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Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby MTFCMusings » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:45 pm

Listen to the NTT20 podcast from yesterday with Blades analytics. He was very active on twitter talking about analytics and was picked up by DMac at Posh and is now part of their recruitment team, one of the best in the EFL. He works with a company called MRKT Insights that advise clubs on setting up an effective recruitment department based on data and analytics.

We would be a prime candidate for this having wasted our big budget for three seasons on the trot, and now would be a perfect time with the rebuild needed. I have tried to make the Radfords aware as this would give us an edge in the market but have had no response as of yet (I only contact them this afternoon)
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Billy the fish » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:40 pm

S7AGS wrote:
Cleveland_Stag wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Carlisle Utd have sold 17 year old centre half, Jarrad Branthwaite, to Everton.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/181 ... e-everton/


The fee is apparently between £750,000 - £1,000,000


With all out focus on developing youth, new training ground etc....how come its always other teams that seemingly don't spend as much on it all end up selling lads on for £m's even the likes of county in the last few years have done it


Easy a proper scouting network
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:46 pm

cassellswasmagic wrote:
S7AGS wrote:
Cleveland_Stag wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Carlisle Utd have sold 17 year old centre half, Jarrad Branthwaite, to Everton.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/181 ... e-everton/


The fee is apparently between £750,000 - £1,000,000


With all out focus on developing youth, new training ground etc....how come its always other teams that seemingly don't spend as much on it all end up selling lads on for £m's even the likes of county in the last few years have done it

Because they are clever. Always sell if a club comes in with silly money. That’s what we should have done with CJ imo, if rumours were true. It’s JRs money though, so it’s whether he needs the cash.


no concrete offer came in for CJ... just newspaper talk.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Sedgwick » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:48 pm

Billy the fish wrote:
S7AGS wrote:
Cleveland_Stag wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Carlisle Utd have sold 17 year old centre half, Jarrad Branthwaite, to Everton.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/181 ... e-everton/


The fee is apparently between £750,000 - £1,000,000


With all out focus on developing youth, new training ground etc....how come its always other teams that seemingly don't spend as much on it all end up selling lads on for £m's even the likes of county in the last few years have done it


Easy a proper scouting network


We have all the foundations in place but get key things wrong... like above, our scooting network is non existent.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:51 pm

Sedgwick wrote:
Billy the fish wrote:
S7AGS wrote:
Cleveland_Stag wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:Carlisle Utd have sold 17 year old centre half, Jarrad Branthwaite, to Everton.

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/181 ... e-everton/


The fee is apparently between £750,000 - £1,000,000


With all out focus on developing youth, new training ground etc....how come its always other teams that seemingly don't spend as much on it all end up selling lads on for £m's even the likes of county in the last few years have done it


Easy a proper scouting network


We have all the foundations in place but get key things wrong... like above, our scooting network is non existent.


I'd rather see our budget cut by 10% and that money invested in a good scouting network!

Would love to see us follow the Peterborough Blue print.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:37 pm

I don't think you need a great scouting network to sign the players that Peterborough normally sign. They are normally young players with loads of potential who have done well at League 2 or non-league level. You just need to be prepared to take punt by paying out a big transfer fee and/or big wages.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby James » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:38 pm

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I don't think you need a great scouting network to sign the players that Peterborough normally sign. They are normally young players with loads of potential who have done well at League 2 or non-league level. You just need to be prepared to take punt by paying out a big transfer fee and/or big wages.


I don’t think they just ‘take a punt’ as you put it. The success rate they have with regards to signing players suggests it’s a little more complex than that.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Conker » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

O’Connor leaving Lincoln for Salford to be announced soon.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby MTFCMAD » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:50 pm

James wrote:
Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I don't think you need a great scouting network to sign the players that Peterborough normally sign. They are normally young players with loads of potential who have done well at League 2 or non-league level. You just need to be prepared to take punt by paying out a big transfer fee and/or big wages.


I don’t think they just ‘take a punt’ as you put it. The success rate they have with regards to signing players suggests it’s a little more complex than that.


I don't think making £21.6m profit from 8 players shows evidence they just take a punt on players. If anything that quotes probably a bit disrespectful to PUFC.

Look at the players they have at the minute who they could sell for high fees. Pym, Maddison and Toney if sold this transfer window would bring in a combined fee alone of over £4m.

What's Jr got to show for all his money he's spent on players???

Jr needs to be 1000 times smarter how he spends his money on football players!
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby NorthLondonStag » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:18 am

It’s a good point about recruitment policy. Our main signings this year were Cook and Maynard. Both further on in their careers and unlikely to have a significant resale value at this stage. The other ‘signings’ were loans where clearly you aren’t going to make any cash.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby MTFCMAD » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:40 am

NorthLondonStag wrote:It’s a good point about recruitment policy. Our main signings this year were Cook and Maynard. Both further on in their careers and unlikely to have a significant resale value at this stage. The other ‘signings’ were loans where clearly you aren’t going to make any cash.


The club needs to change there philosophy ASAP with regards to how we spend our money imo.

I would much rather see us spend £200k-£300k on young players a season who have been well scouted and analysed than 29/30 year old journey men with no proper re sale value.

The club needs to start making some big money back for JR and the only way it can do that is for JR to change his recruitment policy and I feel the Peterborough way is the way forward given the level of investment we currently have.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Tippy Tappy Football » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:40 am

The point I am making is that you did not need a great scouting network to sign most of the players that Peterborough have signed. They have usually already done really well at League 2 or non-league level. The likes of Dwight Gayle, Aaron McLean, Lee Tomlin, Ryan Bennett, Jack Marriott, Conor Washington, Chrysty Pym, James Toney, Mo Eisa, Frankie Kent, Siriki Dembele, Matt Godden, Alex Woodyard, Ryan Tafazolli, Gwion Edwards, George Cooper, Jack Baldwin etc would have been on the wish lists of most League 1 and League 2 clubs. Peterborough have just been brave in paying out big transfer fees and/or big wages for these players. They have obviously not made money on all of these players.

Interestingly, Darragh MacAnthony said at a Fans Forum that the club needs to find around £4 million per season to break even so the club is losing loads of money and is very dependant on making profits from player sales. I thought I would check out their accounts from when he bought the club in September 2006 and it seems what he was saying is basically correct. Their accounts show the following:

Y/E 31st May 2019: £1.1 million loss (including £4.4 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2018: £482,000 profit (including £1.5 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2017: £1.4 million loss (figure for profit on player disposals not disclosed in the accounts)
Y/E 31st May 2016: £200,000 loss (figure for profit on player disposals not disclosed in the accounts)
Y/E 31st May 2015: £2 million loss (including £2.3 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2014: £1.8 million profit (including £6.2 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2013: £45,000 loss (including £1.7 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2012: £3.6 million profit (including £5.3 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2011: £2.8 million loss (including £1.8 million profit on player disposals)
Y/E 31st May 2010: £230,000 loss
Y/E 31st May 2009: £2.6 million loss
Y/E 31st May 2008: £1.2 million loss
Y/E 31st May 2007: £1.1 million loss
Y/E 31st May 2006: £602,000 loss
Y/E 31st May 2005: £563,000 loss

The club has made around £7.5 million losses from 2006 including around £23 million profit from player disposals. The latter figure could be much higher as figures for player disposals for years ended 2016 and 2017 are missing. A £7.5 million loss for 13 seasons is not bad at all compared to many other clubs but Peterborough are very heavily dependant on their player sales. Darragh MacAnthony has made their system work for them. It's a big gamble as if they get it wrong then they could be in big trouble and he's still had to loan the club around £7 million.

Britt Assombalonga was a very brave signing - paying £1.25 million for a player who had made 4 league appearances for Watford and who had scored 15 goals in 43 league appearances on loan for Southend.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby James » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:51 am

So if they were on the radar for every L1 & L2 Club, why isn’t everyone doing it? Surely if it was just Peterborough just ‘taking a punt’ as you keep putting it, then surely a few other sides would’ve seen it working and gone for the same players?

I think you’re completely under estimating the quality in recruitment they have. For it to work once is luck, for the amount of times it’s worked for them it’s bloody good planning and scouting.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby daddycool » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:54 am

I think the last lower league player we took a punt on was Ollie Palmer
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby The One » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:59 am

daddycool wrote:I think the last lower league player we took a punt on was Ollie Palmer


CJ ?
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby STAGS FOR LIFE » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:19 am

Think it was Omari Sterling James :?:
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby yorkshire stag » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:43 am

haven’t we had our fingers burnt once with this process when we got Otis?, I know you can’t get it right every time but let’s be honest we all thought Otis was going to be our next Sam Clucas, however sadly as tends to be the normal with us we failed miserably. maybe one day we will pick that gem up from our own academy you never know.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Conker » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:58 am

Khan never really got a solid run of games, other than the start of his first season here before his injury - he was brilliant.

Be great to see him in the team every week.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby MTFCMusings » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:12 am

Tippy Tappy Football wrote:I don't think you need a great scouting network to sign the players that Peterborough normally sign. They are normally young players with loads of potential who have done well at League 2 or non-league level. You just need to be prepared to take punt by paying out a big transfer fee and/or big wages.


Posh use data and analytics, as per my post at the top of this page. Only 30% of the 92 do this, the majority of the 30% are Prem clubs. We could gain a real edge with the budget we have if we started doing this. Still no response from The Radfords.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby James » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:24 am

yorkshire stag wrote:haven’t we had our fingers burnt once with this process when we got Otis?, I know you can’t get it right every time but let’s be honest we all thought Otis was going to be our next Sam Clucas, however sadly as tends to be the normal with us we failed miserably. maybe one day we will pick that gem up from our own academy you never know.


We've failed with Otis Khan ironically due to our recruitment policy. Not so much with signing him but with signing Grant when he was sat on the bench.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby Martin Shaw » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:56 am

"Four points clear as Lincoln are McCaffreyised", CHAD headline, April 1975
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby part time pete » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:16 am

Martin Shaw wrote:



I wonder how much Brexit and getting work permits in future affected his decision to go back to the EU.
Can we play Accrington Stanley every week.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby bellwhiff » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:18 am

part time pete wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:



I wonder how much Brexit and getting work permits in future affected his decision to go back to the EU.


Almost certainly zero.
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby The One » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:29 am

part time pete wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:



I wonder how much Brexit and getting work permits in future affected his decision to go back to the EU.


Nil. But good scaremongering :D
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Re: Players Released, Transfers & Loans 2019-2020

Postby marker_mtfc95 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:37 am

part time pete wrote:
Martin Shaw wrote:



I wonder how much Brexit and getting work permits in future affected his decision to go back to the EU.



What a stupid question.
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