and were always a threat. They looked organised and knew what they were doing. I don't think they will finish bottom half and will comfortably stay up.

Get behind the lads and stop undermining them.


Yeah, stop having an opinion everyone.


Morecambe also made 7 changes as opposed to our 5, so the under strength team argument doesn’t stack up as they were the same and had 10 men. We had more than enough ability on the pitch last night to go and win that game.

It’s very disappointing to not beat Morecambe in either game, particularly with our squad which we know is capable of much better. At the moment I wouldn’t say I’m worried, but more a bit concerned. Dempster doesn’t have any past experience to fall back on that suggests he will get this right which is why a quick start is so important for new managers... things can go south pretty quickly if it doesn’t go to plan. We need a win to come soon as pressure will just keep building game on game until we do win and it’s not ideal at this early stage.

Hopefully on Saturday we start to see some signs, and most importantly a result to indicate that he is the man to take us forward. At the moment it’s hope rather than belief that he can.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby bobbystagsfan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:07 pm

Sneag wrote:
Rob wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I don’t think it’s time to worry but I do stand by my thoughts that it was a mistake to sack Flitcroft.


Me too. It appears those who wanted him out expected instant success with his replacement.


I think it's those that wanted to stick with DF that are most critical of Dempster Rob.



I would've stuck with flitcroft, but I've not been critical of Dempster just yet. He's only had three proper games in club management which is not enough to judge him on. It's just been a disappointing start but there's no reason we can't pull this around. Still early days
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Gruff » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:47 pm

BigGuy wrote:
Gruff wrote:He's still finding his best XI for his tactics.


Isn’t that what pre-season is for? Oh hang on we didn’t really have one of those so have to waste the first half dozen games working on fitness and tactics, not to mention best formation.


Yep, and he has been "forced" to make changes in every game so far, and then trying to change tactics to chase the game after conceding early goals.

Preferred Starting Xi would be

Logan/Stone (who do you want to blame?)
CJ Gordon Preston Pearce Sweeney Donahue Benning
Khan
Rose Maynard

After 10 minutes, CJ and Donahue can move into midfield :) :) :)
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby MutinyOnTheCounty » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:30 pm

Jamie wrote:
WVStag wrote:Whether you wanted Flitcroft out, or wanted him to stay... I know for a fact no one would’ve ‘said sack Flitcroft and give Dempster the job’.

If I knew Dempster was going to be his replacement there’s not a chance I’d have been on board with Flitcroft being sacked, because I’m not a lunatic.


I was ok with the sacking but agree. I'd have preferred him to try again rather than take such a risk with a rookie.

It's not like we've seen anything at all to get excited about either. No great new tactics or fresh ideas. Just last years team playing worse than they ever did.



I prefer to be magnanimous and put this down as a transitional phase whilst JD adjusts to the rigours of the role and the team improve their understanding of his style. Perhaps i'm misplacing my faith, but only time will tell. Can imagine JD is already feeling the pressure, given the anticipation after last season. I only hope people are courteous and patient enough to grant him till Xmas - if not there's little point him staying her another day, because he'll be hounded out before he's had any sort of chance to show if he can walk the walk.

Our most successful seasons (of recent times) have come from experienced managers, so i'm a little perplexed with expectations being so high already
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Rob » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:58 pm

Sneag wrote:
Rob wrote:
bellwhiff wrote:I don’t think it’s time to worry but I do stand by my thoughts that it was a mistake to sack Flitcroft.


Me too. It appears those who wanted him out expected instant success with his replacement.


I think it's those that wanted to stick with DF that are most critical of Dempster Rob.


I don't agree,, I'd say those who wanted to stick with DF are of the view that changing manager every 12 months is wrong. I very much doubt therefore that they'd be over-reacting like some on here. The really hysterical ones on here were very much in the Flitcroft out camp.

We're 3 games in, some on here really need help!
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby arsene wengers coat » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:12 pm

MutinyOnTheCounty wrote:
Jamie wrote:
WVStag wrote:Whether you wanted Flitcroft out, or wanted him to stay... I know for a fact no one would’ve ‘said sack Flitcroft and give Dempster the job’.

If I knew Dempster was going to be his replacement there’s not a chance I’d have been on board with Flitcroft being sacked, because I’m not a lunatic.


I was ok with the sacking but agree. I'd have preferred him to try again rather than take such a risk with a rookie.

It's not like we've seen anything at all to get excited about either. No great new tactics or fresh ideas. Just last years team playing worse than they ever did.



I prefer to be magnanimous and put this down as a transitional phase whilst JD adjusts to the rigours of the role and the team improve their understanding of his style. Perhaps i'm misplacing my faith, but only time will tell. Can imagine JD is already feeling the pressure, given the anticipation after last season. I only hope people are courteous and patient enough to grant him till Xmas - if not there's little point him staying her another day, because he'll be hounded out before he's had any sort of chance to show if he can walk the walk.

Our most successful seasons (of recent times) have come from experienced managers, so i'm a little perplexed with expectations being so high already



Well JR expects what I expect. A challenge. So far reports suggest we'll be challenging at the wrong end of the table.

The whole appointment baffles me tbh, and I fully expect it to end this season, and for this to be another promotion opportunity wasted.

The squad is good and capable of promotion. After this season it will likely be picked apart and will be for yet another manager to put back together again.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Birminghamstag10 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:50 pm

The results from the start of last season weren't exactly massively confidence inspiring, even if the play was arguably better. Yes we got off to a flyer v Newport and battered a L1 side in the EFL cup, but then drew on the trot for ages! We even shipped 2 goal v Yeovil for all those thinking the defence was massively watertight then.

I'm definitely not looking through the old rose tinted glasses, but let's take another look after the Stevenage game - a tough away trip and 2 okish home games in between and if we're still where we are, maybe I might entertain a level of concern.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby gazza1988 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:56 pm

I'll attempt a bit of perspective. League results wise. Last season we beat Newport convincingly 1st game of the season, we then drew the next 4 games (granted we did demolish the previous seasons champions 6-1 in the cup). To suggest we may as well give up now is far off the mark.

The main difference is we created bucket loads of chances in those games we drew. I don't feel we are creating the same number of opportunities.

The only concern I have is the shoehorning of players. If there is no option then do it. With Gordon and Clarke able at RWB then CJ Hamilton should be nowhere near that position. If we have 2 available CB then it's a back 4 or Gibbens in as well in a 3. Turner came in because it was obvious we would need cover there, he hasn't been replaced.

With the squad we have we should not be having to play so many players out of position this early in the season. Unless it's something we are trying to address in the transfer market. Demps has said he's happy with the squad. So why are players out of position?
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby tmwilson » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:26 pm

I think it's farcical that the Manager and team are being judged so early. I honestly can't believe some of the comments I have read. Flitcroft made a pigs ear of it when taking over from Evans and couldn't get us over the line after given a full season and some what him back? To then judge Dempster after 3 games is a joke
White has come back from a bad injury to then get injured again. Tomlinson has come back from a injury. Some of the new players have been injured or were not fully fit. Dempster is still getting to know his best team, the player have to get use to his system.
Rose looks twice the player he did last season under Flitcroft.
Khan has been our best player so far. He didn't even get a sniff last season.
All the new players have impressed me. The stick Logan is receiving is unwarranted. Yes he made a mistake against Morecombe but its our defending that has cost us an additional four points.
If Maynard had scored from the spot we would of beaten Newport. We've had two silly sending offs and although we haven't played great, we have shown great character in coming back.
If we sort the defence out then the rest will take care of itself. We have too many good attacking players to not score goals. I'm not saying Dempster is the answer but he needs to be given at least 10 or 15 games before we are making remarks like we are doing at the moment.
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:27 pm

gazza1988 wrote:I'll attempt a bit of perspective. League results wise. Last season we beat Newport convincingly 1st game of the season, we then drew the next 4 games (granted we did demolish the previous seasons champions 6-1 in the cup). To suggest we may as well give up now is far off the mark.

The main difference is we created bucket loads of chances in those games we drew. I don't feel we are creating the same number of opportunities.

The only concern I have is the shoehorning of players. If there is no option then do it. With Gordon and Clarke able at RWB then CJ Hamilton should be nowhere near that position. If we have 2 available CB then it's a back 4 or Gibbens in as well in a 3. Turner came in because it was obvious we would need cover there, he hasn't been replaced.

With the squad we have we should not be having to play so many players out of position this early in the season. Unless it's something we are trying to address in the transfer market. Demps has said he's happy with the squad. So why are players out of position?


Exactly Gazza, its like DF has never gone away
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Re: Is it too early to worry?

Postby Conker » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:32 pm

We came 4th in expected goals against Morecambe on Saturday, with Khan, Maynard and Rose all looking really dangerous i'm not worried about creating chances and subsequently scoring goals.

For me the main issues begin with a rookie manager struggling to find the formation and players that work, he needs to try and stick with something. Main players that you expect to start every game from last season (ie Bishop and CJ) are vastly underperforming, and to be fair to CJ once again he's getting chucked around all other the pitch.

In terms of the shambolic defence, it's been a mixture of poor management and individual mistakes from defenders who were superb last season. Then the issue of Logan just not being fit or good enough (in my humble opinion) and worryingly I reckon quite a few of the players agree because it was pretty clear even last season that they did not trust him and the incident with White yesterday makes me more confident in that theory. Right now Dempster needs to decide on a three or a four at the back and stick with it for a while, although I would certainly make the team cautious in the first 30 against Carlisle to stop this early goal record.

Everybody needs to get behind them, including the goalkeeper, I have said all summer to expect a slow start and it's not like we are getting thrashed, saturday is going to be a tough one but no tougher than Newport.
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