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Budget cut?!?

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Budget cut?!?

Postby stagmanrob » Tue May 14, 2019 1:29 pm

Wanted this separate from the Flitcroft gone thread to discuss the financial implication...

Appears to me to be just like when we appointed Murray by appointing Dempster, i.e. an appointment from within, no compensation paid for a new gaffer.

A big sea change from what has gone before, a tightening of the purse strings and a season of consolidation/transition.

I expect with the excellent results from the youth team in the past three seasons, Dempster's close links with that youth system, John Radford is starting to want results from it bearing fruition too. For all his bluster about giving youth a chance, Flitcroft never really did, but I suppose it's hard to when in the thick of a promotion battle, you rely on experienced heads rather than kids who can sink or swim and be a huge gamble.

Definitely looks like a top 3 budget will not be coming Dempster's way. I hope he doesn't go like Muzza did, and try and be negative to stay in a job, and ultimately fail.
Youth football is a world away from the men's game when livelihoods and pay packets are on the line. I wish him all the luck in the world and will be fully behind him as I'm sure we all will. A Mansfield bloke through and through is ideally what we'd all love to see succeed.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue May 14, 2019 1:32 pm

stagmanrob wrote:Wanted this separate from the Flitcroft gone thread to discuss the financial implication...

Appears to me to be just like when we appointed Murray by appointing Dempster, i.e. an appointment from within, no compensation paid for a new gaffer.

A big sea change from what has gone before, a tightening of the purse strings and a season of consolidation/transition.

I expect with the excellent results from the youth team in the past three seasons, Dempster's close links with that youth system, John Radford is starting to want results from it bearing fruition too. For all his bluster about giving youth a chance, Flitcroft never really did, but I suppose it's hard to when in the thick of a promotion battle, you rely on experienced heads rather than kids who can sink or swim and be a huge gamble.

Definitely looks like a top 3 budget will not be coming Dempster's way. I hope he doesn't go like Muzza did, and try ans be negative to stay in a job, and ultimately fail.


Bit too early to assume the budget had been cut.

Look at it this way the last two managers have cost a lot in wages and achieved Sweet FA.

Why not appoint from within. JD has won three youth titles in a row and I think has all his badges.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby gazza1988 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:33 pm

DF identified Graham, Gibbens and Wilder to train with the first team at the start of the season. He played Graham and Gibbens. When we were short on strikers Graham was out injured. Hard DF's fault.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby stagsfan6493 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:35 pm

You cannot expect JR to keep providing a top 3 budget and end up with non-top 3 results. Of course the budget was eventually going to be cut!
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Beano » Tue May 14, 2019 1:36 pm

Have I missed JR stating that there will be budget cuts and that the new manager won’t be backed financially?

Until that becomes obvious, surely any such theories are pure nonsense.

JR has got rid of Flitcroft due to a perceived failure, why would he then not give Flitcroft’s replacement adequate backing to succeed?

Maybe he’s just fed up with “big names” that have done nothing but let him down.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Jamie » Tue May 14, 2019 1:37 pm

I think its a given we'll have a smaller budget next season.

The club has talked up us being sustainable, but the last 2 / 2.5 seasons we've spent well beyond our income. We'll find out when the accounts come out but i'm expecting to see JR having loaned the club a load more money to cover the last two seasons. This to me suggests we'll run within our means, cheap manager, smaller squad.

I've got no complaint with that, i've spent years warning against borrowing for a push that might not work. I just hope JD can do the business. The club need to be clear on this now though, because if its our own income only we need as many fans as possible and saying that might inspire a few to pay up and help the cause. Its been far to easy for people to turn tail and rely on JR covering everything.

Budget wise i've no problem with this, but appointing JD is a complete gamble.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Conker » Tue May 14, 2019 1:38 pm

Beano wrote:Have I missed JR stating that there will be budget cuts and that the new manager won’t be backed financially?

Until that becomes obvious, surely any such theories are pure nonsense.

JR has got rid of Flitcroft due to a perceived failure, why would he then not give Flitcroft’s replacement adequate backing to succeed?

Maybe he’s just fed up with “big names” that have done nothing but let him down.


Everyone worried about a budget cut is ridiculous, even if you skimmed £500,000 off I bet it’s still top seven anyway :P

And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 pm

It certainly seems that way, but we won't know until the ins and outs start rolling in.

I've no doubt Dempster will be on less money than Flitcroft, so maybe that saving will be reinvested into the playing side.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby BH_Stag » Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 pm

Budget will definitely be cut in my opinion. You can’t keep spending like we have at our level forever.

The club will naturally say all the right things, but we’ve really gone for it the last 2 seasons and not achieved our goal. Huge opportunity missed.

Going to be a very interesting summer.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Jamie » Tue May 14, 2019 1:39 pm

Conker wrote:And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.


So you're suggesting he's gifted all this extra money the last 2 years? Or that we have actually 'broken even'?
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby stagsfan6493 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:40 pm

BH_Stag wrote:Budget will definitely be cut in my opinion. You can’t keep spending like we have at our level forever.

The club will naturally say all the right things, but we’ve really gone for it the last 2 seasons and not achieved our goal. Huge opportunity missed.

Going to be a very interesting summer.

This. It is something the DF lovers did not realise.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Conker » Tue May 14, 2019 1:43 pm

Jamie wrote:
Conker wrote:And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.


So you're suggesting he's gifted all this extra money the last 2 years? Or that we have actually 'broken even'?


What I’m telling you is we are allowed to spent 55% of income on players wages, and owners loaning money to the club is not included in ‘income’
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby bellwhiff » Tue May 14, 2019 1:43 pm

Of course it’s a cheap option
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby stagmanrob » Tue May 14, 2019 1:47 pm

Beano wrote:Have I missed JR stating that there will be budget cuts and that the new manager won’t be backed financially?

Until that becomes obvious, surely any such theories are pure nonsense.

JR has got rid of Flitcroft due to a perceived failure, why would he then not give Flitcroft’s replacement adequate backing to succeed?

Maybe he’s just fed up with “big names” that have done nothing but let him down.

He has said the exact same soundbites as he did with Murray.
"Will receive our full backing" I'm sure he said. Might try and dig it out, it will be archived on here somewhere.

Muzza has said in a lot of interviews over the years, that he had nowhere near the backing Cox did, and not even a fraction of Evans and Flitcroft's budgets.

And he signed Benning, Pearce , CJ and Rose. So it proves budgets aren't a necessity anyway. But this all points towards a cut rather than a continuation. If you were a betting man, that's where you'd place your educated bets.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Sneag » Tue May 14, 2019 1:48 pm

Dempster could be the next Eddie Howe. :D

I would have sooner seen Dempster get the 12 games last season when fatso walk. With hindsight he couldn't have done any worse and he may have surprised us.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue May 14, 2019 1:49 pm

bellwhiff wrote:Of course it’s a cheap option


What’s wrong with that even if it is after having two years of managers wasting the biggest budget the clubs ever had.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby stagmanrob » Tue May 14, 2019 1:50 pm

Conker wrote:
Beano wrote:Have I missed JR stating that there will be budget cuts and that the new manager won’t be backed financially?

Until that becomes obvious, surely any such theories are pure nonsense.

JR has got rid of Flitcroft due to a perceived failure, why would he then not give Flitcroft’s replacement adequate backing to succeed?

Maybe he’s just fed up with “big names” that have done nothing but let him down.


Everyone worried about a budget cut is ridiculous, even if you skimmed £500,000 off I bet it’s still top seven anyway :P

And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.

That's not true depending on how you put that money in. Andy Pilley does it at Fleetwood. Vince does it at Forest Green. Salford have done it, and will continue to do so.

Hardy stated several times that FFP below the Championship is a joke and easy to bypass.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Jamie » Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 pm

Conker wrote:
Jamie wrote:
Conker wrote:And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.


So you're suggesting he's gifted all this extra money the last 2 years? Or that we have actually 'broken even'?


What I’m telling you is we are allowed to spent 55% of income on players wages, and owners loaning money to the club is not included in ‘income’


But things like very expensive sponsorship deals (from One Call etc) do count towards income, right?

I guess that would mean they aren't loans through. I can't see having loaned all the money so far, that any shortfall from the last two years has come directly from his pocket. They will be loans too i guess, somehow.

Either way, without JR's extra money we'd have been mid table fodder the last few years. The biggest question (that no one wants to get into, ever) is what do we do about the fact we owe him millions and don't own our ground...
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Jimstag » Tue May 14, 2019 1:53 pm

Plenty of reading between the lines but you have to assume a lower budget and impetus on bringing youth through. What’s the point in spending money on a youth team, it winning things and then none making it through.

Hopefully we don’t repeat Nottm county’s mistakes from this season, a lot of Nolan’s poor performance was attributed (rightly or wrongly) at trying to lower the average age of the squad and making wholesale changes at the same time.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Random Hero » Tue May 14, 2019 1:54 pm

The more I think about it, the more certain I become that the Radfords plan on pulling out of the club in a couple of years time.

This season was last chance saloon to get us up, we threw everything at it financially. The move to Portugal started me thinking along these lines earlier on in the season, but employing Dempster now just confirms it.

They're preparing the club to be self sustainable and be able to survive without their cash injections. If that's the case, this just the beginning. Expect the staff and playing budget next season to be halved at least. If you think the Radfords will give a manager with no experience in the Football League a blank chequebook, you'd better be prepared to be disappointed.

It's a harsh reality but the future of the club has to come first.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby kcassellsfootygenius » Tue May 14, 2019 1:54 pm

The budget may be cut it all depends how severely it's cut.

I still think it will be very competitive for our league and will be amazed if it's not top 7.

Why should we keep trawling through the same old tired group of managers hoping that they can strike it lucky with us. No doubt it's a gamble and a cheaper solution but John Dempster will be relishing this chance and has been winning for this football club so should get everyones full backing from the chairman on down.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby stagsfan6493 » Tue May 14, 2019 1:56 pm

Random Hero wrote:The more I think about it, the more certain I become that the Radfords plan on pulling out of the club in a couple of years time.

This season was last chance saloon to get us up, we threw everything at it financially. The move to Portugal started me thinking along these lines earlier on in the season, but employing Dempster now just confirms it.

They're preparing the club to be self sustainable and be able to survive without their cash injections. If that's the case, this just the beginning. Expect the staff and playing budget next season to be halved at least. If you think the Radfords will give a manager with no experience in the Football League a blank chequebook, you'd better be prepared to be disappointed.

It's a harsh reality but the future of the club has to come first.

:good_post:
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Jamie » Tue May 14, 2019 1:56 pm

Random Hero wrote:The more I think about it, the more certain I become that the Radfords plan on pulling out of the club in a couple of years time.

This season was last chance saloon to get us up, we threw everything at it financially. The move to Portugal started me thinking along these lines earlier on in the season, but employing Dempster now just confirms it.

They're preparing the club to be self sustainable and be able to survive without their cash injections. If that's the case, this just the beginning. Expect the staff and playing budget next season to be halved at least. If you think the Radfords will give a manager with no experience in the Football League a blank chequebook, you'd better be prepared to be disappointed.

It's a harsh reality but the future of the club has to come first.


Perhaps, but what about the £5m cash we already owe (before the last 2 seasons) and the £2m+ ground HE owns?

If they wanted out or were preparing for that, there are bigger issues / fish to fry than saving a few hundred grand next season or stopping an extras going in...
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby Conker » Tue May 14, 2019 1:57 pm

stagmanrob wrote:
Conker wrote:
Beano wrote:Have I missed JR stating that there will be budget cuts and that the new manager won’t be backed financially?

Until that becomes obvious, surely any such theories are pure nonsense.

JR has got rid of Flitcroft due to a perceived failure, why would he then not give Flitcroft’s replacement adequate backing to succeed?

Maybe he’s just fed up with “big names” that have done nothing but let him down.


Everyone worried about a budget cut is ridiculous, even if you skimmed £500,000 off I bet it’s still top seven anyway :P

And Jamie, you cannot borrow the club money to go towards the 55% income on players wages.

That's not true depending on how you put that money in. Andy Pilley does it at Fleetwood. Vince does it at Forest Green. Salford have done it, and will continue to do so.

Hardy stated several times that FFP below the Championship is a joke and easy to bypass.


Rob that is completely true.

You get around it via sponsorship, and you can still loan the club money - but that cannot go towards the budget you submit to the EFL.
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Re: Budget cut?!?

Postby victor A block » Tue May 14, 2019 2:08 pm

Really worried about this , especially if Dempster leans towards youth players as he doesn't have the league contacts . Have we really got anyone good enough to step up to compete at the top end of League 2 . Graham and Gibbens wernt ready .No question .. If JR had this decision to in mind pre Newport he could have tapped Daryl Clarke up. Not Flicrofts biggest fan but would have given him first 15 games . Whilst we haven't got promotion this could destroy the momentum we have built in the club as a whole .
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