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Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:43 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby part time pete » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:17 pm

Didn’t think Stockton scored first and involved in second goal, Martin.

Just a typo?
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 pm

thanks, yes, amended.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:55 pm

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:11 am

Cook was definitely having his shirt pulled, it was a clear penalty. The assistant our side was almost as useless as the so-called supporters in the QLE who rather than back our side decided to slag off our keeper, the utter losers.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby cassellswasmagic » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:17 am

Rob wrote:Cook was definitely having his shirt pulled, it was a clear penalty. The assistant our side was almost as useless as the so-called supporters in the QLE who rather than back our side decided to slag off our keeper, the utter losers.

Lots of them were just venting their frustration in the same way Logan did back. I can see why when for the second game on the trot against the favourites to be relegated we found ourselves 2-0 down and it could have been 3 or 4. I think we all need to cut the calling out of players and fans Rob and buckle up for the ride.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Random Hero » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 pm

In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby MTFCMusings » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:50 pm

How can you say Logan is correctly position for that goal? He's in no mans land. He might have been well position when the pass was hit but by the time the ball gets to Allesandra he should have already came and claimed/cleared the ball or be back on his line.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby pemill » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:59 pm

Random Hero wrote:
In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.


Two defenders :shock: who? Preston was miles away, Mel was getting there but not close enough and whether Conrad was in the wrong position, hesitated or wot else Pearce didn't and couldn't get to the ball or man. Had Conrad stayed on his line he would have to have dealt with a one on one in front of goal, advantage attacker. OK CL might have made an error but where the raspberry was everyone else. Oh and by the way, having looked back at the goal again, CJ's attempt to get back at Ellison after losing the ball was lacklustre at best. raspberry goal to concede all round.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby cassellswasmagic » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:10 pm

It’s obvious from the video Conrad hesitates. Maybe he realises he can’t get to it, or he thinks Pearce has got it but either way it ends up being a poor goal to concede. Pearce doesn’t look the same defender with Conrad in goal. Imo Logan should have fully committed once he moved forward but it’s done now. These little errors are costing us already.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Random Hero » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:29 pm

I’ve just asked a mate of mine who used to be professional analyst in the EFL (he’s now in the Conference... not with Spireites or County, mind! :lol: ) what he makes of it. Interestingly, the first thing he noticed was the horrendous attempt to track Ellison from CJ.

Firstly, the full back is doing nothing to stop a 58 year old getting to the ball before him and advancing down the line. Lazy.
:lol: (he doesn’t mince his words)

Then goes on to say:

The GK can see everything in that situation first and foremost. Needs to talk.

That far out, CB probably does need to head it, though without the shout from the GK he’s blindsided to the attacker.

Its a bad goal to concede all round but the GK has to do better. He’s indecisive, isn’t positioned correctly and doesn’t look to be talking - that kills defenders. It’s a cracking ball from said 58 year old but I do feel for the CB. GK stays on his line and he’s got a chance to recover after being blindsided, as the striker then has to control it at that range from goal in order to get a shot away.

Majority blame with the GK.



Make of that what you will.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby cerfjaune » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Although not too many people have brought this up, but CJ’s role in the starting XI seems to me to be problematical. I can understand why JD wants him to start. But he is not a RB nor a RwingB. He has to take some responsibility for both goals on Saturday.

If the manager wants him to have some influence on the game from the left, he should start him from there, not change the system after 25 minutes when we’re 2-0 down. It’s the manager’s job to decide how best to accommodate a player who will always be a potential match winner.

Obviously I’m not advocating that we don’t play CJ. But if he lines up on the right side of defence at the start of the match, I’m not surprised if we’re chasing the game by halftime
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:26 pm

cerfjaune wrote:Although not too many people have brought this up, but CJ’s role in the starting XI seems to me to be problematical. I can understand why JD wants him to start. But he is not a RB nor a RwingB. He has to take some responsibility for both goals on Saturday.

If the manager wants him to have some influence on the game from the left, he should start him from there, not change the system after 25 minutes when we’re 2-0 down. It’s the manager’s job to decide how best to accommodate a player who will always be a potential match winner.

Obviously I’m not advocating that we don’t play CJ. But if he lines up on the right side of defence at the start of the match, I’m not surprised if we’re chasing the game by halftime


Based on his contribution on Saturday, I would be tempted to bench CJ and then bring him on as an out-and-out winger if the state of the game demanded it.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby S7AGS » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:32 pm

Play your best players in their best positions for crying out loud! If it means benching 1 or 2 to make it happen then do that...you can always bring them on and tell them to earn a starting berth.

Irritates me all this playing players out of position just to keep them in the first 11...it didn’t work for flitcroft so dempster has a clean sheet to do it differently and Is just falling into the same trap!

Sort it dempster!
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Chrisuknottm » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:39 pm

S7AGS wrote:Play your best players in their best positions for crying out loud! If it means benching 1 or 2 to make it happen then do that...you can always bring them on and tell them to earn a starting berth.

Irritates me all this playing players out of position just to keep them in the first 11...it didn’t work for flitcroft so dempster has a clean sheet to do it differently and Is just falling into the same trap!

Sort it dempster!


Great post. ...CJ has (apart from Exeter away) been pretty poor since January and on Saturday he was, especially in the first half, disinterested and hesitant and unwilling to get stuck in. He looked like he was carrying an injury but somehow that disappeared in the second half.

Play people know what they are going not on reputation.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:22 pm

Random Hero wrote:
In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.


It's a high ball from the left touchline on the halfway line which bounces on the edge of the area. The central defender should be clearing it, either heading it away or getting something on it on the half volley, in my opinion. The goalkeeper can't come for it as he risks catching it/carrying it outside the area. I don't think a goalkeeper should be on his line for a diagonal ball from the halfway line.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby ST4GS » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:44 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Random Hero wrote:
In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.


It's a high ball from the left touchline on the halfway line which bounces on the edge of the area. The central defender should be clearing it, either heading it away or getting something on it on the half volley, in my opinion. The goalkeeper can't come for it as he risks catching it/carrying it outside the area. I don't think a goalkeeper should be on his line for a diagonal ball from the halfway line.
Must give credit to Ellison. What a ball. He meant it as well. He put it in the only position available to achieve a goalscoring chance. It was a one in twenty probability ball at best.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:47 pm

ST4GS wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:
Random Hero wrote:
In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.


It's a high ball from the left touchline on the halfway line which bounces on the edge of the area. The central defender should be clearing it, either heading it away or getting something on it on the half volley, in my opinion. The goalkeeper can't come for it as he risks catching it/carrying it outside the area. I don't think a goalkeeper should be on his line for a diagonal ball from the halfway line.
Must give credit to Ellison. What a ball. He meant it as well. He put it in the only position available to achieve a goalscoring chance. It was a one in twenty probability ball at best.


That bounced up to a very awkward height, the only way he could've scored was with a GK totally out of position!!!!
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Bradders » Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:59 pm

Although I'm not arguing against Rose for MOTM, it looked to me like he was about to be subbed when he scored. Cook was almost ready to come on, and Rose had been out of the game for quite a long time - suddenly reappearing with spectacular results, and causing Dempster to ask Cook to put his jacket back on.
I must say that Maynard had a superb game, with plenty of quality on show as well as a first-rate striker's goal.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Random Hero » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:49 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:
Random Hero wrote:
In my opinion, no blame attached to Logan who was correctly positioned, but Pearce should have done better, allowing Alessandra to get in the header.


Have you watched the replay of the second goal, Martin?!

I'd have to strongly disagree with your assessment of it. Logan hesitates, comes - then stops, then attempts to come again but it's way too late by then. How on earth is Pearce meant to know whose ball it is, when Logan is so indecisive?!

The simple fact is that, if he stays on his line, there are two defenders around the striker who either a) mop up, b) at pressure the striker into a first time shot from distance - an easy save to make for a correctly positioned goalkeeper or c) controlling the ball. Logan in no mans land on the penalty spot gives the striker an easy decision to make, and pretty much a freebie with the lob.

I think you'll struggle to find a goalkeeping coach in the land who would claim that there was NO portion of blame to be attached to Logan.


It's a high ball from the left touchline on the halfway line which bounces on the edge of the area. The central defender should be clearing it, either heading it away or getting something on it on the half volley, in my opinion. The goalkeeper can't come for it as he risks catching it/carrying it outside the area. I don't think a goalkeeper should be on his line for a diagonal ball from the halfway line.


I respect your opinion Martin and I know you’re saying it as you see it and usually you get things correct. But you’re not here, I’m afraid.

You’re right when you say the keeper can’t come for it... so why on earth does he begin to come, stop, and then come again?! If he’s further back he saves it, end of. He should never be on his penalty spot in that situation - that is no mans land and in that situation it’s all or nothing. He either stays on his 6 yard box, or he attempts to catch it. He did neither.

To maintain that Logan still has absolutely no blame attributed to him for that goal is just plain wrong.

I respect your views but when a professional analyst believes he is majority at fault (see above) - I’ll take his word for it.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby The One » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:18 pm

True random. Logan rush of blood again. Cost us points last season also. Lincoln home. Luton away etc. Liability.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Martin Shaw » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:29 pm

your professional analyst says "GK stays on his line ...". He does realise the ball is crossed from the halfway line does he? No goalkeeper is supposed to be on his line when the ball is on the halfway line, so he can't possibly "stay" there. Now there could be an argument to say that the goalkeeper should backtrack once he realises the ball is going to bounce up from bouncing on the edge of the area, but does he have time to do that? I don't think he does. It was 2 seconds from Ellison striking it from the halfway line, to it bouncing on the edge of the area. So he's in a reasonable position. It's a brilliant ball from Ellison, a great header from Alessandra, but Pearce should clear it or at least make it more difficult for Alessandra.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby DogsDoDahs » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:37 pm

I am tempted to look at this from a different point of view. The defensive line was set up as 4-4-2 but three of the four have gone on holiday which should never happen. If it does happen leaving with a one on one situation the last defender should always be level with the attacker and very close proximity to him. So the defender can push up as a pass is played leaving the attacker offside or manhandle him to prevent him getting the pass. The whole of the back line were totally caught out of position and this combined with the precision of the ellison pass and the great finish lead to their second goal. To lay all the blame on Logan is unfair because if Pearce was concentrating the goal was preventable. More over the three missing defenders should be maintaining defensive discipline not wandering down the other end of the pitch. We were not playing a wingback system at the time so they should have been in line with Pearce at least. The team have to defend better than the first two games so far, so should be instructed to defend if its a 4-4-2 system as priority, maybe we may get more points then. I expect Demps to get this point across soon and the defensive record to improve.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Random Hero » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:51 pm

Martin Shaw wrote:your professional analyst says "GK stays on his line ...". He does realise the ball is crossed from the halfway line does he? No goalkeeper is supposed to be on his line when the ball is on the halfway line, so he can't possibly "stay" there. Now there could be an argument to say that the goalkeeper should backtrack once he realises the ball is going to bounce up from bouncing on the edge of the area, but does he have time to do that? I don't think he does. It was 2 seconds from Ellison striking it from the halfway line, to it bouncing on the edge of the area. So he's in a reasonable position. It's a brilliant ball from Ellison, a great header from Alessandra, but Pearce should clear it or at least make it more difficult for Alessandra.


Agreed... he should be on his 6 yard box when the ball is in that position. But when the ball is delivered he comes to claim it, hesitates, and then comes again. The indecisiveness cost us because by that point he was never going to get there, and never going to get back either. If he doesn’t make that initial move, he catches it after the striker heads it, simple as. If he starts to come to claim it he has to go through with it. To do neither one nor the other in the end leaves him at least partly at fault.

Completely agree that Pearce should do better... but to say there is NO blame attributed to Logan in your report is the line I take issue with.
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Re: Stagsnet report

Postby Rob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 am

Random Hero wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:your professional analyst says "GK stays on his line ...". He does realise the ball is crossed from the halfway line does he? No goalkeeper is supposed to be on his line when the ball is on the halfway line, so he can't possibly "stay" there. Now there could be an argument to say that the goalkeeper should backtrack once he realises the ball is going to bounce up from bouncing on the edge of the area, but does he have time to do that? I don't think he does. It was 2 seconds from Ellison striking it from the halfway line, to it bouncing on the edge of the area. So he's in a reasonable position. It's a brilliant ball from Ellison, a great header from Alessandra, but Pearce should clear it or at least make it more difficult for Alessandra.


Agreed... he should be on his 6 yard box when the ball is in that position. But when the ball is delivered he comes to claim it, hesitates, and then comes again. The indecisiveness cost us because by that point he was never going to get there, and never going to get back either. If he doesn’t make that initial move, he catches it after the striker heads it, simple as. If he starts to come to claim it he has to go through with it. To do neither one nor the other in the end leaves him at least partly at fault.

Completely agree that Pearce should do better... but to say there is NO blame attributed to Logan in your report is the line I take issue with.


I wonder what the highest level you have kept goal is Random? You clearly are an expert and keeping coach of some high regard - or maybe you are just another one of the losers who slagged off our own players during the game on Saturday? So which is it, keeper expert or absolute loser?
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