Four to go

[ParisStag]

We've definitely got the best fixture on paper this Friday.

Morecambe, who have nothing to play for, at home is way better than Notts County away, Newport away or Forest Green at home. I fancy some or all of our rivals to drop points so I reckon a win will put us in a great position. I predict it to look like this after Friday...

Stags - 76
Bury - 74
Tranmere - 74
MK - 73

[Spiritater]

One thing is certain weve guaranteed a place off place an improvement on last season

It's an improvement if you win them, if you don't it's no better than finishing 8th.

Not really though. An improvement is participating in them when you wasn't good enough to the previous season. If we finish 4th and lose in the play offs we would still be the 4th best side over the 46 games.

The trouble is though Gazza, losing in the playoffs can (but not always) be very detrimental to the prospects the following season. A near miss can result in your better players becoming unsettled and looking to move on. The biggest risk for us would be another year without promotion is another year cliser to JR's tipping point, when he might think he's flushing money down the bog for nil reward.

Lincoln lost in the play offs last year and they've done fine this season. .

We lost the playoff 11/12 season then went up as champions the following year.

The key is letting a manager get on with his job. There were calls for Cox to go and JR stuck by him. Cowleys were under some pressure at one point. You can argue that next season is Flitcroft's first, with the players he wants.

Luckily alot of our better players are on deals next season so if they want to go, we set the price.

..and Clownty?

[gazza1988]

Did they let their manager get on with his job? or did they spend the season with 3 different managers and big Al and little Al?

[adamstag]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

[Rob]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

[adamstag]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

We have a promotion budget, therefore promotion should be delivered, otherwise it would be a failure. It’s pretty simple really. I’m not sure JR would see a promotion budget and another league 2 campaign next season as a success...

Previously we wouldn’t have had that budget so playoffs etc would be a bonus, this isn’t the case here, especially after last season for a combination of reasons.

We should keep DF either way, though I’m sure promotion will be ours anyway

[arsene wengers coat]

Managers need 4 transfer windows before they can truly be judged. Only then are there no excuses.

Flitcroft has had 2, and is well over half way to assembling a team good enough to challenge.

[Richard Cranium]

Our budget might well be a top 3 but how much was being spent on Evans wasters like Butcher, Diamond, Mirfin and Anderson..

[Amber Andy]

If we finish in the playoffs and don't achieve promotion I will be disappointed. However, that will be an improvement on last season. Big budgets don't guarantee promotion. Having a season with no long term injuries to key players, and a team that gels is probably more important.

[adamstag]

If we finish in the playoffs and don't achieve promotion I will be disappointed. However, that will be an improvement on last season. Big budgets don't guarantee promotion. Having a season with no long term injuries to key players, and a team that gels is probably more important.

absolutely. Had white and olijnik not been injured I think we could already be up

[Bradders]

This season has been a promotion push, so whichever way you look at it if we don't get promotion it's a failure.
But there's a big difference between narrowly failing, and the Notts County-style massive failure.
We've had a few slices of bad luck this season (as usual with the Stags, more than our fair share), without which we'd probably be just about promoted now. Luck aside, the team does still have a couple of major problems which Flitcroft hasn't been able to get to grips with, but that's probably a matter of time. If we can scrape promotion he'll most likely strengthen the side in just the right way next season, and mould the squad into an effective unit much better as it's on the back of the previous season.
As far as "should he be sacked if we fail to get promotion"? It would be ridiculous to even ask the question. Obviously he should be given another full season based on the progress made this time around. At the very least, gambling that Flitcroft has better luck next time is a better bet than gambling that another manager has the magic touch.

[Rob]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

We have a promotion budget, therefore promotion should be delivered, otherwise it would be a failure. It’s pretty simple really. I’m not sure JR would see a promotion budget and another league 2 campaign next season as a success...

Previously we wouldn’t have had that budget so playoffs etc would be a bonus, this isn’t the case here, especially after last season for a combination of reasons.

We should keep DF either way, though I’m sure promotion will be ours anyway

Well you might see a season spent mostly at the top end of the league, high attendances and some fantastic football as failure, for me it is enormous progress - as I said, it's about perspective. JR will stick with our manager, he knows that stability breeds success and that changing managers often is a recipe for disaster. I do not know for sure if we have a top 3 budget, I am pretty sure we have a top 7 budget. DF was still laden with Evans failures in the last window - this summer he has completely free reign. If we do not make it this season, he has no excuse next season and top 3 it absolutely must be.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Whether you are a DF supporter or not, and I believe a huge percentage of the support is, (the nay sayers don't appear to be many in number to me ) the disappointment, if there is any in a season where we have been around the top 6 has been the complete inability to put away teams in the bottom, mid table areas without on some occasions having a shot at goal. Coupled with the huge amount of draws early on in the season, the level of performance in some of these games has been frustrating.
We have Morecambe on Friday at home, another team with nothing to play for, we should be all over them like a rash. No excuses.
I want DF to succeed I think he should be in charge next season, but we have right now despite some hiccups a golden chance to get up, they should seize this opportunity and put away the likes of the opposition we face tomorrow. The inspiration must come from him.

[adamstag]

The debate isn’t about whether the club is going in the right direction - off the field were in better health than I’ve seen since I was going regularly on the mid 90- unfortunately the bar is pretty low due to our friend Keith, it’s encouraging with the training facilities, the improvements to field mill, attendances general feeling of the club, folk should be delighted.

Taking that aspect away and focusing on one season, pay for promotion and you expect it - they did last season and didn’t get it, would be a kick in the teeth this season if not delivered.

Agree either way that he should be here next season, hopefully in league 1. It remains that the season would still be a failure - even in relative terms - on the pitch if we don’t go up.

That we’ve been in the top 7 all season and could still see not going up as a failure actually shows how far the club has come -

We’ve a great chance starting in the sun tomorrow, come on boys!

[MTFCMusings]

I don't agree when people say teams with no threat of relegation or promotion have nothing to play for. For one, most players will be playing for a contract at their respective club next year. Two, they are playing with absolutely no pressure and that is often when players perform best.

[Mr Grimsdale]

I don't agree when people say teams with no threat of relegation or promotion have nothing to play for. For one, most players will be playing for a contract at their respective club next year. Two, they are playing with absolutely no pressure and that is often when players perform best.

On reflection I should have clarified my opinion on the point about nothing to play for there is the next seasons contract factor, these teams however when pressured and got on top of do refer type, and lose a bit of interest. We need to ensure they are swept aside

[JLStag]

It would be interesting to see what sort of budget we get next season should we not get promoted (for the record i think we'll sneak third) as JR has pumped a fair bit of money in to the last couple of seasons.

[Sedgwick]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

We have a promotion budget, therefore promotion should be delivered, otherwise it would be a failure. It’s pretty simple really. I’m not sure JR would see a promotion budget and another league 2 campaign next season as a success...

Previously we wouldn’t have had that budget so playoffs etc would be a bonus, this isn’t the case here, especially after last season for a combination of reasons.

We should keep DF either way, though I’m sure promotion will be ours anyway

Fully agree with Rob...

A promotion budget doesn't guarantee anything, its just a number of dosh you've had to spend.Its pretty simple really you know? Do you think Accrington had a promotion budget? it doesn't mean anything, look at county.

[adamstag]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

We have a promotion budget, therefore promotion should be delivered, otherwise it would be a failure. It’s pretty simple really. I’m not sure JR would see a promotion budget and another league 2 campaign next season as a success...

Previously we wouldn’t have had that budget so playoffs etc would be a bonus, this isn’t the case here, especially after last season for a combination of reasons.

We should keep DF either way, though I’m sure promotion will be ours anyway

Fully agree with Rob...

A promotion budget doesn't guarantee anything, its just a number of dosh you've had to spend.Its pretty simple really you know? Do you think Accrington had a promotion budget? it doesn't mean anything, look at county.

You are right - it's pretty simple.

If a chairman gives a promotion budget, he (or she) should be looking to get a decent return on that - which is why if it's not achieved 2 seasons in a row hes entitled to be miffed - thats not aimed at DF - he can't be blamed for last season - just in general. DF should be here next season regardless

Of course it doesn't guarantee anything - but it's a fair thing for JR to expect after 2 seasons at it. I personally think we will go up - the football has been great in general but ultimately its points on the board not style of play. I think we can be a cracking success in league 1 if we manage to go up this term

If we don't go up I'd be interested to see if JR saw that as a "success on the field" - as I bet you he wouldn't

As you say, all pretty simple.

[Tippy Tappy Football]

If we do not go up this season then it will be a failure based on the playing budget and support that DF has been given. However there would be no point in changing the manager again and I would give DF another go next season and review things around November time.

One thing I would be concerned about is that a lot of our fans were prepared to give DF some leeway at the start of the season as they enjoyed watching our new style of play. However this has dropped off a bit since the New Year so some fans may become more impatient. This will also happen if we become too defensive as Adam Murray discovered.

[MTFCMusings]

If we don’t go up we should keep DF

However, if we didn’t go up it would be a massive failure and don’t let anyone kid you otherwise....

No it wouldn't. Massive failure is Notts County, with a similar if not larger wage budget than us. For us top 7 for me was essential and so will be viewed by those fairly level headed as a decent season (sadly I don't include you in that Adam ). The hysterical bunch, of which you are a founder member (see the various match threads for evidence!) will say it was a failure and they were right all along when they wanted the manager sacked after 12 games. It would be a huge disappointment if we do not make top 3, but as Gazza says, we are better than we were last season and at last have stability, a manager most fans like and of course the football has generally been better than in a very, very long time. We have also made a more substantial challenge in the top 3 than we did under Evans.

It's about perspective, most on here have it, we have been fans a long, long time - some just don't and will contend that if we don't go up, we sack DF and start all over again - at least you have now decided that would be pure stupidity so perhaps we are getting somewhere

In terms of MTFC I have always been and always will be a glass half full type, I expect disaster and usually am not disappointed. Even under a great owner and a manager getting us playing the football I want to watch, I can still see us finishing 4th and losing in the play-off semi's!

We have a promotion budget, therefore promotion should be delivered, otherwise it would be a failure. It’s pretty simple really. I’m not sure JR would see a promotion budget and another league 2 campaign next season as a success...

Previously we wouldn’t have had that budget so playoffs etc would be a bonus, this isn’t the case here, especially after last season for a combination of reasons.

We should keep DF either way, though I’m sure promotion will be ours anyway

Fully agree with Rob...

A promotion budget doesn't guarantee anything, its just a number of dosh you've had to spend.Its pretty simple really you know? Do you think Accrington had a promotion budget? it doesn't mean anything, look at county.

You make no sense Sedgwick. Of course money is no guarantee of success, but a competent manager would be able to match the expectations of the budget. A good or very good manager outperforms expectations, a poor manager falls short of the expectations. It's that simple.

[EdwinstoweStag]

3 games. 3 wins. Won’t need to win at MK

[MutinyOnTheCounty]

If we do not go up this season then it will be a failure based on the playing budget and support that DF has been given. However there would be no point in changing the manager again and I would give DF another go next season and review things around November time.

One thing I would be concerned about is that a lot of our fans were prepared to give DF some leeway at the start of the season as they enjoyed watching our new style of play. However this has dropped off a bit since the New Year so some fans may become more impatient. This will also happen if we become too defensive as Adam Murray discovered.

Budget only tells half the story at best.

I'm sure other teams have suffered too, but doubt they've had 4 of their biggest wage players draining the coffers dry for no return (Mirfs, Diamond, Ando & Butcher). Also doubt they've had 2 key players injured for half the season (Bobby & Hayden) & a fundamental strike option go missing (Davies).

Yeah we invested heavily in the transfer window, but again, paying up contracts probably bled some funds away.

No way have we had a top 3 budget to spend freely, more like top 7(ish). Based on that I think DF has amply achieved his remit, so far

[Rob]

If we do not go up this season then it will be a failure based on the playing budget and support that DF has been given. However there would be no point in changing the manager again and I would give DF another go next season and review things around November time.

One thing I would be concerned about is that a lot of our fans were prepared to give DF some leeway at the start of the season as they enjoyed watching our new style of play. However this has dropped off a bit since the New Year so some fans may become more impatient. This will also happen if we become too defensive as Adam Murray discovered.

Budget only tells half the story at best.

I'm sure other teams have suffered too, but doubt they've had 4 of their biggest wage players draining the coffers dry for no return (Mirfs, Diamond, Ando & Butcher). Also doubt they've had 2 key players injured for half the season (Bobby & Hayden) & a fundamental strike option go missing (Davies).

Yeah we invested heavily in the transfer window, but again, paying up contracts probably bled some funds away.

No way have we had a top 3 budget to spend freely, more like top 7(ish). Based on that I think DF has amply achieved his remit, so far

Those arguing it would be a failure are those who wanted DF sacked after 12 games, it's hardly a surprise they are saying we are a failure if we don't go up and that they think we have a top 3 budget (which we may or may not have). They cannot see the bigger picture based on a predisposition of not rating the manager.

Excellent entertainment again yesterday, didn't hear any impatience Darren, none whatsoever and as for being defensive, I mean come on

[Marky Mark]

Whether you are a DF supporter or not, and I believe a huge percentage of the support is, (the nay sayers don't appear to be many in number to me ) the disappointment, if there is any in a season where we have been around the top 6 has been the complete inability to put away teams in the bottom, mid table areas without on some occasions having a shot at goal. Coupled with the huge amount of draws early on in the season, the level of performance in some of these games has been frustrating.
We have Morecambe on Friday at home, another team with nothing to play for, we should be all over them like a rash. No excuses.
I want DF to succeed I think he should be in charge next season, but we have right now despite some hiccups a golden chance to get up, they should seize this opportunity and put away the likes of the opposition we face tomorrow. The inspiration must come from him.

We've got 27 out of a possible 30 points at home against the current bottom 10, and Won 2, drawn 6 and lost 2 away against the bottom 10 away from home - 12 points away,so the away record could be better. 39 points out of 60

Lincoln are the opposite - their away record against the bottom 10 is Won 8, drawn 2, so 26 points v's our 10. Their home record is poorer though: Won 4, drawn 5, lost 1 - 17 points v's our 27. 43 points out of 60.

Bury have won 6, drawn 1 and lost 1 against the current bottom 10 (still have 2 to play) - 19 points. Their away record is similar with Won 3, drawn 5, lost 2 - 14 points. 33 points with 2 to play.

Mk have Won 8 and drawn 1 against the bottom 10 (1 left to play) - 25 points. Their away record is Won 5, drawn 2, lost 3, so 17 points. So they already have 42 points with 1 to play.

Conversely we are the only team in the Top 6 unbeaten against the other teams in the Top 6 - Won 3, drawn 6 - 15 points, Lincoln have Won 5, drawn 3 and lost 1 - 18 points, MK have Won 2, drawn 3 and lost 4 - 9 points, Bury won 3, drawn 3, lost 3 - 12 points, Tranny Won 2, drawn 2, lost 4 - 8 points, FGR Won 2, drawn 3, lost 5 - 7 points. Good omens for MK away