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Change of mindset?

Postby Waggy » Tue May 14, 2019 6:00 pm

Radford's actions today sy to me one of two things

1. He's had enough of losing money and wants to reign it in

2. He's bringing about a welcome change of mindset at Mansfield Town. Too many people associated with the club, including supporters, think that 4th Division football is where we belong and 'mustn't grumble'. Is JR saying no! We have the resources now to play higher and if personnel fail at this low level, they best ship out - especially if they are taking big bucks. It drives me mad when bang average 4th division footballers are lauded by fans and 'must be given a chance'. This attitude has kept us where we are. Deliver or else!
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Sammythestag » Tue May 14, 2019 6:11 pm

I think his long term vision was to develop young players and bring them through, he's certainly delivered on the training ground facilities and the academy is thriving under Dempster which would back up that idea. Flitcroft was bringing a couple of young lads along however John must think now is the time to get them involved some more, only time will tell.

He also just changed his facebook background to a picture of field mill, maybe getting carried away however it could be a hint at sorting the 4th stand out imminently and that could be reasoning for a cut back in finances just like spurs had to.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Tue May 14, 2019 6:19 pm

It demonstrates one thing ABSOLUTELY:

JR is still 100% committed to the club and it future progression.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby ST4GS » Tue May 14, 2019 6:23 pm

It feels like a watershed moment. We have been treading water for a while so hopefully these actions are designed to inject impetus.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Sneag » Tue May 14, 2019 6:50 pm

Maybe JR is thinking that Stags have started to be seen as cash cow to be milked by washed up football managers and that promoting a loyal servant like Dempster is a better way forward.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby bobbystagsfan » Tue May 14, 2019 6:54 pm

Sneag wrote:Maybe JR is thinking that Stags have started to be seen as cash cow to be milked by washed up football managers and that promoting a loyal servant like Dempster is a better way forward.



someone else said something similar. managers see a well run club with money to spend, they have nothing to lose if they don't achieve anything so will come for an easy ride almost. Dempster's been here for a while now and I'm sure JR knows him very well and trusts him running the youth team and now the first team.

There's no reason we can't have a successful season next year!
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Sneag » Tue May 14, 2019 7:01 pm

Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby kevin kents tasce » Tue May 14, 2019 7:06 pm

Good points Sneag, but claiming Watkiss as a success is stretching it a bit surely!?
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Waggy » Tue May 14, 2019 7:07 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sneag wrote:Maybe JR is thinking that Stags have started to be seen as cash cow to be milked by washed up football managers and that promoting a loyal servant like Dempster is a better way forward.



someone else said something similar. managers see a well run club with money to spend, they have nothing to lose if they don't achieve anything so will come for an easy ride almost. Dempster's been here for a while now and I'm sure JR knows him very well and trusts him running the youth team and now the first team.

There's no reason we can't have a successful season next year!


I definitely think that Evans treated it as an easy ride. His recruitment policy was scattergun to say the least. He spent a lot of money quickly, without much thought or effort
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Sneag » Tue May 14, 2019 8:06 pm

kevin kents tasce wrote:Good points Sneag, but claiming Watkiss as a success is stretching it a bit surely!?


Watkiss was a poor manager IMO but in mitigation he managed what Flitcroft couldn't in getting another mans squad over the line and he also worked for Haslam rather than Radford. Had he worked foer JR he may have signed better players than Lever & Moore.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Amber Andy » Tue May 14, 2019 8:21 pm

Sneag wrote:Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.

Ian Greaves, Bill Dearden ?
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Sneag » Tue May 14, 2019 8:33 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.

Ian Greaves, Bill Dearden ?


Greaves is actually the only manager with previous experience to deliver anything.
Had Dearden been a first team manager before tak8ng over at Stags?
Last edited by Sneag on Tue May 14, 2019 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby yorkstag » Tue May 14, 2019 8:41 pm

EdwinstoweStag wrote:It demonstrates one thing ABSOLUTELY:

JR is still 100% committed to the club and it future progression.

Agreed
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Kenwood » Tue May 14, 2019 9:01 pm

yorkstag wrote:
EdwinstoweStag wrote:It demonstrates one thing ABSOLUTELY:

JR is still 100% committed to the club and it future progression.

Agreed


Not suggesting he isn’t but how does sacking DF to then give the job to Dempster show that?

Obviously we don’t know anything regarding budget etc yet but on the face of it looks more like a cost cutting exercise than anything.

JR May well announce he intends to still give Demps a top 3 budget, or he intends to invest in ground improvements??

I suppose we will know more over the next few weeks, especially when the retain list is named
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Amber Andy » Tue May 14, 2019 9:19 pm

Sneag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.

Ian Greaves, Bill Dearden ?


Greaves is actually the only manager with previous experience to deliver anything.
Had Dearden been a first team manager before tak8ng over at Stags?

Port Vale.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue May 14, 2019 9:25 pm

Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.

Ian Greaves, Bill Dearden ?


Greaves is actually the only manager with previous experience to deliver anything.
Had Dearden been a first team manager before tak8ng over at Stags?

Port Vale.


Wrong....

Dearden was caretaker manager for us 1993 for about 6 weeks and was caretaker for port Vale but never actually managed a game for them.

His first appointment as a manager was here in 1999.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Amber Andy » Tue May 14, 2019 9:35 pm

MTFCMAD wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:
Amber Andy wrote:
Sneag wrote:Here's a thought for those that prefer an experienced head in the dugout.

Stags have won 3 championships in my lifetime.
Dave Smith in 74/75 first job in management.
Peter Morris 76/77 first job in management
Paul Cox 12/13 first job at BSP level only previous job Eastwood Town.

Add to that Promotions for Watkiss & Foster in their first managerial jobs (although Fozzie got a relegation in first.

Panic ye not.

Ian Greaves, Bill Dearden ?


Greaves is actually the only manager with previous experience to deliver anything.
Had Dearden been a first team manager before tak8ng over at Stags?

Port Vale.


Wrong....

Dearden was caretaker manager for us 1993 for about 6 weeks and was caretaker for port Vale but never actually managed a game for them.

His first appointment as a manager was here in 1999.
I stand corrected :)
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby robbingdog » Tue May 14, 2019 9:40 pm

bobbystagsfan wrote:
Sneag wrote:Maybe JR is thinking that Stags have started to be seen as cash cow to be milked by washed up football managers and that promoting a loyal servant like Dempster is a better way forward.



someone else said something similar. managers see a well run club with money to spend, they have nothing to lose if they don't achieve anything so will come for an easy ride almost. Dempster's been here for a while now and I'm sure JR knows him very well and trusts him running the youth team and now the first team.

There's no reason we can't have a successful season next year!


This I think is bang on the money. Enough of folk thinking we’re moneybags Mansfield.
The we have the best owners in the league, who support the manager to the hilt,
No more we’re going to smash the league, let’s just get JD to have a bash and
try and get us to somewhere the other “big boys” couldn’t do.
Give the bloke a chance and stop moaning about cheap option etc
Support OUR club to the end and let’s just hope we can do it.
Newport fans aren’t moaning about Flynn being untried
Bury fans the same with Ryan Lowe
I can’t wait for next season, build on what we have and you never know
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby m1cksut » Wed May 15, 2019 9:00 am

ok , just to throw another option in from left field;
Dempster has been here since the dark days of non league, did all his coaching badges with us, and has made the youth set up one of the best, developing some really good young talent.
was this JRs plan all along, to bring Dempster through the ranks, learning all the time from the more "experienced" managers, seeing what worked and what didnt, until he was deemed ready for the first team.
why people think that "senior" players wouldnt respect him is beyond me.
did any of them respect evans? feared him, perhaps, but i doubt there was much respect.
did they respect flitcroft? possibly, and where did that get us?
Dempster is coming in with history with the club, with a core of youngsters eager to press on, and with JR and CRs backing.
Its possible it will all end in tears, but we have ended in tears with other, more experienced managers before.
for what its worth, i think Dempster wil surprise many on here, and will make a good fist of it, and this time next year, no-one will bemoan letting flitcroft go now.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Jamie » Wed May 15, 2019 9:20 am

Who are these really good young players? The ones who have played haven't really stuck out as great prospects... maybe they need a proper chance but I always think if your good enough, you play and our last two experienced managers haven't really given any of them a chance, why?

JD knows the younger players very well. Hes well placed to bring some through. It's a gamble but you never know with football.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby kcassellsfootygenius » Wed May 15, 2019 10:28 am

m1cksut wrote:ok , just to throw another option in from left field;
Dempster has been here since the dark days of non league, did all his coaching badges with us, and has made the youth set up one of the best, developing some really good young talent.
was this JRs plan all along, to bring Dempster through the ranks, learning all the time from the more "experienced" managers, seeing what worked and what didnt, until he was deemed ready for the first team.
why people think that "senior" players wouldnt respect him is beyond me.
did any of them respect evans? feared him, perhaps, but i doubt there was much respect.
did they respect flitcroft? possibly, and where did that get us?
Dempster is coming in with history with the club, with a core of youngsters eager to press on, and with JR and CRs backing.
Its possible it will all end in tears, but we have ended in tears with other, more experienced managers before.
for what its worth, i think Dempster wil surprise many on here, and will make a good fist of it, and this time next year, no-one will bemoan letting flitcroft go now.


Think this sums it up for me. Lot of conjecture around reduced budgets, senior players and attracting players but has it occurred to anyone Mansfield Town and by proxy JR have invested a lot in John Dempster in the last few years in courses, wages and other things and JR wants to see a return on that investment. They clearly didn't think he was ready before but do now.

If current senior players don't respect him they should move on that is there issue not ours. As for attracting players, never heard so much crap. Players will come for a good deal to a club with good facilities and a great position all round regardless of who the manager is.

The budget may not be the same but with the investment already put in, the hotel and everything else I just don't see the budget tumbling as much as some think.

If Dempster wasn't going to be promoted at some point then what was the point of developing him?
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed May 15, 2019 10:32 am

As someone else suggested to me, there is no doubt that Steve Hymas has had a big part to play in this appointment. He never seemed to be a fan of Flitcroft even when we were sitting pretty, bringing up the 'freezing out' of youth players despite them training with the first team on a regular basis.

Of course everyone wants to see us develop our own players, but that should not be at the detriment of our fortunes on the pitch. There's no point just throwing these youngsters in for the sake of it if they are not yet good enough.

You can see now why Flitcroft maybe didn't throw a youth player in when he was under such huge pressure to deliver promotion. If you were him, knowing that you would get the boot if you didn't deliver, would you throw on Alex MacDonald or Alistair Smith? Ben Turner or Lewis Gibbens? Danny Rose or Zayn Hakeem?
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Chander Lear » Wed May 15, 2019 10:39 am

MTFCMusings wrote:As someone else suggested to me, there is no doubt that Steve Hymas has had a big part to play in this appointment. He never seemed to be a fan of Flitcroft even when we were sitting pretty, bringing up the 'freezing out' of youth players despite them training with the first team on a regular basis.

Of course everyone wants to see us develop our own players, but that should not be at the detriment of our fortunes on the pitch. There's no point just throwing these youngsters in for the sake of it if they are not yet good enough.

You can see now why Flitcroft maybe didn't throw a youth player in when he was under such huge pressure to deliver promotion. If you were him, knowing that you would get the boot if you didn't deliver, would you throw on Alex MacDonald or Alistair Smith? Ben Turner or Lewis Gibbens? Danny Rose or Zayn Hakeem?


The last point you make is an excellent one. Im a fan of trying to get youth through, but there is a time and a place. Especially if your job / promotion is on the line
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby stagsfan6493 » Wed May 15, 2019 10:57 am

MTFCMusings wrote:As someone else suggested to me, there is no doubt that Steve Hymas has had a big part to play in this appointment. He never seemed to be a fan of Flitcroft even when we were sitting pretty, bringing up the 'freezing out' of youth players despite them training with the first team on a regular basis.

Of course everyone wants to see us develop our own players, but that should not be at the detriment of our fortunes on the pitch. There's no point just throwing these youngsters in for the sake of it if they are not yet good enough.

You can see now why Flitcroft maybe didn't throw a youth player in when he was under such huge pressure to deliver promotion. If you were him, knowing that you would get the boot if you didn't deliver, would you throw on Alex MacDonald or Alistair Smith? Ben Turner or Lewis Gibbens? Danny Rose or Zayn Hakeem?

I think the problem for DF is he would chuck on Ajose rather than Zayn. Got a feeling that has rubbed people up the wrong way after Ajose failed here.
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Re: Change of mindset?

Postby Jimstag » Wed May 15, 2019 11:09 am

Every player is a gamble, young or old. What you do know from established pros is what they’ve done elsewhere and if they’ve done it consistently, they are both unknowns for youngsters with potential.

Looking at our squad we already had a lot of players in their early to mid twenties, just not many that were home grown. I think now is a key test for the infrastructure we have built up, it’s not good having a winning youth team if it doesn’t generate first team players and many teams have got rid.

This could be really positive and potentially a shift in our model closer to something like Exeter’s? The key point to that is that whilst they did well under Tisdale they were always nearly men. Hopefully Dempster can have as long a reign but capitalise on the good seasons!
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