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I blame the manager

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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bellwhiff » Mon May 13, 2019 10:02 am

old ram stag wrote:why would we accept average, it's not inherent that we stay average, in football you get what you pay for with regards quality players, unfortunately DF did not recruit or play well enough, that's not saying the next manager can't or won't just because we care MTFC.

We aren’t average though are we.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Sandy Pate Best Stag » Mon May 13, 2019 10:03 am

You can talk all you like about luck. At the end of the day do we really think this squad was good enough for promotion. I don't certainly not since January when the Evans players were moved out (and let's not forget the number of games some of them played for Flitcroft) and the new lot brought in. I don't think (but don't know) the wage bill went down but were the players any more effective? The simple answer is no they weren't.

Over the close season some of our prize assets will leave the club leaving big holes in the squad. That means a big rebuild and looking back to January, I don't thin Flitcroft is capable of bringing in the players to fill the gap. He has almost admitted that by asking for a recruitment director to do the job for him. You could argue that we don't need to trust Flitcroft but instead rely on the judgement of the recruitment man so who's players are we talking about? And why are they different from Evans' players?

I don't think JR will sack Mr Flitcroft as he will take his time and mull it over. Things always look better in the morning and time is a great healer but unfortunately that doesn't mean things actually get better.

If it's not done now we may as well write another season off as a new man needs a full window to start what will be a large and difficult rebuild.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bellwhiff » Mon May 13, 2019 10:05 am

We will lose some good players but I’ve got confidence that we will get at least as good replacements. Players will want to come here.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Conker » Mon May 13, 2019 10:13 am

Rob wrote:
Jamie wrote:Rob, you've contradicted yourself about budget. Hes either had one where hes expected to deliver (ie top 3 in size) or we've about broken even. Which is it? Our natural income does not give us a top 3 budget.

He has failed to get us up twice now. Once from a good position and once from an almost easy position. He deserves a 3rd and final crack at it but must learn the lessons of this season. We lost our style and ended up hoofing to a weak front line. He has to recognise that and fix it either by not doing it or having a more diverse bench.


The point about income is that by having a large budget has also meant that because we have challenged all season much of this money has been recouped. Of course our natural budget at the start of the season isn't top 3, but if you deliver top 3 by the end of the season you are likely to get close to breaking even. This season I am not sure we did have a top 3 budget, I suspect County, MK Dons and Bury had higher wage bills, we are probably close to Lincoln and Oldham but of course I am guessing!

Next season, if DF is given a top 3 budget then he will be expected to deliver top 3, he has no excuses now, no Evans leftovers to deal with, he can completely build his own squad in the summer.


Rob mate, when the accounts are out make sure we revisit this but to break even with our budget the Mill would have to be packed every week.

Even Lincoln still require external investment to try and match us, John Radford has said it’s a top three budget and we are not breaking even with that without a bunch of One Call money.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby tuopolfpilf » Mon May 13, 2019 10:21 am

A Good manager in any walk of life gets the best out of his staff

I believe 3 main factors where he has failed is ..

Grant A player with a previous record of doing well and has under performed

CJ , A talented player who has not reached his potential

Anjose, bought in January to aid the final push for automatic promotion, failed miserably
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Chander Lear » Mon May 13, 2019 10:33 am

CJ a player who has significantly improved under DF whilst covering multiple positions. He is still young, he wont peak yet imo.

Ajose is a weird one.... I like him. His movement off the ball is excellent.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby stagsfan6493 » Mon May 13, 2019 10:36 am

Chander Lear wrote:CJ a player who has significantly improved under DF whilst covering multiple positions. He is still young, he wont peak yet imo.

Ajose is a weird one.... I like him. His movement off the ball is excellent.

That is poor management though - one thing he needs to change over summer is the obsession that CJ can play everywhere (if we keep him).

He makes one of our better players ineffective by switching him around every game.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby gavinbrookes » Mon May 13, 2019 11:55 am

As someone alluded earlier in this thread and others, the question is not just would you trust DF but the set-up as a whole. That includes Greg Abbott. Abbott was brought in just before the January window to handle our transfer dealings, giving Flitcroft more time on the training pitch. For whatever reason, that hasn't translated into success; the January business has turned out to be poor and both performances and results have declined since 2019.

I am not sure what to make of all of this. On the one hand I feel like it's fair to give DF a chance but on the other hand I also have absolutely no confidence in Greg Abbott to lead our recruitment (look at how he has fared in that role both here and at the now-relegated Bradford City).

So, with my confidence in DF as a manager waning and having zero confidence in our Football Operations Manager (or whatever his title is), I'm not optimistic for next season. I'd expect Leyton Orient, Bradford, Plymouth and Salford to be strong next year. With our loan players returning and CJ and potentially others moving on, next season is going to be a rebuild whatever the case. Therefore, with something of a heavy heart, I'd have to say that if we can get a manager like Keith Hill in, I would relieve Flitcroft and Abbott of their duties, centralise recruitment and coaching and entrust an experienced manager to build a new squad capable of promotion from this league and which can compete in the L1.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby sw19stag » Mon May 13, 2019 12:07 pm

gavinbrookes wrote:As someone alluded earlier in this thread and others, the question is not just would you trust DF but the set-up as a whole. That includes Greg Abbott. Abbott was brought in just before the January window to handle our transfer dealings, giving Flitcroft more time on the training pitch. For whatever reason, that hasn't translated into success; the January business has turned out to be poor and both performances and results have declined since 2019.

I am not sure what to make of all of this. On the one hand I feel like it's fair to give DF a chance but on the other hand I also have absolutely no confidence in Greg Abbott to lead our recruitment (look at how he has fared in that role both here and at the now-relegated Bradford City).

So, with my confidence in DF as a manager waning and having zero confidence in our Football Operations Manager (or whatever his title is), I'm not optimistic for next season. I'd expect Leyton Orient, Bradford, Plymouth and Salford to be strong next year. With our loan players returning and CJ and potentially others moving on, next season is going to be a rebuild whatever the case. Therefore, with something of a heavy heart, I'd have to say that if we can get a manager like Keith Hill in, I would relieve Flitcroft and Abbott of their duties, centralise recruitment and coaching and entrust an experienced manager to build a new squad capable of promotion from this league and which can compete in the L1.



Fair comment.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby tillydog123 » Mon May 13, 2019 3:28 pm

Yes agree don’t have full confidence in Flop it now
A re build was not what everyone was saying would need to happen due to the policy and long term plan of DF
The plan has failed so far and another season with DF I think will be more of the same
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby part time pete » Mon May 13, 2019 10:47 pm

Surely Greg Abbott was brought in to cover some of the duties that Carolyn was doing now that the Radford’s have moved to Portugal.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon May 13, 2019 10:53 pm

part time pete wrote:Surely Greg Abbott was brought in to cover some of the duties that Carolyn was doing now that the Radford’s have moved to Portugal.



The 55-year-old will further advance the efficiency of all football matters, which will enable manager David Flitcroft to focus solely on developing the first team on a day-to-day basis.

Greg will work closely with the manager as well as chairman John Radford and chief executive Carolyn Radford in expanding the dynamics and structure of the club.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Mon May 13, 2019 10:54 pm

I didn't know Carolyn was doing the scouting Pete but I think she helped bring in Neal Bishop as she knew his wife.

I think it was also JR and Carloyn's good relationship with Forest that helped us sign Tyler Walker.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bobbystagsfan » Mon May 13, 2019 10:56 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I didn't know Carolyn was doing the scouting Pete but I think she helped bring in Neal Bishop as she knew his wife.

I think it was also JR and Carloyn's good relationship with Forest that helped us sign Tyler Walker.




And also Alan hardy being a bell about them recalling Ryan Yates and sending him out to someone else on loan helped
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby part time pete » Mon May 13, 2019 11:29 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I didn't know Carolyn was doing the scouting Pete but I think she helped bring in Neal Bishop as she knew his wife.

I think it was also JR and Carloyn's good relationship with Forest that helped us sign Tyler Walker.



I thought Greg was negotiating contracts as well and dealing with agents who wanted their players to play at Mansfield
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby adamstag » Tue May 14, 2019 7:49 am

The problem is that he’s clearly demonstrated that he folds under pressure, when push comes to shove he chokes.

So folk could be looking at a healthy table at Christmas with that horrid feeling that 4 months later when things come to a head things will fall apart.

You have to wonder if we’ve a bang average league 2 manager in charge still basking off the glories of 1 season with the biggest budget in the league at the time.

Bury and Swindon fans warned he had a history of his sides not turning up for the big games, of no plan B and panicking when he loses. I had hoped they wouldn’t have been so accurate

I still think he “just about” deserves another chance but it would be nice to see signs that he’s learning - maybe someone about who can actually motivate the players for big games coming into help
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Vicar Jeremiah » Tue May 14, 2019 8:38 am

Now that the tsunami has passed and the dust has settled, my thoughts:

To pass up one opportunity of promotion is careless, to mess up on two is bordering on criminal.

Something is clearly not working as results decline as the season comes to the business end. Is it fitness, is it all in the mind?
I would have thought that JR is considering his options and we may get a statement on the manager , one way or another, within a week.

He must be totally gutted at how its turned out. The older fans like me would like to see promotion before we are laid to rest. The younger fans bat it off with sayings like `we go again` which is fair enough, given the innocence of youth.

To get us up there again DF will need a fire in his belly like never before, has he got it, who knows?

Sunday night my opinion was replace him forthwith, now on reflection, I say give him one last go at the Holy Grail

Ultimately its up to the Owner and his wisdom

`for wisdom is more precious than rubies`

Proverbs Ch8 V11
Kylie Minogue - God's gift to mankind
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby tillydog123 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:45 am

I am on same page as Vicar J, I am running out of years to wait for the Stags to get to the promised land and feel that DF is not going to cut it here.
He will get another season as JR is as loyal as he is generous to those in his business plans and business world.

Don't know much about the scriptures but I do look to heaven for inspiration for next season and maybe third time lucky !!

Whats good for JR and CR is good for me !!
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby PRL13 » Tue May 14, 2019 9:56 am

If you put yourself in his position, do you really think he thinks he deserves another chance? If he is honest, I think the answer is no!
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