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I blame the manager

Postby MTFCMAD » Mon May 13, 2019 12:18 am

How do we go from playing passing attacking football to literally in the space of a week go to playing long balls down the channels and still persist with this tactic which did not work.

How do we go into the last game of the season with personal playing in positions which have never played this position before this season.

These are questions which need answers before Flitcroft is allowed more money to build his squad.

The football for the first 23 games is unidentifiable to the last 23 games and the managers decision to keep with this hoof ball shows me he was hoping to drag his team over the promotion line with no other plan at his disposal.

Gutted to be spending another season in this league as now it looks a lot more harder to get out of.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby CassellsCap » Mon May 13, 2019 1:09 am

we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby SINA STAG » Mon May 13, 2019 6:44 am

Only mistake DF made was to let Timmi go back to Derby n bring in the exspensive show pony who thinks he's actually better than he is.

DF can't be blamed for the injuries to White n Bobby but in the other side of the coin the lack of goals from other players than Walker didn't help our step over the line it's a shame DF didn't have the nerve to play on of the young strikers who scoring for fun in reserve games.

We all can point the finger at DF he's the boss n should take 90% of the blame for not providing cover for players going out injured he swapped the keepers over 3 times in the season no wonder players got nervous in games knowing if they make a mistake they will be dropped unless you can't do anything wrong in DF eyes

All the above need sorting before the start of next season.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Sneag » Mon May 13, 2019 6:53 am

CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Mon May 13, 2019 8:09 am

Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


I wouldn't want Flynn, he's another anti football, send 'm out to intimidate kind of manager. They tread a fine line and got lucky with two weak refs in these play off games, the lead with the elbow early on last night was another red but got away with it again.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Rob » Mon May 13, 2019 8:36 am

Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


Do you really think I am the only one saying you have to give a manager more than 14 months? I think if you read this board a little deeper than a few posts by jpstags, Hjelde and a few other usual suspects, I think most sensible, patient fans are prepared to give DF this summer to strengthen - but I think for even the most patient of us, this will be his last chance, fail to secure top 3 then I will agree it will be time for a change. I suspect JR will be of the same mind so ultimately the whining of a few on here is pretty pointless, especially as they are probably in the minority. Furthermore, even though fans will point to the wage budget DF had, I'd guess that overall this season the club has been pretty close to breaking even. Last time we did better than 4th in League 2 was 17 years ago and we came straight back down, I think some on here are starting to get Luton syndrome.

DF has made plenty of mistakes but has also been extremely unlucky, serious long term injuries to key players and last night an injury to our most important player - add that to some incredibly poor decisions against us which I do not think evened out over the season then I would say the gods have not been kind to us this season overall. But, ultimately I don't think we were quite good enough this season overall, the loan signings in January didn't really click though of course at the time we all thought they were good signings. We need a minor clear out of the remaining players who have barely contributed and keep the vital players like Pearce and Bishop. As I've said on another thread I'd sign Turner instantly and would use freed up cash from those released to sign a couple of top quality strikers. Although I like Rose and his whole hearted attitude, a striker who can't score is not what is needed to get top 3 - get a reasonable offer then I think he should move on.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Sneag » Mon May 13, 2019 8:37 am

Woodclanger 1 wrote:
Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


I wouldn't want Flynn, he's another anti football, send 'm out to intimidate kind of manager. They tread a fine line and got lucky with two weak refs in these play off games, the lead with the elbow early on last night was another red but got away with it again.


He's getting the best out of the tools he has at his disposal. Ugly football, but a good manager. He'll be at Cardiff or Swansea next.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Woodclanger 1 » Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 am

Sneag wrote:
Woodclanger 1 wrote:
Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


I wouldn't want Flynn, he's another anti football, send 'm out to intimidate kind of manager. They tread a fine line and got lucky with two weak refs in these play off games, the lead with the elbow early on last night was another red but got away with it again.


He's getting the best out of the tools he has at his disposal. Ugly football, but a good manager. He'll be at Cardiff or Swansea next.


So did Cox but I wouldn't want to watch that for the rest of my days.
Now if you could give DF a motivational transplant from Flynn I'd take it
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Sneag » Mon May 13, 2019 8:43 am

Rob wrote:
Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


Do you really think I am the only one saying you have to give a manager more than 14 months? I think if you read this board a little deeper than a few posts by jpstags, Hjelde and a few other usual suspects, I think most sensible, patient fans are prepared to give DF this summer to strengthen - but I think for even the most patient of us, this will be his last chance, fail to secure top 3 then I will agree it will be time for a change. I suspect JR will be of the same mind so ultimately the whining of a few on here is pretty pointless, especially as they are probably in the minority. Furthermore, even though fans will point to the wage budget DF had, I'd guess that overall this season the club has been pretty close to breaking even. Last time we did better than 4th in League 2 was 17 years ago and we came straight back down, I think some on here are starting to get Luton syndrome.

DF has made plenty of mistakes but has also been extremely unlucky, serious long term injuries to key players and last night an injury to our most important player - add that to some incredibly poor decisions against us which I do not think evened out over the season then I would say the gods have not been kind to us this season overall. But, ultimately I don't think we were quite good enough this season overall, the loan signings in January didn't really click though of course at the time we all thought they were good signings. We need a minor clear out of the remaining players who have barely contributed and keep the vital players like Pearce and Bishop. As I've said on another thread I'd sign Turner instantly and would use freed up cash from those released to sign a couple of top quality strikers. Although I like Rose and his whole hearted attitude, a striker who can't score is not what is needed to get top 3 - get a reasonable offer then I think he should move on.


I see your point Rob I really do and my normal default position is give a manager at least two seasons. But I honestly think this man is a total fraud.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Rob » Mon May 13, 2019 8:55 am

Sneag wrote:I see your point Rob I really do and my normal default position is give a manager at least two seasons. But I honestly think this man is a total fraud.


Well that's where we very much disagree, I don't and just do not see any evidence whatsoever of him being a "fraud". However, if things do not go well next season, then it will be time to move on. When you are given the budget he is then you must deliver, he was close enough this season to deserve another crack, this time with entirely his own squad.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby EdwinstoweStag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:02 am

Some people!!!!!

Deal with your disappointment. There’s absolutely no sense in changing the management just because we finished fourth - our best position for years.

Enjoy your summer. Let’s all come back next season and play our part in building on what has been achieved so far.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby yaxhamstag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:04 am

EdwinstoweStag wrote:Some people!!!!!

Deal with your disappointment. There’s absolutely no sense in changing the management just because we finished fourth - our best position for years.

Enjoy your summer. Let’s all come back next season and play our part in building on what has been achieved so far.

Spot on. Deal with it. Move on. Come back stronger.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bellwhiff » Mon May 13, 2019 9:08 am

Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.

Haha. Ridiculous to say he’s not earned another season

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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Sneag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:09 am

bellwhiff wrote:
Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.

Haha. Ridiculous to say he’s not earned another season

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I know. We do like to reward failure.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby bellwhiff » Mon May 13, 2019 9:13 am

Sneag wrote:
Rob wrote:
Sneag wrote:
CassellsCap wrote:we don’t have a divine right to be in a higher division..just like all the other teams


No one says we do. This is a non argument used by people who want to keep DF.

It's up there with 'who would you get in' like there is a national shortage of professional coaches and ' sacking DF means we have to start all over again. Newsflash, this squad will see a 40% staff churn over the summer regardless of who is boss.

All clubs through a season will suffer setbacks, injuries to key players, key players losing form, dodgy referee calls etc, but the buck always stops at the managers door. They all know that, it's why no manager I can think of ever admits a mistake, they all want to blame someone else.

I don't think DF will get sacked and with JRs money he might be successful next year. But I think (my opinion other are available and valid) he is a poor manager.

Compare & contrast the job he's done with his opposite number last night. Look at the squad & position Flynn inherited and the resources at his disposal. Rob of course will argue that Flynn had an extra season but Flynn earned the time, not sure DF has.


Do you really think I am the only one saying you have to give a manager more than 14 months? I think if you read this board a little deeper than a few posts by jpstags, Hjelde and a few other usual suspects, I think most sensible, patient fans are prepared to give DF this summer to strengthen - but I think for even the most patient of us, this will be his last chance, fail to secure top 3 then I will agree it will be time for a change. I suspect JR will be of the same mind so ultimately the whining of a few on here is pretty pointless, especially as they are probably in the minority. Furthermore, even though fans will point to the wage budget DF had, I'd guess that overall this season the club has been pretty close to breaking even. Last time we did better than 4th in League 2 was 17 years ago and we came straight back down, I think some on here are starting to get Luton syndrome.

DF has made plenty of mistakes but has also been extremely unlucky, serious long term injuries to key players and last night an injury to our most important player - add that to some incredibly poor decisions against us which I do not think evened out over the season then I would say the gods have not been kind to us this season overall. But, ultimately I don't think we were quite good enough this season overall, the loan signings in January didn't really click though of course at the time we all thought they were good signings. We need a minor clear out of the remaining players who have barely contributed and keep the vital players like Pearce and Bishop. As I've said on another thread I'd sign Turner instantly and would use freed up cash from those released to sign a couple of top quality strikers. Although I like Rose and his whole hearted attitude, a striker who can't score is not what is needed to get top 3 - get a reasonable offer then I think he should move on.


I see your point Rob I really do and my normal default position is give a manager at least two seasons. But I honestly think this man is a total fraud.


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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Jamie » Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 am

Rob, you've contradicted yourself about budget. Hes either had one where hes expected to deliver (ie top 3 in size) or we've about broken even. Which is it? Our natural income does not give us a top 3 budget.

He has failed to get us up twice now. Once from a good position and once from an almost easy position. He deserves a 3rd and final crack at it but must learn the lessons of this season. We lost our style and ended up hoofing to a weak front line. He has to recognise that and fix it either by not doing it or having a more diverse bench.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby arsene wengers coat » Mon May 13, 2019 9:21 am

Blame Tyler walker for his petulant red card and missing a penalty.
Blame the Colchester player for breaking Hayden's leg.
Blame injuries to Craig Davies and Danny Rose.
Blame Neal Bishop's age.
Blame Steve Evans' wastefulness.
Blame our high expectations.
Blame our in-game tactics.
Blame Conrad Logan's penalty giveaways.
Blame the refs and the linesmen
Blame the first XI mental fragility
Blame the manager.
Blame John Radford for hiring the manager.

So many things over the course of a season, to lay blame at one thing or person is ludicrous. It's a multitude of sins that 'failed' us this season.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Rob » Mon May 13, 2019 9:32 am

Jamie wrote:Rob, you've contradicted yourself about budget. Hes either had one where hes expected to deliver (ie top 3 in size) or we've about broken even. Which is it? Our natural income does not give us a top 3 budget.

He has failed to get us up twice now. Once from a good position and once from an almost easy position. He deserves a 3rd and final crack at it but must learn the lessons of this season. We lost our style and ended up hoofing to a weak front line. He has to recognise that and fix it either by not doing it or having a more diverse bench.


The point about income is that by having a large budget has also meant that because we have challenged all season much of this money has been recouped. Of course our natural budget at the start of the season isn't top 3, but if you deliver top 3 by the end of the season you are likely to get close to breaking even. This season I am not sure we did have a top 3 budget, I suspect County, MK Dons and Bury had higher wage bills, we are probably close to Lincoln and Oldham but of course I am guessing!

Next season, if DF is given a top 3 budget then he will be expected to deliver top 3, he has no excuses now, no Evans leftovers to deal with, he can completely build his own squad in the summer.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby old ram stag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:33 am

I have two questions which have come out of this season, why the total change in our style of play early in 2019 from total football to long ball? and why are we so negative at set pieces bringing everyone back for every corner and long throw ?, I think he's had his chance and we need a manager who can finish the job, it's a long season and from what we've seen DF seems to have issues with the last 3 months of it.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Rob » Mon May 13, 2019 9:37 am

old ram stag wrote:I have two questions which have come out of this season, why the total change in our style of play early in 2019 from total football to long ball? and why are we so negative at set pieces bringing everyone back for every corner and long throw ?, I think he's had his chance and we need a manager who can finish the job, it's a long season and from what we've seen DF seems to have issues with the last 3 months of it.


Funny, you've not mentioned you want DF sacked before :lol: I think we have been very inconsistent the latter half of the season, when we get anxious we go long ball, I do not think DF tells his players to do that and many times yesterday you could see the sidelines frustrated in the 1st half when Logan kicked it long. We were much better 2nd half. I think ultimately we just never quite had the midfield balance to play how he wants to, Bishop was head and shoulders above the rest of the midfield, we need a couple more like him who can keep the ball.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby old ram stag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:48 am

your correct rob i have never been convinced by him, I hate his soundbite interviews that make no sense, and the constant dribble about how good the fans were, it's his job to sort the football out, and ultimately at end of the race our Mercedes has come in forth.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby tillydog123 » Mon May 13, 2019 9:49 am

I think DF must accept part of the responsibility when we have gone from second to having to go through the agony off play offs which quite a few of us said would be a waste for the team in their current slump and as it proved.

The MK Dons match was mission possible but turned out to be a full blown Tom Cruise movie
If I am honest I don't know why we slumped like we did and when people ask I can't give much of an answer.

The defeat at County started the demise in my view.

Anyway felt last night like the candle had suddenly blown out for now and we are in this dark place of going back to Morecombe and Crawley again and so we need re light it again in August but its going to be tough to get out of this league by the look of it and with Walsall ,Bradford, Salford and Leyton Orient all likely to be near the top its going to be a tough one

My last comment is to say thanks to JR and CR... AGAIN... they have done more than their bit, players need to look at themselves but we dust ourselves down and maybe third time lucky.

Yes sign Turner if he wants to stay and hope Bishop can manage another season and Pearce as well
Apart from maybe Mellis /Sweeney/Preston unless under contract as not sure who or who isn't clear most of the rest out.

Perhaps deep down like others have posted we have to accept that MTFC is an average to good top 10 league 2 side and maybe always will be and we are not destined for much higher regardless of JR's hopes.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Conker » Mon May 13, 2019 9:54 am

I blame the manager too, but I still think we are better off giving him another pop at it than starting again.

Questions need to be asked why his teams cannot get over the line, why he cannot win the big games, and how his summer business was brilliant but his January was disastrous.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby old ram stag » Mon May 13, 2019 9:57 am

why would we accept average, it's not inherent that we stay average, in football you get what you pay for with regards quality players, unfortunately DF did not recruit or play well enough, that's not saying the next manager can't or won't just because we care MTFC.
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Re: I blame the manager

Postby Hjeldefan » Mon May 13, 2019 9:59 am

Rob wrote:
Jamie wrote:Rob, you've contradicted yourself about budget. Hes either had one where hes expected to deliver (ie top 3 in size) or we've about broken even. Which is it? Our natural income does not give us a top 3 budget.

He has failed to get us up twice now. Once from a good position and once from an almost easy position. He deserves a 3rd and final crack at it but must learn the lessons of this season. We lost our style and ended up hoofing to a weak front line. He has to recognise that and fix it either by not doing it or having a more diverse bench.


The point about income is that by having a large budget has also meant that because we have challenged all season much of this money has been recouped. Of course our natural budget at the start of the season isn't top 3, but if you deliver top 3 by the end of the season you are likely to get close to breaking even. This season I am not sure we did have a top 3 budget, I suspect County, MK Dons and Bury had higher wage bills, we are probably close to Lincoln and Oldham but of course I am guessing!

Next season, if DF is given a top 3 budget then he will be expected to deliver top 3, he has no excuses now, no Evans leftovers to deal with, he can completely build his own squad in the summer.

Genuine question, if we finished 4th next year and lost in the playoffs would you still want Flitcroft as manager?
Hjeldefan
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